[RainMaker]

Hey all,

THIS APPLIES TO ALL ECUTEK REFLASHES, NOT JUST 06 CARS.

In October, I had a new 06 STi. At the time, Cobb had not produced the AP for the 06s, and I was doing a stage 4 green setup. PDXTuning sold me an EcuTEK license and did a dynotune.

After much later installing a blowthrough, an EWG, WI, a header, and other items, PDXTuning felt that economics of the situation was such that with all the dyno tuning and the street tuning that I wanted, I could either buy a Cobb AP, Street Tuner, etc or pay them hourly to reflash EcuTEK. They made a good case for the Cobb, since I love to tune my car, know how, and would continue to make changes. PDXTuning would take my money, but Tim felt I'd have fun doing some of it myself.

So, two weeks ago, I bought a Cobb AP for my 06 STI and we proceeded to load the car up on the dyno. The Cobb AP would not marry to the PCM and we were afraid that the AP or the PCM was malfunctioning. We tried GreggPDX's AP (first we had to unmarry it from his 06, etc), and it would not communicate with the PCM either. Afraid that the PCM was broken, we plugged in EcuTEK and tried writing back to a stock program. Worked like a charm. With the stock program in place, the AP would still not recognize the PCM. We had to put my EcuTEK program back on the PCM and unload the car from the dyno. A call to Christian at Cobb didnt give any quick solutions. The next day I stopped by the local dealership and tried to have them re-flash the PCM. Their SPSC or whatever it was called wouldnt recognize my PCM either. I left before they started to ask further questions. I got home, and then sent the PCM off for analysis. Here is the final conclusion:

EcuTEK altered the handshaking such that no other program could enter the ECU. Not the Cobb AP, not Subaru, no-one except EcuTEK.

Apparently at least 06s (and possibly others) have some of the communication protocol instructions in a re-writable part of the ECU. Tuners currently DO NOT have the ability to put this back to stock.


Fortunately PDXTuning has refunded my $$$, and Cobb was able to get on the PCM (at their shop) and re-write it completely to stock.

I work at a company that sells shoes, apparel, and sports equipment. If we sold a shoe that you couldnt take off, you wouldnt buy it. If we sold you a shoe that you couldnt take off, and didnt tell you about it prior to you wearing it... well... everyone would sue us, wouldnt they? And they would have every right.

I'm disturbed by having a company do this to my car. Im angry that I couldnt reverse it and that I had to ask for a refund for something that I couldnt give back.

Rumor is that this was done to combat OpenECU. I dont care. Folks are going to copy you. You have to out-innovate them to stay in business, not take your customers hostage. Welcome to the 21st century.

Full Disclosure: Cobb determined what had been done, and reported it to me. I have no first hand knowledge of the changes made. Cobb competes with EcuTEK (somewhat). In this matter, based on my experiences with my PCM, they backup what was told to me, and I have no reason to distrust Cobb.

Good luck,
Chris

[STimo]

Wow i didn't know that, yeah i have ecutek on my 05 but i am really thinking about getting rid of it now. They have been saying that they are comming out with the map selector for close to 2 years now and if you ask them they still say "it will be very soon, but i can't give you an exact date." IMO they should finish one product before they move onto the next.
But in your case i think that is plain wrong, it should be illegal for them to do that without telling you first. Hopefully they do something about it. Yeah i'm about done with Ecutek unless they get off their a$$ and do what they say they are going to do.

[Rootus]

I was considering ditching the EcuTEK at some point and getting a Cobb AP, just so I can get Street Tuner. Now I hear that EcuTEK has decided that they own my ECU? Amazing. If this is indeed what they are doing, then I sincerely hope they go out of business. This is not how you treat customers.

[TIMELESS]

hmm, i wonder if i'll run into any issues when i bring my ecutek'd car in for tune adding the AP on top of it. this is the first time i've heard of this kind of problem between running the two EMs at once.

i wonder too if this is an isolated issue or all 06s are like this or previous years will react the same way as well. since i've never heard of anyone running into this issue before i assumed that it would be fine running the two together.

i could have sworn that the AP could run in conjunction with EcuTek.

[RainMaker]

I believe prior to approx. 06, the communication protocol was not in NVRAM and therefor was not changeable.

As for "in conjunction", no... the AP writes over the EcuTEK "license" when it writes the base map during the "marraige" ceremony/process

[WolfPlayer]

Cobb FTW!

t

[RAFALsti]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Hey all,

In October, I had a new 06 STi. At the time, Cobb had not produced the AP for the 06s, and I was doing a stage 4 green setup. PDXTuning sold me an EcuTEK license and did a dynotune.

After much later installing a blowthrough, an EWG, WI, a header, and other items, PDXTuning felt that economics of the situation was such that with all the dyno tuning and the street tuning that I wanted, I could either buy a Cobb AP, Street Tuner, etc or pay them hourly to reflash EcuTEK. They made a good case for the Cobb, since I love to tune my car, know how, and would continue to make changes. PDXTuning would take my money, but Tim felt I'd have fun doing some of it myself.

