[token-negro]

So how does the divided entry 35r with a .78 AR compare to the Single entry .82 housing? How does Garrett measure the divided entry to come up with the AR? Are we seeing the quicker spool because of the smaller AR of the turbo?

[Full-Race.com]

thanks for the comments guys, sorry ive been really busy lately and unable to get on the forum

Originally Posted by rxw

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO..... finally some fullrace TS35r dyno's...... ITS freaking awesome! Love the spool and power..... great chart!

Originally Posted by Illusive

no wonder why you guys did so well, thats a pretty stout powerband. looks like you're getting 300 wtq before 3500 rpms. thats pretty impressive.

thanks a lot, it took a lot of r&d and years of work to make that powerband!! the two drivers were very pleased with the driveability and just controlled but monstrous boost curve. they kept commenting about how much power this car generated but how it felt nothing like a traditional "big turbo" subaru, much more driveable and much faster

Originally Posted by shabib67

please get some in car footage especially of the dash while doing pulls.

anything in particular you want to see? what in the dash? let me know, well take some more vids

Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT

Please log MAP, and g/s (hopefully both new and old tune are very accurate in the MAF scaling dept) before and after the tune on a flat road, same elevation. Also record the temps. Please get as much before and after data, it is important!!!!!!!!!

if you make a clear list of exactly what data you want and why, we would be happy to supply some datalogs, either from the dyno or from the motec

Originally Posted by token-negro

So how does the divided entry 35r with a .78 AR compare to the Single entry .82 housing? How does Garrett measure the divided entry to come up with the AR? Are we seeing the quicker spool because of the smaller AR of the turbo?

twinscroll 35R will not work with a .78 A/R, it is just too small. the singleentry .82 will outperform the .78 becuase it is bigger.

garrett measures A/R one way only -- the area of the volute at the tongue divided by the radius of the volute at the tongue from the center of the bore.

this car uses our off-the-shelf Twinscroll 35R kit, which comes with a 1.06 a/r turbine housing

thanks for the discussion, feel free to ask any other questions, ill get back to the thread asap

[LittleBlueGT]

Originally Posted by Full-Race.com

if you make a clear list of exactly what data you want and why, we would be happy to supply some datalogs, either from the dyno or from the motec

Here is what I want, preferably from a 3071, but your bigger stuff would be OK as well.

Dyno logs are one thing, but hard to compare unless you have other logs from the same dyno, they load differently which changes boost threshold.

I would like logs on the road (level road) with the following parameters:

-rpm
-MAP
-AVCS
-g/s (only relevant if this is tuned painstakingly accurate on the high end, if not then MAF volts and then tell us which intake used)

Then we need a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear log (4th doesn't have to go beyond peak torque). Write down the following from the run:

-type of fuel
-temp
-elevation (even better log what the ECU says atmospheric pressure is)

Then of course we need to know what car, for gear ratios and what size tires. I am assuming this would be a stock geared STi w/ normally sized tires.

I know that is a lot, but it would real quickly weed through all the speculation, then I will look through my collection of others logs, and find one comparable on another turbo. Makes it very easy to compare boost threshold.

Those would be solid facts that I can take to the bank.

FWIW I would graph it all out for you to, free of charge.

[MartinSTi05]

I for one would like to see the ratio of intake manifold pressure to exhaust manifold pressure overlaid along the boost and torque curve.

[Full-Race.com]

Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT

Here is what I want, preferably from a 3071, but your bigger stuff would be OK as well.

i understand what you are trying to accomplish, but you can not focus on the minutia, you will lose sight of the big picture. Its trends that you need to be focusing on, not specific points... in my experience (please do not take this the wrong way) what you are asking for is simply unrealistic, not feasible and not worth the time required... especially considering the turbo you are asking about.

Originally Posted by MartinSTi05

I for one would like to see the ratio of intake manifold pressure to exhaust manifold pressure overlaid along the boost and torque curve.

you CAN see that ratio, in the torque curve...

