[Kevin]

Originally Posted by boondocksaint

A lot of people just don't care. Some would rather not participate publicly, but you so much as told them their vote would be deleted unless they answered in this thread.

Another group thinks that it doesn't matter what they think - specifically some GD owners. Like it or not, this comes off (to some) looking like the 08 will get whatever treatment is asked for. That this basically originated in the 08 forums, and the current poll status, will have some people believing, "Oh well. Guess my measly vote won't change anything."

I can see how this would all appear like kowtowing to the new kid on the block. If you want to get more votes, drop a PM to the entire membership and ask them to make a choice, just as you did in the thread. I'll wager you get quite a few more opinions.

If they don't reply, their vote is really not instructive without the reasons behind it. For a specific period of time, this thread received more attention in this forum than any other forum, which means it gets bumped in the new posts search more and as a result brings in more GD owners than having the thread in another forum.

I can't exactly send out a PM to all members without risking our IP address being banned from all major email hosts because a mass PM would equal a massive amount of outgoing emails. This would be interpreted as SPAM and few hosts go beyond the sheer quantity to leearn whether their customer approved those emails being sent to them. In the past, this has happened and it took forever to get lifted from the black list and put back on the white list.

If we let GD owners decide the results as of today, they would say that the GR model deserves some technical forums exclusive to the GR model. Still, some is not all and there is a lot of information that can be discerned from people's replies. The decision has not been made to do anything yet and is still wide open.

If people link to this thread in their signatures, that will be the best form of exposure for this thread. If you or anybody else links to it in their signature, then they will be silently saying that they think this is an important issue for IWSTI and that they feel other members should chime in on.

[Gondy]

1) Do you currently own an Impreza? yes
2) If so, what year and how long have you owned it? 07 sti, 1 year
3) What other Subarus do you own or have you owned in the past? N/A

As long as we are able to search using the chassis code I vote for #1. Reason being it is more conducive to learning and easier for searching. If all the technical stuff is in one place, it would be hard to miss something. For example, I rarely am in the 08 technical forum (for obvious reasons), but I'm sure there is plenty of useful information there that can apply to me but I haven't seen it because of its segregation. This example probably applies to the GR guys more since there is more information in the GD section but since its not directly related to their cars they might pass over something that might be useful to them.

[torquemada]

Originally Posted by boondocksaint

A lot of people just don't care. Some would rather not participate publicly, but you so much as told them their vote would be deleted unless they answered in this thread.

Another group thinks that it doesn't matter what they think - specifically some GD owners. Like it or not, this comes off (to some) looking like the 08 will get whatever treatment is asked for. That this basically originated in the 08 forums, and the current poll status, will have some people believing, "Oh well. Guess my measly vote won't change anything."

I agree 100 %

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by torquemada

I agree 100 %

Unfortunately, pleasing 100% of the people 100% of the time. Watch, I will move this to the general forum and you can be your own judge.

[boondocksaint]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Unfortunately, pleasing 100% of the people 100% of the time. Watch, I will move this to the general forum and you can be your own judge.

That's not the point. The point is that some people don't care, or would rather just vote and be done with it (and can't). We're not trying to please 100% of the people, we're tying to tell you that we don't think this thread is a fair indicator of opinion for the reasons I outlined. It doesn't matter where it is *now*. We're beyond that.

Had there been separate (identical) threads in each forum from the start, you could have discerned quite a lot from the results. I could probably have predicted them with relative accuracy. One superball of a thread isn't going to do that. Of course, I'm sure it would have been nice had I thought of this all sooner.

That said, I'm beginning to not care myself. Do as you will.

[Kevin]

This isn't about what I want. Its about whats in the forum's best interests. If people just want to vote and be done, then they don't care enough IMO. The vote is important, but the reasons behind it are so much more important IMO.

Unfortunately, being the admin and leader of this site, I find that my job gets more difficult each day. Just when I think we get over a large hurdle another one comes up. The upside is that I have gained a lot of experience and find that most of the decisions we have made up to this date have been the right decisions.

Many of those were born out of people posting, voting, replying to the point of exhaustion. Many of those that participated gave a lot more thought to something than those that just voted. Frequently, some of those that participated to the exhaustion point would ultimately change their mind as a direct result of the back and forth that took place IN THE THREAD FROM OTHERS REPLYING WITH REASONS. Of course, the discourse would seemingly go on forever but those that continue to track/reply to the discussion are the ones that are truly informed and whose votes should be given the most credit IMO.

If everything turned on a vote without requiring some discussion, then this forum would be upside down.

[boondocksaint]

Originally Posted by Kevin

This isn't about what I want. Its about whats in the forum's best interests. If people just want to vote and be done, then they don't care enough. The vote is important the reasons behind it are so much more important in my opinion.

Unfortunately, being the admin and leader of this site, I find that my job gets more difficult each day. Just when I think we get over a large hurdle another one comes up. The upside is that I have gained a lot of experience and find that most of the decisions we have made up to this date have been the right decisions.

Many of those were born out of people posting, voting, replying to the point of exhaustion. Many of those that participated gave a lot more thought to something than those that just voted. Frequently, they changed their votes as the result of the back and forth discussion that seemingly would go on forever.

If we are at that point then we are at that point.

[useless rant]
Now we're putting a measuring tape to how much people care? Then why not dedicate the poll to donating members only? They care the most, right?
[/useless rant]

Not trying to make the job harder. I'm on your side. I do not disagree with the intent at all, but with the method. C'est la vie. Water under the bridge, etc. I'll still be here to help the forum regardless of the outcome. It's still my second home.

