[La Mer]

I was tuned back in March of '06. I am now getting into the Tuning world via OpenECU.org. It will be a long time before I fully understand what it takes to tune my car, but if you guys wouldn't mind I'd like to get some feedback on these two Logs to find a starting point on changes that may be needed. At the tuning session I was tuned at ~90 octane due to my stupidity. I added a few gallons of 89 before I knew it. Therefore, detonation should not be an issue since I run 91 oct full time. Please take a glance, and thank you for your time. Any comments are welcome!

(hopefully enough parameters are there for you guys )

Conditions: Sunny, 85F

Performance (tunable) Mods:
APS CAI
APS Catted R1
<br>

[LOLSTi]

I'll reserve judgement untill Wolfplayer or TMS or Crystal step in. Bump.

[06stiman]

Overall your logs look pretty healthy. I'm really surprised to see that you're able to hit almost 20psi boost in 3rd gear with only a 71% WGDC and 85F deg weather. Are you running the stock solenoid? Do you have a boost controller?

But yeah, definitely Wolf and CI will have more commentary.

[La Mer]

Originally Posted by 06stiman

Overall your logs look pretty healthy. I'm really surprised to see that you're able to hit almost 20psi boost in 3rd gear with only a 71% WGDC and 85F deg weather. Are you running the stock solenoid? Do you have a boost controller?

But yeah, definitely Wolf and CI will have more commentary.

yes sir. stock BCS. the only thing done (tunable), is the CAI, Catted TBE, and colder plugs.

I just did the pulls/logs at lunch today, and as you know (you are in socal) it is a bit warm today.

[WolfPlayer]

Originally Posted by 06stiman

Overall your logs look pretty healthy. I'm really surprised to see that you're able to hit almost 20psi boost in 3rd gear with only a 71% WGDC and 85F deg weather. Are you running the stock solenoid? Do you have a boost controller?

But yeah, definitely Wolf and CI will have more commentary.

I'm not too surprised since we are talking about the midrange. I was surprised to see the tuner not crank up the DC's more towards redline in order to keep the HP up.

Overall, I think the tune looks strong. Check your DA maps. I *think* your DA maps are going to have 8d throughout the WOT areas (higher load areas). If so, that is good because the log is showing that timing is not being pulled.

People have different preferences for how much boost to run on the stock turbo. Some people run 17 psi midrange. Some run 23 psi midrange. Some take a more moderate 19-20 psi. Your third gear is pushing closer to 20psi so I imagine that a 5th gear pull will net you 21 or more. It would be interesting to see a log of that in order to check if timing is being pulled.

When you log data, try to log MAF voltage and not airflow. The airflow is arbitrary, the voltage is not. Don't log relative pressure - it is not necessary since you are logging abs and atm. For WOT I tend not to log fuel corrections because I can log other parameters like Coolant temp, injector pulse width and load (gotta have load!). Coolant temp can affect timing after 194d (pre-'07 STIs). Also log AVCS so that you can see what you are running for spoolup and how it is holding.

As far as recommendations ...
1) Wideband Data. WOT logs aren't worth a heck of a lot without wideband data.
2) If you don't have a wideband then think about the zeitronix and PLX devices because they can also log EGT.
3) Log load and compare your load values to the max load values in your tables. If the load that you log exceeds the load in your tables then you need to rescale. Do it
4) Consider experimenting with upping the boost after 5000rpms. Pay attention to your wideband. Also verify that you have enough injector! For example, I am running 18psi @ 5800 with 19.5d of timing whereas you are running around 16psi @ 5800 with 19d of timing. Your motor may or may not like this. YOU have to be the judge. Also experiment with holding more boost at redline. You are at about 14.5psi but with low WGDCs. You could probably hit 15.5 psi or so. Experiment with up to 90% WGDC values at redline. The VF39 will naturally taper because of the weak spring.

[crystal_Imprezav]

Like wolf said, the only factors you really need to log are IDC, WGDC, KC, Ignition timing, IAM, Calc load, Relative pressure (corrected psi), MAF volts. Two of the best indicators of whether or not your increasing torque and/or HP are the MAF volts and calculated load. If they go up, then you are making more, but if you are raising boost, avcs, etc. and they are not going up then essentially you are not making better VE. The less you log, the more resolution you will get meaning more data to analyze. This becomes important when you are fine tuning i.e. intake calibrations.

