[NorCALSpeed]

hey guys and gals. im looking into this open ecu, and my roommate might get it over an AP to go stg 2 in his new psm 06 wrx. but will the dealership be able to tell that u tuned it? i know thats a benefit of the AP u can go back to stock setting and they wont know. not sure if it would matter since they would see the turbo back but its something to worry about.

[Peleg]

No need to touch the ECU at all if he's getting an AP.

The dealership, well it depends really...some of them are more mod friendly than others. If they flash your ECU, just reflash it back with the AP.

You don't need a full turboback for stage 2, although most people will recommand it. You can get away with just a downpipe.

[NorCALSpeed]

my point though is that u can spend the money for an open tune and save the 600 bucks for an AP .it seems like the cobb stg 2 maps run alittle rich anyway and they get much much better with a protune anyway. so couldnt u just get an open tune and save a few hundred dollars? i think hes gonna go for a borla hush. i like the turbo back idea for the change in sound and a high flow cat.

[VetteVert]

Well, the dealer CAN tell if you've had an AP on the car. It doesn't store your stock map, just loads a stock "like" map when you unmarry the AP. The new AP is supposed to actually store the stock map (which contains vehicle specific info).

With the openecu, you can save your stock map...load another map, then switch back to the true stock map in the future...

VV

[2fas4u]

this has been discussed many many times in the past. First of all Subaru has no tools at the dealership to detect base map tampering. Secondly it has nothing to do with the AP "base map" really. When the map is changed a check-sum is changed indicating that the ECU has been reflashed. Even if you store the OEM basemap the check-sum will change and if they really check the ECU they will still see that a re-flash has taken place.

[VetteVert]

Originally Posted by 2fas4u

this has been discussed many many times in the past. First of all Subaru has no tools at the dealership to detect base map tampering. Secondly it has nothing to do with the AP "base map" really. When the map is changed a check-sum is changed indicating that the ECU has been reflashed. Even if you store the OEM basemap the check-sum will change and if they really check the ECU they will still see that a re-flash has taken place.

^ Good to know!!

VV

[DoubleURX]

From what I understand, the dealer would have to download the stock map from FHI, and compare it to your current map to be able to tell that you changed it to a custom map.

[WolfPlayer]

So much misinformation in this thread!

If your car contains a fully stock base map with the correct revision that matches your case ID then the dealership won't know (given everything that is known). The following comment made by 2fast for you is wrong ...

WRONG: Even if you store the OEM basemap the check-sum will change and if they really check the ECU they will still see that a re-flash has taken place

Here's what the ECU police says:

1) Using OpenECU tools will guarantee you a method of making sure the dealership cannot detect that you have flashed your ECU (given everything that is currently known about detection). Why? OpenECU (specifically ECUFlash) will allow you to pull down a full 100% copy of your base map. You store this on your hard drive and can later reflash this to your ECU before you go to the dealership. The base map contains the checksum so the checksum will be exactly what they are looking for. Cobb's approach currently does not give you a method to convert back to your original map. HOWEVER, AccessPORT 2.0 will have this ability. This is NOT a 'hit' at Cobb. Cobb's technology has been out a long time (well before ECUFlash) so it is natural that improvements have been made since then. Cobb's tools rock and were state of the art when they were released. The new v2.0 Cobb tools will take this to the next level. REALLY looking forward to those tools!

2) You can't compare OpenECU tools to an AP. One is user tuneable, one is not. This is NOT a fair comparison. OpenECU tools need to be compared to Cobb AP + StreetTUNER.

3) Whether you decide to go with ECUFlash vs. Cobb AP/ST is a big decision. For almost everyone I recommend Cobb AP/ST if they can afford it. The new AP/ST (v2.0) will be better than anything that ECUFlash has to offer. Futhermore, Cobb has support, warranty, and will try to fix your ECU if you fry it. OpenECU tools have message board support by whoever wants to help, no warranty, and if you scramble your ECU then you're screwed. On the other hand, if you are a poor SOB, then OpenECU may be for you. I have a close friend who has no money. So, we bought an $80 cable and I tuned his car. For $80 I gave him a tune comparable to an $800 AP + custom tune. However, I am knowledgeable about tuning and can custom tune.

4) Currently, OpenECU tools do not have real-time tuning ability. That means that everytime you want to change something you have to flash the ECU. This makes Cobb's product the obvious better choice at this time. Rumor has it that OpenECU tools will eventually have real-time tuning ... but, it seems like that promise keeps getting pushed back and back and back. Cobb's ST also gives some really cool stuff like Turbo Dynamics logging, Integrated Wideband support, etc. There are only 2 advantages to OpenECU besides price as I see it: More tables to play with as compared to the current StreetTUNER (this will go away with v2), and ECUFlash flashes your ECU almost 10 times quicker (this will also go away with Cobb v2 tools).

I will eventually be doing a full writeup on OpenECU eventually. It is a nice solution for poor people. However, Cobb's tools give you things like support, warranty, etc .... AND the new v2 Cobb tools will be better by far. It comes down to how much money you have and what type of support you desire (IMHO).

t

[ZuMBLe]

Possibly the best combo would be the OpenECU tools coupled with AP/ST since that will give you real time tuning, WB logging etc along with access to all the basemap tables.

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

So much misinformation in this thread!

If your car contains a fully stock base map with the correct revision that matches your case ID then the dealership won't know (given everything that is known). The following comment made by 2fast for you is wrong ...