[MartinSTi05]

Originally Posted by Full-Race.com

i understand what you are trying to accomplish, but you can not focus on the minutia, you will lose sight of the big picture. Its trends that you need to be focusing on, not specific points... in my experience (please do not take this the wrong way) what you are asking for is simply unrealistic, not feasible and not worth the time required... especially considering the turbo you are asking about.



you CAN see that ratio, in the torque curve...

Explain, I know you can see when it starts to get very unfavorable, IE torque drop off, but how would you know the ratio point by point throughout the curve?

[Full-Race.com]

obviously you can not see the ratio point by point, what you can see is trends. you can see what the ratio's effect is on VE by the torque drop off as you mentioned. As boost rises, tq rises. When boost levels off, tq levels off. As backpressure exceeds intake manifold pressure, tq starts to drop off. As tq starts to drop, hp begins to flatten. As backpressure increases even more, the tq falls off harder, and hp begins to fall. if tq holds flat as RPMs increase, HP skyrockets



from this graph you can see where the tq stops climbing (full boost ~4100rpm), you can see where the backpressure began to get slightly greater than intake mani pressure (tq starts to drop off around 4500rpm, once the car is tuned better and the hump is gone it will be more obvious) and then you can see where the backpressure begins to get significantly larger than intake mani pressure (hp drops off ~5600rpm). I think this has a lot to do with the cosworth cams in the car, but that will be addressed in the near future with some new camshafts.

in a "perfect" world, you would want your tq curve to be perfectly flat from when the wgs open to redline.. however this would also mean you are not using the turbo to its fullest potential, and your spool is later than it should be... its all about compromise

[modaddict]

Originally Posted by Full-Race.com

a
i really think the twinscroll t4 gt35R kit is really our "optimal" kit offering a huge powerband with 15psi by 3000rpm.. we will have more data on an almost stock engine within the next week

Originally Posted by Full-Race.com

you can see what the ratio's effect is on VE by the torque drop off as you mentioned. As boost rises, tq rises. When boost levels off, tq levels off.

from this graph you can see where the tq stops climbing (full boost ~4100rpm), you can see where the backpressure began to get slightly greater than intake mani pressure (tq starts to drop off around 4500rpm, once the car is tuned better and the hump is gone it will be more obvious)

Jeff,

for comparisons sake, here's my car. gt35r .82 T3 housing. 4th gear pull, I have 5.6psi by 3k rpms. 100% stock longblock, intake manifold, header, etc....
what I don't understand is that you hit 15psi by 3k rpms ON A 1.06 housing. that is just crazy. How is your's not a 'switch" with boost like mine?

You say you get full boost by 4100 rpms.....well....so do I. 25psi by 4147rpms logged.....I JUST checked.


You should be seeing 15psi by 3k, and 25psi by ~3500 or so. (or less).

I was tuned on a dynapack what looks to be even the same gear as you. My peak torque is about 4600. But my boost threshold is 4147. about 450srpms off of peak torque. This is very common amongst subaru's.....full boost before peak torque. Look at any dyno graph, anywhere.

How do you have peak torque, and peak boost at the same rpm? As I see it, you have about 450rpms earlier torque than me, with a bigger exhaust housing. That is a SIGNIFICANT change in V.E. CRAZY significant.

Care to expand on this?

I am just baffled that you have 15psi by 3k rpms on a 1.06 housing.
Are you 100% positive this isn't a .78A/R exhaust housing?

BTW, what gear are you claiming this to be in? I'm talking about 4th on my car.

I know it's somewhat apples vs. oranges because one's on a built motor with heads and cams and mine is stock...but we're still talking 2.5l. Head work and cams usually shift the powerband to the right. Everything on this car say's it's shifted left. I'd love to see some stock motor data.

[LittleBlueGT]

Originally Posted by Full-Race.com

i understand what you are trying to accomplish, but you can not focus on the minutia, you will lose sight of the big picture. Its trends that you need to be focusing on, not specific points... in my experience (please do not take this the wrong way) what you are asking for is simply unrealistic, not feasible and not worth the time required... especially considering the turbo you are asking about.

I know it won't tell me everything, but it will tell me a lot, and what it would tell me would be something concrete.

I can do the above in about 5 mins in my car, then another 5 for gathering the logs and e-mailing them.

