[Cr8zyJAP07]

what about the master cylinder brace? does it increase the brake feel?

[Flycaster]

Originally Posted by mgsm666

pedal feel: fluid

You can feel the difference in fluid make? Whoa, you have a sensitive foot, amigo!

[evilSTi7]

Originally Posted by Flycaster

You can feel the difference in fluid make? Whoa, you have a sensitive foot, amigo!

yea i don't think pedal feel is dependent on brake fluid. SS lines and the master cylinder/brace would make the biggest difference.

[MGizzle]

Look at it this way. You have an ABS unit that is calibrated hence changing anything aside of the time to lock up your brakes could actually hurt your distance. Hence, pads and better rotors are the only thing in my opinion that will help your distance. Here is why.

Better pads and rotors will cause you to lock up faster. Locking up faster means your ABS will kick in sooner and so will reduce your distance. Belive me, not even Schumi can brake faster and better than an ABS unit.

Now, you might say "bigger calipers will help me lock up faster". Yes, but only if you have the right pads and rotors. Bigger calipers however can mess you up because your inertia (bigger rotors) has changed now and your ABS lock up might be too short or too long, reducing your distance. Again, calibration of the ABS unit is important and everything effects it but friction. Finally on the caliper subject, you shouldn't buy them to get shorter distances but to have the same distance more consistently. Bigger brakes handle heat better hence consistency is better and distance is not your worry.

All of the things you have listed there are good upgrades and some of them seem to be common sense but if you confus the ABS unit you would be surprised of the results. Go read some tuner shoot outs vs. stock (motor trend had one on the Z06 and sport compact one on the WRX when it came out) and you will notice that almost none of the tuners stops better than the stock car even though they have a lot better components on them. Calibration is key. You mess with parameters that effect that and you can cause longer distances.

[Flycaster]

Originally Posted by MGizzle

...Go read some tuner shoot outs vs. stock (motor trend had one on the Z06 and sport compact one on the WRX when it came out) and you will notice that almost none of the tuners stops better than the stock car even though they have a lot better components on them. Calibration is key. You mess with parameters that effect that and you can cause longer distances.

That's pretty standard (see the latest C&D test), and I don't think it's a calibration issue. Track cars use much harder pad material that is rated for a lot more heat - if they are cold, as is the case in the standard "stopping distance" tests, those pads don't perform well at all. OTOH, once those track pads warm up, you have big time grip. (this is one of the reasons why true track pads are not such a good idea for a street car, and vice-versa.)

Sorry for the off-topic tangent.

[idrivearocket]

Originally Posted by evilSTi7

yea i don't think pedal feel is dependent on brake fluid. SS lines and the master cylinder/brace would make the biggest difference.

If you use rbf600 or race equivalent and leave it in your car for over 1 year, you will have lots of brake fade after a couple laps. Normal Dot 4 fluid doesn't need to be changed so often, but it can not tolerate the heat generated by lapping days to achieve good feel. ON the other hand, race fluid tolerates the heat very well, but must be changed at least once a year otherwise you will also experience significant brake fade.

[nautique196]

Originally Posted by MGizzle

Look at it this way. You have an ABS unit that is calibrated hence changing anything aside of the time to lock up your brakes could actually hurt your distance. Hence, pads and better rotors are the only thing in my opinion that will help your distance. Here is why.

Better pads and rotors will cause you to lock up faster. Locking up faster means your ABS will kick in sooner and so will reduce your distance. Belive me, not even Schumi can brake faster and better than an ABS unit.

Now, you might say "bigger calipers will help me lock up faster". Yes, but only if you have the right pads and rotors. Bigger calipers however can mess you up because your inertia (bigger rotors) has changed now and your ABS lock up might be too short or too long, reducing your distance. Again, calibration of the ABS unit is important and everything effects it but friction. Finally on the caliper subject, you shouldn't buy them to get shorter distances but to have the same distance more consistently. Bigger brakes handle heat better hence consistency is better and distance is not your worry.