As for you logs, they look good but very conservative. Assuming all your KC values are set at 8 it looks like you ecu is not pulling any timing and is running healthy. Logging IDC can give you a better idea of approximate AFR's if you are without a wideband which is highly recommended. As wolf mentioned the PLX and Zeixtronics are great units but on a budget the LC-1 is the way to go and is supported by most loggers including the next release of Enginuity. On 93 octane I am running about 18* timing at 3000rpm, 20* @ 4000, and around 22-23* @ 5200 rpms (w/o meth). Raise your WGDC up top to create some more boost. Aim for around 16-17psi at 5500 rpm and 15 @ redline. This will require upper 90%'s WGDC. I found that the stock solenoid does not like to hold much more boost than 20psi mid-range and 15 at redline and bleeds off way too much even when I set WGDC to almost 100%. The Perrin EBCS I just installed works great if you are looking more better control but it will take more tuning.

Do your logs in 4th or 5th gear and start the pulls from around 2000rpm to redline. This will give you a better indicator being that the gears are closer to 1 and being able to watch boost in higher gears to make sure you are not creeping or over shooting your targets. Raise timing in the primary ignition table util your KC start to drop from 8. This will tell you when the ecu starts to hear noise indicating knock and back of the timing to the previous value to make the ecu happy again. Also VERY important is to make sure your tables are scaled properly. This will require a bit of interpolation and make sure you max load is slightly higher than max logged load for saftey. The second to last column should be approximately you max logged load. Tune you AVCS by watching the load. I like to run around 28-30* down low (rpms) to increase spool and around 18* at 4000 rpm's to help out torque. Again watch your load and if it is increasing, keep increasing your AVCS slightly until it stop increasing. Taper it down until around 4400 rpms. After that it pretty much comes down to fine tuning. This will come naturally as you learn.

[WolfPlayer]

18* timing at 3000rpm, 20* @ 4000, and around 22-23* @ 5200 rpms

To show you how weird things are with our cars, if I tried to run those timing values with the boost that I am running then my car would knock, knock, knock ... and then bust the door down (lol). I'm running 10.7:1 AFRs on 93 octane.

Now, I am talking about actual timing values and not values dialed into the map. For reference, the values dialed into my map are closer to what you are suggesting but it never runs those values (this is related to the ST thread I made about weird timing values).

t

[Toophless]

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

To show you how weird things are with our cars, if I tried to run those timing values with the boost that I am running then my car would knock, knock, knock ... and then bust the door down (lol). I'm running 10.7:1 AFRs on 93 octane.

t

Amen to that. I used to dip into the 14-15 deg area with high 10 afrs through that "high knock potential band" to stay safe.

I pleasantly found with some early runs after working with enginuity that the car felt much happier with 11.7 afrs (scary to see on the Tuna pro) through there and timing in the 12s (discovered in the log later which made me say "Ah-ha.")

Now my head is all tied up with trying to link all the Enginuity map areas together when MAF is volts to grams/second, but fuel / timing maps are in grams per revolution. Seems like I can multiply the later by the rpm range in question, then divide by 60 to get back to g/sec. But then I'm not convinced when I test the results.

Still learning. The UTEC/OpenECU combo is great though.

[La Mer]

Wow. lot's of useful info in here, and really I appreciate it! Glad to see that the car seems healthy from what you guys see in the logs.

I have a lot of learning to do. Especially with deciding whether or not to go all out and go for StreetTuner, or stick with OpenECU stuff. Maybe you guys can shed some light on this for me.

I need to research and understand these terms a lot more before I start changing anything. Especially since I'm may not even be able to use my Tuned map as a starting point (with enginuity). I was told by my tuner that I need to use the RT map on top of the Base when I reset the ECU.

Wideband is definitely on the horizon. I also have 3 (egt, boost, oil temp) on the way as soon as MadDad releases them. I saw that Wolf uses the LC-1, so I figure if Wolf uses it, it must be good . I was also thinking about grabbing the gauge/wideband package, but I've heard it's no more than a light show, although I'm not sure how... You can't always have a lap top plugged into the car.

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

I'm not too surprised since we are talking about the midrange. I was surprised to see the tuner not crank up the DC's more towards red-line in order to keep the HP up.

