[modaddict]

Well, I cut/paste from my gallery thread but here's my reivew. You can see all of the install pics. Please check it out....it's in my signature....

First, let me start off with a review of the Perrin vs. Crawford rotated kits:
The Perrin kit works. Period. It is an inexpensive way to get an ok amount of power while sacrificing some drive ability in cases. These two kits accomplish the same thing, in a very different way.

The bottom line is that the Perrin kit has QC issues. The Crawford kit was honestly......perfect.......as far as fitment QC issues......there's NONE. You know how I know? My EVO2 exhaust sat waaaay crooked with the Perrin kit. (I thought the catback was bent wrong!) With the Crawford kit....it is now even!

During the Perrin kit install, it was obvious to me that it could not get done by myself.....as far as *MY* rotated kit. I obtained the help from one of my good buddies. I had ALOT of trouble with getting the waste gate on, with the Perrin kit, where the valve seat comes together at the v-band....it didn't really fit correctly, but I was able to get it on there after a good amount of struggle. (I actually had to apply air to the valve because the surface for the valve seat where the seat sits....seemed to shallow.....if you installed a kit, you know what Im talking about)

Installing the Crawford kit, Chris from Crawford told me the waste gate was the hardest part . Chris, you've never installed a Perrin kit. :lol The waste gate slid right in....downpipe fit PERFECT. i did EVERYTHING myself as far as all the install....I did have a friend help me cut the bumper and install the injectors and fmic tubing.

In my eyes, here's the advantages of the Crawford kit...and you can see in the pics:

Pros:
-EVERYTHING is jet-hot coated....even the turbo bracket!
-bellows in the up-pipe and downpipe!
-the turbo bracket is VERY nice.
-CAI
-newer GT exhaust housing
-comes with intercooler piping for their fmic....or I believe the APS unit also AND it's ALUMINUM!
-larger air filter than the perrin kit....plus it's a K&N vs. foam
-Oil Drain is ACTUALLY A BENT MEAL TUBE THAT FITS JUST LIKE OEM!!!!
-welds are on the INSIDE of the pipes....not the traditional outside like the cheaper way of doing it
-It's the little things such as the downpipe hanger, or using the OEM oil drain.....or the metal welded nipples on the intake.....or the nice oil restictor instead of the little "drop in pills", or the CP engraving on the intake maf housing....
-no more hitting the crossmember with the downpipe....there's PLENTY of clearance

Pros of the Perrin kit:
-cost
-it does work

Con's of the Crawford kit:
-IMO the o2 sensor bung needs to be at a more upward angle instead of straight out the side

con's of the Perrin kit:
-lol....the fitment in general. It was bent wrong, period. My downpipe hit my crossmember
-smaller foam air filter....I never liked it compared to an actual oil bathed paper filter
-no bellows in any of the pipes
-oil drain is a crazy concauction....you better not get that kinked at all....or you" ll have blue smoke out the exhaust! (turbo seals...ask flycaster)
-THE INTAKE!. It's subpar, and that IS the bottom line. There's only a few tuners in the country that are good enough to make it idle correctly. Luckily I had PDX and they deal directly with Perrin and have the competence.
-The outdated turbine housing. Although I don't know of any real testing, WHY would garrett make another one? Some famous tuners like the newer housing and claim various power/spool gains.
-no turbo bracket for support. although there's no bellows so you done HAVE to have one.....you're asking for welds to break
-flanges welded on the outside


I really wish we could put the GT housing vs. T31 housing debate....to bed. It would be nice to have conclusive evidence either way.




After being through both kits, both companies and various setups, it is IMO that Crawfords motto is the KISS principal:

Keep It Simple Stupid.

It seems as though they went OEM whenever possible....or copied the OEM designing when incorporating that into the hardware.

here is a slight review from 30r to 35r:

Ok peeps, 35r vs 30r. I have about 20 miles driven on the 35r combo.

ummm.....wow!? My buddy laughed his head off because the car pulls so well. I used DeltaDash to datalog, but I am still kinda breaking in the "new" to make sure I didn't forget nothing. I logged ZERO knock....knocklite never went off either......A+. There is a difference in lag.....less than what I thought there was going to be....but the car just bangs off the rev limiter . I hit 7k ALOT (limiter needs adjusting to 7500) . I was shocked that there isn't an instant hit....actually in all honesty...it's more smooth than the 30r......I think it's because of the stock boost control system im using instead of the DTEC i had? :

The turbo sound is completely changed....the 30r sounds like a jet turbine....with the 35r, this is not as much....more of an air rushing noise....not as high pitched. Frankly, I liked that jet turbine noise of the 30r. But hell....I've only driven 20 miles.


p.s...I need to find the pics showing my uber crooked evo2 exhaust from the perrin kit:

old turbo location:







New turbo from side angle:






old parts on the floor:



New parts on the floor:





Perrin intake I questioned Jeff Perrin about....he said it was ok...but I didn't like it. i had to cut it with a razor blade to clean it up

[modaddict]

old engine bay:




New engine bay:





or anyone who cares to see the turbine housing difference from the outside:

[Muffnbluff]

Any more pics of the FMIC piping? It looks like it takes a slightly shorter route than the APS piping...and that looks like a DR525 just with I-Speed painted on.