All of the things you have listed there are good upgrades and some of them seem to be common sense but if you confus the ABS unit you would be surprised of the results. Go read some tuner shoot outs vs. stock (motor trend had one on the Z06 and sport compact one on the WRX when it came out) and you will notice that almost none of the tuners stops better than the stock car even though they have a lot better components on them. Calibration is key. You mess with parameters that effect that and you can cause longer distances.

wow completely wrong. tires are the limit to your braking ability. Your ABS unit prevents you from locking up and sliding out of control by "un-applying" the brakes. the more you can keep from locking up the less your ABS has to "un-apply" the brakes, therefor better stopping distance. In your case I should put bald donuts on my car to make them lock up quicker so the ABS can take over and stop me quicker than if i had 10" slicks all around.

[MGizzle]

I assure I am not wrong. I am an ABS engieer and see this daily on test cars. His question was "better tires" not "worst tires". I answered with that in mind. Better tires will be harder to lock up hence why your brakes go to crap when you put R compounds on there. Go put on some Hoosier slicks and see if your brembos will lock up after 5 laps. No point in putting on better tires if you don't have enough friction or brake output to lock them up or provide "ideal" slip.

Your ABS is calibrated to give you anywhere from 15-30% slip on your tires. That is considered ideal for most tires. Hence when you are in ABS mode your are experiencing the best grip your tire can give you. But wait a minute, how does the ABS know what the tires limit is?!?!?! Calibration. Hence why chaning your tires drastically can have a huge effect. We calibrate units for various tires and simillar specificatios (tire wear, dimensions etc.). Betterd pads and rotors are the best pick if everything else is equal. Tires in my opinion are not. What better street tire aside of the RE070's can you get anyway???

Again, common sense can be tricky when it comes to chassis controls.

[Thejoyofdriving]

Originally Posted by MGizzle

I assure I am not wrong. I am an ABS engieer and see this daily on test cars. His question was "better tires" not "worst tires". I answered with that in mind. Better tires will be harder to lock up hence why your brakes go to crap when you put R compounds on there. Go put on some Hoosier slicks and see if your brembos will lock up after 5 laps. No point in putting on better tires if you don't have enough friction or brake output to lock them up or provide "ideal" slip.

Your ABS is calibrated to give you anywhere from 15-30% slip on your tires. That is considered ideal for most tires. Hence when you are in ABS mode your are experiencing the best grip your tire can give you. But wait a minute, how does the ABS know what the tires limit is?!?!?! Calibration. Hence why chaning your tires drastically can have a huge effect. We calibrate units for various tires and simillar specificatios (tire wear, dimensions etc.). Betterd pads and rotors are the best pick if everything else is equal. Tires in my opinion are not. What better street tire aside of the RE070's can you get anyway???

Again, common sense can be tricky when it comes to chassis controls.

Now, i am just in high school physics, but, isnt the force of static friction 20% or so higher than the force of kinetic friction? If so, it would be better to not allow the tires to go in to kinetic friction (i.e. slipping) and hold them right before the limit of adhesion to take advantage of the higher coefficient of static friction? And what better street tires can i get than the RE070? I dont mean to make fun of you, but...the options are endless.....Nitto's, Bridge stone RE-01R's, Falken RT-615's, falken FK452's, etc. the list goes on forever.

[idrivearocket]

Originally Posted by Thejoyofdriving

Now, i am just in high school physics, but, isnt the force of static friction 20% or so higher than the force of kinetic friction? If so, it would be better to not allow the tires to go in to kinetic friction (i.e. slipping) and hold them right before the limit of adhesion to take advantage of the higher coefficient of static friction? And what better street tires can i get than the RE070? I dont mean to make fun of you, but...the options are endless.....Nitto's, Bridge stone RE-01R's, Falken RT-615's, falken FK452's, etc. the list goes on forever.

Do ABS systems really wait until tires are sliding before the system kicks in???

I have driven many cars that felt like the ABS was kicking in way before the tires were going to slip. How many times have you done the ABS clickidy click all the way to the red light when you were sure your own pedal feel could have stopped the car faster...