Blackstone report questions

klaymon · 09-07-2006, 06:32 PM

I've had 2 Blackstone reports done on my oil and I have questions that Blackstone can't really seem to answer fully. Look at the report and look at the lead content.

On the first report it's at 126 ppm, which is sky high according to universal averages. They asked if I ran leaded fuel or used a lead additive (obviously not). I called them and they basically said it was an anomaly since it was the only element that was out of whack. Fast forward to today. The lead content is still at 51 ppm (universal average is 7 ppm). What am I seeing here? They told me if it was a bearing failure in progress I would see other elements that were high also, yet they are all low or even below average.

Any insight? Am I worrying over nothing?

**WolfPlayer** · 09-08-2006, 03:58 AM

As a side note, you had 7500 miles on the oil with the higher lead content. IMHO, for a car that *might* be seeing some heavy WOT, that is too much. The lead also dropped in your next report because you had less miles on it.

t

klaymon · 09-08-2006, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

As a side note, you had 7500 miles on the oil with the higher lead content. IMHO, for a car that *might* be seeing some heavy WOT, that is too much. The lead also dropped in your next report because you had less miles on it.

t

True. Since then I have decided to start changing out at 3,750. So, this number is nothing to worry about yet? The reason I am concerned is it's so far above the typical mark and they bring attention to it in the notes, but they seem to not really have an idea why it's like that except that they think I'm running leaded gas.

**WolfPlayer** · 09-08-2006, 06:02 AM

IMHO, seeing high lead values is an issue unless you can attribute it to something else (like leaded gas, additives, bad test, contamination, etc). The sucky part of oil reports is that when you see the high numbers for stuff like lead, tin, aluminum, and iron then usually there is nothing you can do at that point except worry. If your car is eating a bearing the report might show that but what are you going to do? Pull the motor and take it apart so you can find out for sure? Nope. Maybe if it was a race car OR if you had a lot of money to spend.

Oil reports are nice. But they suck too

t

2fas4u · 09-08-2006, 06:09 AM

Bearing failure almost always shows lead and other metals with it. Since no other values are out of bounds its hard to say if it is really a bearing failing. I know I would be worried even with the 51 ppm figure being so high compared to the reference level. There are only so many areas in the motor that lead comes from and its probably safe to assume that is not from the composition of the oil itself.

klaymon · 09-08-2006, 10:47 AM

I guess there's nothing I can do, but drive it. I do hate having the knowledge like WolfPlayer said and not really being able to do anything about it. I'll still get my reports done just to keep an eye on it and maybe it will help me anticipate or expect a problem/failure so I'm not completely surprised.

Singletrack · 09-08-2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klaymon

I guess there's nothing I can do, but drive it. I do hate having the knowledge like WolfPlayer said and not really being able to do anything about it. I'll still get my reports done just to keep an eye on it and maybe it will help me anticipate or expect a problem/failure so I'm not completely surprised.

Sounds scumbag-ish, but you could trade out of it : (

stretch · 09-08-2006, 10:59 AM

Lead comes from bearings, where else? Could your bearings be wearing extremely rapidly? Mobil1 is usually pretty thin, meaning it generally penetrates bearings better than most oils. It doesn't add up.

I know other Mobile1 UOA's are much better, but I'd still switch oils just to see what changes. You might consider letting your dealership know in advance that you anticipate a warranty repair and have documentation showing a forthcoming bearing failure. This should be a warranty repair.

You might consider getting Terry Dyson's opinion.

===

Edit: I referred this thread to a friend who knows this stuff, and he said:

Quote:

mobil1's HTHS number isn't very high
it could be shearing out of grade in the bearing

If he's right, you might trying mixing a quart of Redline oil in. "Get the Dyson analysis!" he added.

This thread has been added to my list of STI UOA's:
List of UOA's (Used Oil Analysis)- find an oil that works!

klaymon · 09-08-2006, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretch

Lead comes from bearings, where else? Could your bearings be wearing extremely rapidly? Mobil1 is usually pretty thin, meaning it generally penetrates bearings better than most oils. It doesn't add up.

I know other Mobile1 UOA's are much better, but I'd still switch oils just to see what changes. You might consider letting your dealership know in advance that you anticipate a warranty repair and have documentation showing a forthcoming bearing failure. This should be a warranty repair.

You might consider getting Terry Dyson's opinion.

Edit: a friend says:

If he's right, you might trying mixing a quart of Redline oil in. Get the Dyson analysis!

Today I've been rolling it through my mind to try a different oil just to see if there is a difference. I'm going to let this oil change ride as is and send it away at my 36,000 service. Then, I'll switch over to something else (Amsoil or Royal Purple perhaps) and see what kind of results I get on the following report.

I didn't realize they had an extra special expert on staff. Maybe on this next submission, I'll pay a little more and let him look at it.

**La Mer** · 03-23-2007, 02:28 PM

Any updates on your lead situation?

I just got my report back from Blackstone (first one for me) at 26,000 miles using M1 5W 30. Mine was high (14), but not as high as yours. I don't have much to add to help you I just want to see if you had an update.

klaymon · 03-23-2007, 03:03 PM

I quit using Blackstone because they wouldn't give me any suggestions or couldn't figure it out ("Are you using leaded gas?") Come on. I started sending mine in to Terry Dyson at www.dysonanalysis.com and he told me I have some accelerated bearing wear and gave me some suggestions. I'm trying those out and I'm going to send another sample in shortly.

**La Mer** · 03-24-2007, 08:01 PM

Interesting. I will update this thread with my next Blackstone analysis.