Overall, I think the tune looks strong. Check your DA maps. I *think* your DA maps are going to have 8d throughout the WOT areas (higher load areas). If so, that is good because the log is showing that timing is not being pulled.

By DA I think you are saying Ignition Correction in Enginuity Terms. Yes after an Engine Load of 2.00, the values are 8.09 across the table. I think the low timing is do to my use of 90 octane during the tune, when I use 91 all the time. He said he could tell I had low octane before I even told him about the fuel. I assume he was talking about the Base Timing.

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

When you log data, try to log MAF voltage and not airflow. The airflow is arbitrary, the voltage is not. Don't log relative pressure - it is not necessary since you are logging abs and atm. For WOT I tend not to log fuel corrections because I can log other parameters like Coolant temp, injector pulse width and load (gotta have load!). Coolant temp can affect timing after 194d (pre-'07 STIs). Also log AVCS so that you can see what you are running for spoolup and how it is holding.

Thank you. I wasn't TOO sure what I was missing .

Originally Posted by Crystal_Impresav

As for you logs, they look good but very conservative. Assuming all your KC values are set at 8 it looks like you ecu is not pulling any timing and is running healthy. Logging IDC can give you a better idea of approximate AFR's if you are without a wideband which is highly recommended. As wolf mentioned the PLX and Zeixtronics are great units but on a budget the LC-1 is the way to go and is supported by most loggers including the next release of Enginuity. On 93 octane I am running about 18* timing at 3000rpm, 20* @ 4000, and around 22-23* @ 5200 rpms (w/o meth). Raise your WGDC up top to create some more boost. Aim for around 16-17psi at 5500 rpm and 15 @ redline. This will require upper 90%'s WGDC. I found that the stock solenoid does not like to hold much more boost than 20psi mid-range and 15 at redline and bleeds off way too much even when I set WGDC to almost 100%. The Perrin EBCS I just installed works great if you are looking more better control but it will take more tuning.

Do your logs in 4th or 5th gear and start the pulls from around 2000rpm to redline. This will give you a better indicator being that the gears are closer to 1 and being able to watch boost in higher gears to make sure you are not creeping or over shooting your targets. Raise timing in the primary ignition table util your KC start to drop from 8. This will tell you when the ecu starts to hear noise indicating knock and back of the timing to the previous value to make the ecu happy again. Also VERY important is to make sure your tables are scaled properly. This will require a bit of interpolation and make sure you max load is slightly higher than max logged load for saftey. The second to last column should be approximately you max logged load. Tune you AVCS by watching the load. I like to run around 28-30* down low (rpms) to increase spool and around 18* at 4000 rpm's to help out torque. Again watch your load and if it is increasing, keep increasing your AVCS slightly until it stop increasing. Taper it down until around 4400 rpms. After that it pretty much comes down to fine tuning. This will come naturally as you learn.

I will definitely keep this in mind. I know it's the characteristics of the VF39, but man-o-man, if you don't step on the throttle before 5K you are not going to get that warm and fuzzy like you do when stomping on it at 3.5K. Which is so strange to me in a four cylinder! If there is 1psi left in her up top, I would love to squeeze it out.

This, again, is great info. I have absolutely no experience in this area, so for you to give me some of your experience/knowledge is HUGE help. It doesn't seem so intimidating.


Thanks guys. Consider this my first of many posts in the ECU section of IWSTI.

[WolfPlayer]

Originally Posted by La Mer

I saw that Wolf uses the LC-1, so I figure if Wolf uses it, it must be good .

LMAO. A c t u a l l y .... I have been giving great thought to selling my LC-1 in favor of the zeitronix or PLX R-500. Both units are more capable then the LC-1. However, you pay for it. The LC-1 is $199. The Zeitronix is $279. The PLX R-500 is $550. The LC-1 is purely a widband. I would also like to log EGT and pre-turbo boost pressure. The zeitronix can do this. The PLX R-500 can do it too (along with a ton of other stuff). Another option is to add the innovate LMA-3 on top of the LC-1 for the temperature and pre turbo boost pressure logging. However, that unit is $250 so for that price it might just be worth it to go with the R-500. Who knows.

The more you tune the more you want to log stuff and not have gauges. I would like to get rid of my EGT gauge and my TXS Knocklite - in favor of logging that information. I don't tune on the edge so I do NOT need access to that information all the time (and I have no desire to 'guage-ify' my car for pimpness).

t