I know it doesn't tell me transient response, or boost recovery after a gear change, among other things.

I really don't think the above is too much to ask.

I don't want 450 whp, I want 375. I want better then VF39 (or stock turbo'd STI) boost threshold. It will cost me a lot of money doing that with a FR set-up on a 3071. I could always just use the stock turbo, do every mod in the book (including alky) and have 330-340 whp, for a lot less.

If I was wanting higher whp I think it would be a no-brainer to go with your stuff, but I don't. I don't want to buy a 3071 TS and get 375 whp but slightly worse boost threshold then a VF39. It would still be an awesome set-up I am sure, but not what I want.

[shabib67]

Geoff i wanted steady footage of the dash particularly the rpm and mph just to see how fast this bad boy is especially with the 07 gearing.

[PSTi]

I didn't know the 1.06 housing was made in divided configuration?

[disturbed1]

is it me or do the header tubes dump into a y pipe 4-1. doesn't that work almost the same as the stock manifold. If it is a 4-1 y pipe does that mean i can get a twin scroll setup to work with out the equal length headers. i dont like the equal length sound but want the crazy spool of a twin scrolled 35r.

[Full-Race.com]

Originally Posted by PSTi

I didn't know the 1.06 housing was made in divided configuration?

that is correct, we use a T4 twinscroll 1.06 A/R for the GT35R. This is by far my favorite housing to use on the GT35R

Originally Posted by modaddict

what I don't understand is that you hit 15psi by 3k rpms ON A 1.06 housing. that is just crazy. How is your's not a 'switch" with boost like mine? You say you get full boost by 4100 rpms.....well....so do I. 25psi by 4147rpms logged.....I JUST checked. You should be seeing 15psi by 3k, and 25psi by ~3500 or so. (or less). I was tuned on a dynapack what looks to be even the same gear as you...
I am just baffled that you have 15psi by 3k rpms on a 1.06 housing.
Are you 100% positive this isn't a .78A/R exhaust housing? BTW, what gear are you claiming this to be in? I'm talking about 4th on my car.

these results are obviously very good. Dynoing was done in 4th gear on a dynapack at the tuner shootout. It was the same dyno everyone else there used, and in the sept issue of modified magazine you can see how our powerband compares to everyone elses on the same dyno and same day -- crawford, GST, etc.

The setup is very simply a 1.06 A/R T4 twinscroll turbine housing on an off-the-shelf GT3582R. Nothing special, nothing fancy, no tricks. The .78 a/r T3 twinscroll is wayyy too small/restrictive and will not properly work on a 35R IMHO. There is absolutely zero possibility that this is the .78

Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT

If I was wanting higher whp I think it would be a no-brainer to go with your stuff, but I don't. I don't want to buy a 3071 TS and get 375 whp but slightly worse boost threshold then a VF39. It would still be an awesome set-up I am sure, but not what I want.

totally understand what you are looking for. my honest advice is simply to go for a drive/ride in a full-race twinscroll equipped setup if you know anyone on the forum who has one or you live near someone. the only REAL way to understand what im trying to convey is by actually experiencing the powerband

Originally Posted by shabib67

Geoff i wanted steady footage of the dash particularly the rpm and mph just to see how fast this bad boy is especially with the 07 gearing.

ill work on it in the next 2 weeks, when we have the car back at our shop!

Originally Posted by disturbed1

is it me or do the header tubes dump into a y pipe 4-1. doesn't that work almost the same as the stock manifold. If it is a 4-1 y pipe does that mean i can get a twin scroll setup to work with out the equal length headers. i dont like the equal length sound but want the crazy spool of a twin scrolled 35r.

unfortunately you are mistaken. the stock manifold has improper cylinder pairing for twinscroll configurations and thus will not work.

our system does not have the annoying raspy exh sound you normally hear from a 4-1 equal length header. The exhaust note is much deeper and more aggressive. did you hear those youtube vids?

YouTube - FullRaceVids's Channel

[karleric]

Hey Geoff - what happened to all your Subaru product pages on the Full-Race website? I remembered them being there before.

[corey]

Called yesterday for a quote. I'm hoping to see it when I get home.