Do you happen to have an aftermarket crank pulley?

klaymon · 03-24-2007, 08:58 PM

Nope. All I have is a cat back. I even went back to the paper filters instead of the K&N drop in.

mtskibum16 · 03-25-2007, 11:50 AM

A little OT, but I just ordered a Blackstone test kit, and I have never had my oil tested before. Should I stick with Blackstone or try Dyson instead?

***QuickSilverSTi*** · 03-25-2007, 12:00 PM

Blackstone can do a Dyson test - the list is in the kit as well as on the website:
"Terry Dyson has more than 25 years of independent oil analysis interpretation and consultation work. At various points in his life, Terry has expanded his knowledge of oil and its properties by owning a fleet maintenance shop, participating in the ProSportsCar/IMSA Professional Road Racing Series across the United States, and serving as a hazardous waste and petroleum/lubricants officer for the US Army and Navy.

The Dyson Analysis package costs $60 and includes Blackstone's Standard Analysis and a TBN, with Terry's interpretation of the results. If you'd like a Dyson Analysis, please make a note of it on the slip when you send in the sample."

03-25-2007, 12:00 PM	#15
*QuickSilverSTi* nulla poena sine lege Car: '08 GT500 Location: Northern VA Posts: 1,758 IWSTI Addict since: Nov 2003 Trader Rating: (5)	Blackstone can do a Dyson test - the list is in the kit as well as on the website: "Terry Dyson has more than 25 years of independent oil analysis interpretation and consultation work. At various points in his life, Terry has expanded his knowledge of oil and its properties by owning a fleet maintenance shop, participating in the ProSportsCar/IMSA Professional Road Racing Series across the United States, and serving as a hazardous waste and petroleum/lubricants officer for the US Army and Navy. The Dyson Analysis package costs $60 and includes Blackstone's Standard Analysis and a TBN, with Terry's interpretation of the results. If you'd like a Dyson Analysis, please make a note of it on the slip when you send in the sample." This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

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09-08-2006, 03:58 AM	#2
WolfPlayer Moderator & ECU Tech Car: 05 CGM STI Fav Mod: mo boostaz Location: Fredneck, MD Posts: 3,716 IWSTI Addict since: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	As a side note, you had 7500 miles on the oil with the higher lead content. IMHO, for a car that might be seeing some heavy WOT, that is too much. The lead also dropped in your next report because you had less miles on it. t

09-08-2006, 06:02 AM	#4
WolfPlayer Moderator & ECU Tech Car: 05 CGM STI Fav Mod: mo boostaz Location: Fredneck, MD Posts: 3,716 IWSTI Addict since: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	IMHO, seeing high lead values is an issue unless you can attribute it to something else (like leaded gas, additives, bad test, contamination, etc). The sucky part of oil reports is that when you see the high numbers for stuff like lead, tin, aluminum, and iron then usually there is nothing you can do at that point except worry. If your car is eating a bearing the report might show that but what are you going to do? Pull the motor and take it apart so you can find out for sure? Nope. Maybe if it was a race car OR if you had a lot of money to spend. Oil reports are nice. But they suck too t

09-08-2006, 06:09 AM	#5
2fas4u Silver Member Car: 05 & 09 WRB STI Location: Manchester, Maryland Posts: 2,268 IWSTI Addict since: Aug 2005 Trader Rating: (4)	Bearing failure almost always shows lead and other metals with it. Since no other values are out of bounds its hard to say if it is really a bearing failing. I know I would be worried even with the 51 ppm figure being so high compared to the reference level. There are only so many areas in the motor that lead comes from and its probably safe to assume that is not from the composition of the oil itself.

09-08-2006, 10:47 AM	#6
klaymon S204 Racer Posts: 3,075 IWSTI Addict since: Jul 2004 Trader Rating: (1)	I guess there's nothing I can do, but drive it. I do hate having the knowledge like WolfPlayer said and not really being able to do anything about it. I'll still get my reports done just to keep an eye on it and maybe it will help me anticipate or expect a problem/failure so I'm not completely surprised.

03-23-2007, 02:28 PM	#10
La Mer NIИja Location: US - Southern California Posts: 38,252 IWSTI Addict since: Jan 2006 Trader Rating: (5)	Any updates on your lead situation? I just got my report back from Blackstone (first one for me) at 26,000 miles using M1 5W 30. Mine was high (14), but not as high as yours. I don't have much to add to help you I just want to see if you had an update.

03-23-2007, 03:03 PM	#11
klaymon S204 Racer Posts: 3,075 IWSTI Addict since: Jul 2004 Trader Rating: (1)	I quit using Blackstone because they wouldn't give me any suggestions or couldn't figure it out ("Are you using leaded gas?") Come on. I started sending mine in to Terry Dyson at www.dysonanalysis.com and he told me I have some accelerated bearing wear and gave me some suggestions. I'm trying those out and I'm going to send another sample in shortly.

03-24-2007, 08:01 PM	#12
La Mer NIИja Location: US - Southern California Posts: 38,252 IWSTI Addict since: Jan 2006 Trader Rating: (5)	Interesting. I will update this thread with my next Blackstone analysis. Do you happen to have an aftermarket crank pulley?

03-24-2007, 08:58 PM	#13
klaymon S204 Racer Posts: 3,075 IWSTI Addict since: Jul 2004 Trader Rating: (1)	Nope. All I have is a cat back. I even went back to the paper filters instead of the K&N drop in.

03-25-2007, 11:50 AM	#14
mtskibum16 Professional STI Driver Car: 05 Subaru WRX STi Location: Montana Posts: 461 IWSTI Addict since: May 2006 Trader Rating: (1)	A little OT, but I just ordered a Blackstone test kit, and I have never had my oil tested before. Should I stick with Blackstone or try Dyson instead?