[Icculus]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Unfortunately, being the admin and leader of this site, I find that my job gets more difficult each day. Just when I think we get over a large hurdle another one comes up. The upside is that I have gained a lot of experience and find that most of the decisions we have made up to this date have been the right decisions.

Originally Posted by boondocksaint

I'll still be here to help the forum regardless of the outcome. It's still my second home.

And we do appreciate all you both do looking out for the best interests of the site and all the time you put in.

As far as member/voter response/turnout goes...just remember that only 55.3% voted in the last presidential election and that was for the leader of the country

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by boondocksaint

[useless rant]
Now we're putting a measuring tape to how much people care? Then why not dedicate the poll to donating members only? They care the most, right?
[/useless rant]

If I did that, I think a few mods who are not donating members would be offended since they put their heart and soul into helping to maintain a positive community.

Still, your point is well taken.

[markuga]

This is actually my first thread on here I think... I have been trolling for a while now though.

1) Do you currently own an Impreza? Yes
2) If so, what year and how long have you owned it? '08 little more than a month only.
3) What other Subarus do you own or have you owned in the past? This is the first.

I voted option 3 and weighed in because as a previous owner of an Audi A4 a few years back I remember the confusion when the 2002? (Think that was the new year maybe 2003) A4 came out when it came down to the technical side of things on the audiworld forums. Even between 1999.5 and 2001 there were a few differences that confused people, and I believe its just a bit easier on everyone to keep at least the technical information seperated.

[upncummr]

-----

[fourseasonsandles]

1) Do you currently own an Impreza? Yes
2) If so, what year and how long have you owned it? 2006 STI, 2 years 5 months
3) What other Subarus do you own or have you owned in the past? None, this is my first and only

I voted #3. The separation of the technical information can only make it easier to search for answers for both the GD and GR. I am rarely in the GR tech sections unless it is something that pertains my interest and I came across by using the "new posts" button. Even at those times I rarely post there, but just read. I dont have anything to add unless it is a general opinion on a part like the sound of an exhaust. I do not know the intimate details of the GR and dont feel I have the knowledge to really offer any valuable information unless it pertains to all STIs in general.

[neverendingmods]

1-Yes
2-2006 STi, owned new since Nov.06
3-Previous 06STi for 2mos(lemon) and 2002 WRX purchased in oct. 01.


As much as I would like to see one section for all years STi, option #1. There is too much of a difference in the GD to GR series. Especially to the new GR owners whom many are stepping into the Subie realm for the 1st time. Keeping the two series seperated, I think, would keep people from getting into pissing matches about "search" and "been covered" comments. I think as long as both series owners can still troll and send links to threads, I'm all for option #3.

[MikeO]

1. Yes
2. 2005 STI, owned for 13.5 months now
3. No previous subarus (but i plan on more eventually)

I tried to read as much of this thread as i could before coming to a final decision on my answer. Like i though, my answer didn't change after getting through the last 11 pages. I vote option #3.

Like a lot of people have said, simplicity is almost always the best route to take. In this instance i agree.

I think the easiest way to go about this is with option #3. For the new comers on this forum who just picked up the 08 and want to know how it works, they can go straight to the brand new 08 section. For the members who are already here and have a GD, they can continue to use the GD sections. Personally i will probably never go into the 08 section as i don't own one, and don't really feel the need to know everything that differs and that has changed about them. I think a lot of people feel that way that don't plan on moving on from their GD any time soon.

On a similar note, i think that many of the new 08 owners might not care about the GD series as much if this is their first STI and only want to know about their 08. If they want to know about previous generations (which i'm sure MANY will, but not all) they can go to the GD series forums and do the same reading we all have done.

By keeping the two series separate in their own sections everyone will know EXACTLY where to look. That way when you search for something you won't get mixed answers if everything is combined. I really think it's ridiculous to say it would be easier to have 1 section with combined GR and GD threads separated by a title because you will definitely still get mix ups in searches and a lot more of unwanted and unneeded congestion. I mean how hard is it to collapse the GR series sections if you'll never use them, or simple scroll down 2 more clicks. It's not like have a longer forum list is really adding work, it just takes every new comer about .2 seconds longer to read and navigate everything (even if you want to call it "too long" a list or "overwhelming").

That's all i have on my vote. I'm glad to see Kevin and Boony's discussion in this, definitely good to see people who really care about the forum. And i must say i know your situation guys, i used to run my own forum somewhat successfully and sometimes decisions can be hard. I think you all are doing a great job!

Mike

[MikeO]

Oh and also who ever mentioned at the beginning of this thread that this is an STI forum and we shouldn't separate info from any of the STI's.... i originally agreed. But after thinking about it not only would it create unneeded congestion, i really don't think that's necessary. Even if the GR gets it's own forum this still is an STI forum and it's really not that much of a separation.

And lastly, has anyone thought about another 1, 2 or 3 years down the line when they come out with the 09 STI, the 2010, 11 models? They made a big change to the GR series chassis etc, and i don't think they're going to make a big change back. If you start the separate sections now, it will get built upon down the road. I know by separating the series now might seem like putting the 08 on a pedestal (or even casting it out?) because it's the only year, but soon it won't be alone anymore. By then it will be good to have an established base of knowledge separate from the much different GD series.