So, two weeks ago, I bought a Cobb AP for my 06 STI and we proceeded to load the car up on the dyno. The Cobb AP would not marry to the PCM and we were afraid that the AP or the PCM was malfunctioning. We tried GreggPDX's AP (first we had to unmarry it from his 06, etc), and it would not communicate with the PCM either. Afraid that the PCM was broken, we plugged in EcuTEK and tried writing back to a stock program. Worked like a charm. With the stock program in place, the AP would still not recognize the PCM. We had to put my EcuTEK program back on the PCM and unload the car from the dyno. A call to Christian at Cobb didnt give any quick solutions. The next day I stopped by the local dealership and tried to have them re-flash the PCM. Their SPSC or whatever it was called wouldnt recognize my PCM either. I left before they started to ask further questions. I got home, and then sent the PCM off for analysis. Here is the final conclusion:

EcuTEK altered the handshaking such that no other program could enter the ECU. Not the Cobb AP, not Subaru, no-one except EcuTEK.

Apparently at least 06s (and possibly others) have some of the communication protocol instructions in a re-writable part of the ECU. Tuners currently DO NOT have the ability to put this back to stock.


Fortunately PDXTuning has refunded my $$$, and Cobb was able to get on the PCM (at their shop) and re-write it completely to stock.

I work at a company that sells shoes, apparel, and sports equipment. If we sold a shoe that you couldnt take off, you wouldnt buy it. If we sold you a shoe that you couldnt take off, and didnt tell you about it prior to you wearing it... well... everyone would sue us, wouldnt they? And they would have every right.

I'm disturbed by having a company do this to my car. Im angry that I couldnt reverse it and that I had to ask for a refund for something that I couldnt give back.

Rumor is that this was done to combat OpenECU. I dont care. Folks are going to copy you. You have to out-innovate them to stay in business, not take your customers hostage. Welcome to the 21st century.

Full Disclosure: Cobb determined what had been done, and reported it to me. I have no first hand knowledge of the changes made. Cobb competes with EcuTEK (somewhat). In this matter, based on my experiences with my PCM, they backup what was told to me, and I have no reason to distrust Cobb.

Good luck,
Chris

I am not surprised by your experience. When my MY06 STI engine blew up after ECUTEK tuneup I had to pay for a new engine and Subaru would not warranty the new engine unless I also installed a brand new ECU, since the ECUTEK modified ECU could not be reflashed back to original.
Total bill USD9000.
Oh, I almost forgot, I got a refund from ECUTEK for the license, but not for the tuneup and dyno labor...!

[jasv11]

Originally Posted by RAFALsti

I am not surprised by your experience. When my MY06 STI engine blew up after ECUTEK tuneup I had to pay for a new engine and Subaru would not warranty the new engine unless I also installed a brand new ECU, since the ECUTEK modified ECU could not be reflashed back to original.
Total bill USD9000.
Oh, I almost forgot, I got a refund from ECUTEK for the license, but not for the tuneup and dyno labor...!

I have a Cobb AP and have no dealings with ECUTEK whatsoever. But to say that ECUTEK blew up your motor is a bit of a stretch. Maybe it was a bad tuner?? Sorry I just don't like seeing how discussions on Forums get carried away.

[520]

Originally Posted by RAFALsti

I am not surprised by your experience. When my MY06 STI engine blew up after ECUTEK tuneup I had to pay for a new engine and Subaru would not warranty the new engine unless I also installed a brand new ECU, since the ECUTEK modified ECU could not be reflashed back to original.
Total bill USD9000.
Oh, I almost forgot, I got a refund from ECUTEK for the license, but not for the tuneup and dyno labor...!

why didnt you just go w/ a built engine then? woulda came out similar in pricing etc. wouldnt even matter what turbo would go on the built block. just a curious question.

[JDM-STI]

Plus, Ecutek didn't blow your motor, either the tune/tuner or your driving did.

Originally Posted by RAFALsti

I am not surprised by your experience. When my MY06 STI engine blew up after ECUTEK tuneup I had to pay for a new engine and Subaru would not warranty the new engine unless I also installed a brand new ECU, since the ECUTEK modified ECU could not be reflashed back to original.
Total bill USD9000.
Oh, I almost forgot, I got a refund from ECUTEK for the license, but not for the tuneup and dyno labor...!

[evilSTi7]

i made this a sticky since i think its important people know this.

[Insane06STi]

Good info,thanks.

[Horhay]

hmm, just one more reason why I think Cobb is the best option for ECU programming.

[DragonXero13]

+1!! COBB FOR THE WINNN!!!oneoneoen11111

[RAFALsti]

Originally Posted by JDM-STI

Plus, Ecutek didn't blow your motor, either the tune/tuner or your driving did.

I did not say that ECUTEK alone blew up my engine, did I? All I said that after my engine blew up it was not possible to reflash the ECU which was modified by ECUTEK. There is a subtle difference and you jumped to conclusions.
For the record, the turbo inlet hose was incorrectly fitted by Subaru at the factory and it broke under the clamp letting unmetered air through., leaning out the combustion and causing detonation. That and the Ecutek tuning, which overrode factory ECU safety margins blew up my engine.