Here's what the ECU police says:

1) Using OpenECU tools will guarantee you a method of making sure the dealership cannot detect that you have flashed your ECU (given everything that is currently known about detection). Why? OpenECU (specifically ECUFlash) will allow you to pull down a full 100% copy of your base map. You store this on your hard drive and can later reflash this to your ECU before you go to the dealership. The base map contains the checksum so the checksum will be exactly what they are looking for. Cobb's approach currently does not give you a method to convert back to your original map. HOWEVER, AccessPORT 2.0 will have this ability. This is NOT a 'hit' at Cobb. Cobb's technology has been out a long time (well before ECUFlash) so it is natural that improvements have been made since then. Cobb's tools rock and were state of the art when they were released. The new v2.0 Cobb tools will take this to the next level. REALLY looking forward to those tools!

2) You can't compare OpenECU tools to an AP. One is user tuneable, one is not. This is NOT a fair comparison. OpenECU tools need to be compared to Cobb AP + StreetTUNER.

3) Whether you decide to go with ECUFlash vs. Cobb AP/ST is a big decision. For almost everyone I recommend Cobb AP/ST if they can afford it. The new AP/ST (v2.0) will be better than anything that ECUFlash has to offer. Futhermore, Cobb has support, warranty, and will try to fix your ECU if you fry it. OpenECU tools have message board support by whoever wants to help, no warranty, and if you scramble your ECU then you're screwed. On the other hand, if you are a poor SOB, then OpenECU may be for you. I have a close friend who has no money. So, we bought an $80 cable and I tuned his car. For $80 I gave him a tune comparable to an $800 AP + custom tune. However, I am knowledgeable about tuning and can custom tune.

4) Currently, OpenECU tools do not have real-time tuning ability. That means that everytime you want to change something you have to flash the ECU. This makes Cobb's product the obvious better choice at this time. Rumor has it that OpenECU tools will eventually have real-time tuning ... but, it seems like that promise keeps getting pushed back and back and back. Cobb's ST also gives some really cool stuff like Turbo Dynamics logging, Integrated Wideband support, etc. There are only 2 advantages to OpenECU besides price as I see it: More tables to play with as compared to the current StreetTUNER (this will go away with v2), and ECUFlash flashes your ECU almost 10 times quicker (this will also go away with Cobb v2 tools).

I will eventually be doing a full writeup on OpenECU eventually. It is a nice solution for poor people. However, Cobb's tools give you things like support, warranty, etc .... AND the new v2 Cobb tools will be better by far. It comes down to how much money you have and what type of support you desire (IMHO).

t

[WolfPlayer]

Originally Posted by ZuMBLe

Possibly the best combo would be the OpenECU tools coupled with AP/ST since that will give you real time tuning, WB logging etc along with access to all the basemap tables.

Since you specifically brought this up, yes, I agree. I tried this and it worked great. Several others are doing this. HOWEVER, this will NOT be necessary with Cobb Stage 2 tools and, I don't think it will even be possible given that Cobb is going to be locking down their flashes (which I am GUESSING will be implemented in v2).

t

[ZuMBLe]

I don't mind that cobb locks their maps down as long as we have everything we need in the new ST tools. I totally believe in paying for a good product. Right now my motivation for using openecu is to get around Cobb's base flash limitiation. I can't fit my new intake calibration table in to a basemap. There are no definitions for the 05FXT yet for enginuity but it should be coming out in the next release. But I want to have a basemap with my intake calibration table incase the ECU gets reset etc. I assume this problem will be taken care of in the new Cobb Tools.

Tonight I'm going to try to tune my friend's 02 WRX using ECUFlash and Enginuity.

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

Since you specifically brought this up, yes, I agree. I tried this and it worked great. Several others are doing this. HOWEVER, this will NOT be necessary with Cobb Stage 2 tools and, I don't think it will even be possible given that Cobb is going to be locking down their flashes (which I am GUESSING will be implemented in v2).

t

[crystal_Imprezav]

I am currently doing this b/c ST just doesn't give me access to tables I need to tune w/ my WI. It is basically protuner in a way and I personally will not be upgrading to Cobbs v2 if they lock out the ecu and won't give us access to protuner tables in ST. I have tuned several cars with AP/openecu tools and have improved performance drastically due to the fact that on say reg. wrx's cobb uses a generic map for a AT and on the car I recently tuned was an 05 manual and the car was not running well at all since the closed loop delays are different for mt and at and in the end I was able to smooth out idle and drivability a lot.

[STirish]

Originally Posted by crystal_Imprezav

I am currently doing this b/c ST just doesn't give me access to tables I need to tune w/ my WI. It is basically protuner in a way and I personally will not be upgrading to Cobbs v2 if they lock out the ecu and won't give us access to protuner tables in ST. I have tuned several cars with AP/openecu tools and have improved performance drastically due to the fact that on say reg. wrx's cobb uses a generic map for a AT and on the car I recently tuned was an 05 manual and the car was not running well at all since the closed loop delays are different for mt and at and in the end I was able to smooth out idle and drivability a lot.

I believe the ST v2.0 will give you access to all the maps the PT has.

[VAsti]

Edited by Moderator due to Intellectual Property violation.

[scubadiver424]

ill be getting the new AP when it arrives and Im excited its got the feature of reloading the same EXACT map that the Stock STI ecu has, but the main reason im waiting is because I dont have cash for a while