[337drew]

I always judge a company by their customer service, quality of products and their community relationship. These guys seem to excel in all areas. Crawford appears to have a very high quality kit. I've spoken with several of their employees and they defiantly know their stuff. They didn't try to oversell products to me when I was simply inquiring about this kit. I'm also very impressed with the remote tuning services they provide. Love their unique "shortest path" intercooler piping and love how they recognize that a BPV/BOV isn't necessary with these kits.

Now if I can only decide on which housing... =D

[Flycaster]

Originally Posted by 337drew

...love how they recognize that a BPV/BOV isn't necessary with these kits...

No, no, no. The positive charge pipe pressure is vented somewhere, trust me. The turbo wouldn't last a week without it.

[modaddict]

Originally Posted by Muffnbluff

Any more pics of the FMIC piping? It looks like it takes a slightly shorter route than the APS piping...and that looks like a DR525 just with I-Speed painted on.

The fmic is a Genuine Crawford Performance designed fmic. The thing that it shares in common with the APSDR725 is the end-tank shape....that's it. This fmic is .5" thicker than the APS DR725 (making it the biggest on the market that I know of) and i'm not sure about the LXH differences (I believe its the same). here's some pics you asked for.

[modaddict]

Originally Posted by Flycaster

No, no, no. The positive charge pipe pressure is vented somewhere, trust me. The turbo wouldn't last a week without it.

You better tell that to Quirt who's been running no BPV on their racecar for 2 years.....(same turbo) or to the dozens of customers that they have put these kits on their cars.

Im going to email you fly.....

[Flycaster]

I've got an open mind here, but if you're going to tell me they rely on the anti-surge shroud ports in the compressor housing to take the place of primary charge pipe venting, I'll be astonished. Those ports were never designed for that purpose.

[modaddict]

Originally Posted by Flycaster

I've got an open mind here, but if you're going to tell me they rely on the anti-surge shroud ports in the compressor housing to take the place of primary charge pipe venting, I'll be astonished. Those ports were never designed for that purpose.

Go check your email! Or you can call me

AND! Do you see any anti-surge ports on my 35r? nope. I think those are a luxury since most kits don't come with them? I don't think ANY rotated kit comes with them.....I think you have to buy them from precision turbo or something....???

[Flycaster]

OK, so they just shove the pressure waves back through the turbo, huh? Wow, wow, wow. That's simply astonishing.

edit: No, I can't see the front side of the compressor in your shots

[STimo]

I thought the UR kits came with the anti-surge housing on their 35R's as well as perrins?? i was going to mention that to you as i noticed that your turbo didnt have the surge ports, and i was wondering if there was a reason why crawford chose not to use that housing, which i doubt since all it does is help the surge point, or if the turbo crawford uses in their kits is more like the GT65 kit that kingpin? uses(i dunoo if it's kingpin that uses it or another company) which is a non-ballbearing version with a couple different specs..

[CrawfordPerformance.com]

We do not use the ported housing because of the reduced compressor efficiency that comes with it, even though it has a lower cost. We prefer to spend the extra money on the more efficient compressor and turbine housings

From Garretts website;

A Ported Shroud compressor is a feature that is incorporated into the compressor housing. It functions to move the surge line further to the left by allowing some airflow to exit the wheel through the port to keep surge from occurring. This provides additional useable range and allows a larger compressor to be used for higher flow requirements without risking running the compressor into a dangerous surge condition. The presence of the ported shroud usually has a minor negative impact on compressor efficiA Ported Shroud compressor is a feature that is incorporated into the compressor housing. It functions to move the surge line further to the left by allowing some airflow to exit the wheel through the port to keep surge from occurring. This provides additional useable range and allows a larger compressor to be used for higher flow requirements without risking running the compressor into a dangerous surge condition. The presence of the ported shroud usually has a minor negative impact on compressor efficiency.



http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech103.html

[AXA]

Originally Posted by modaddict

You better tell that to Quirt who's been running no BPV on their racecar for 2 years.....(same turbo) or to the dozens of customers that they have put these kits on their cars.

Im going to email you fly.....

I am lost here... No BOV at all in this kit.... or are you talking about something...
I was about to call Crawford for a GT35 kit and intercooler setup but I need some more info on this before make my order....
I love my short block I can waite to get my hands a their turbi kits... need some amunitions to kill some evos down here.

[modaddict]

Originally Posted by AXA

I am lost here... No BOV at all in this kit.... or are you talking about something...
I was about to call Crawford for a GT35 kit and intercooler setup but I need some more info on this before make my order....
I love my short block I can waite to get my hands a their turbi kits... need some amunitions to kill some evos down here.

A Bov does not come with this kit. Nor on their intercooler piping is there a nipple for a hose.

If you must have one, it is really cheap to have whatever nipple/flange you need. Afterall, there are a few types of flanges for different BOV's that people run.

Best thing to do is call and talk to Crawford about it.

Evo's are pesky

[Muffnbluff]

Thanks for the I/C pics...exactly what I wanted to see. If I had to guess I'd say it prob knocks off about a foot from the APS piping.