[stealthspeed6]

i am posting this for a friend that i helped log info, here is his post:

I have an 07 sti with 9400 miles on it. Broke in correctly, never drive aggressive except one trip to the drag strip and when I was doing the 1st to 3rd gear pull log tests that revealed knock. Using romraider test release(enginuity) and a tactrix cable. I was getting a tune done by dom tune and he responds to my log with:

"It's logging knock at 5 degrees of timing. What is the history of your car? How hard have you been on it before coming to me? I think you need to take a very thorough look at your car and it's health. These maps are safe and very conservative. The AFRs are in the 10's and the timing isn't aggressive at all, yet it's logging tons of knock. Something isn't right."

My related modifications are:
-Cobb 3" street turboback exhaust
-Cobb SF intake
-SSAC fmic
-Samco MAF intake tube
-Deatschwerks 650cc injectors
-Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump
-Prodrive Boost Solenoid

http://users.adelphia.net/~bova80/al...irev2_logs.zip

im trying to figure out if its mechanical or what i should be looking for. I dont hear any bad sounds or feel anything out of the ordinary. exhaust pops some is all i know but thats it.

if you want to see the tune let me know. some other users have said it could be something to with closed and open loop delay or with tip in. not sure just looking for some opinions.

logs were done with enginuty test release .785 and afr logged via lc-1 wideband

[atanarus]

07 with all those mods and no EM? He's basically asking for a blown piston. How long did he run those mods without EM?

[stealthspeed6]

he has EM. thats what the tunes are for. those logs were for after he received a tune. tunes are done via open source.

[Templar]

Just curious, what is your fuel source?

[stealthspeed6]

fills up with 93 octane from sunoco.

[EQ Tuning]

It looks like the ECU is picking up knock only during a throttle transition. In the 3rd gear log the ECU is pulling a bunch of timing just as the throttle is applied at the beginning of the pull and then its continually giving it back through the rest of the pull. This means there is no other knock during that particular pull. The 1st-3rd log looks even better and the only time its sensing knock is right after the shift to 2nd... again on a throttle transition.

Considering this and the fact that the 07 knock sensor strategy is much more sensitive than previous years, I would guess that the ECU is picking up false knock. I've seen a couple 07's that just register knock no matter what. One of them was fixed by the owner by going through everything, tightening all exhaust bolts, checking for loose parts around the engine bay, tight clearances where things might be tapping, etc. The fact that yours is only picking up knock during heavy throttle transition suggests that something is hitting when the engine loads up quickly. I would check the TBE and FMIC piping for clearances. Its also possible that the injector parameters are not set up properly causing a very brief lean condition during quick transitions.

Its kind of funny, but the 07 knock sensor strategy is much more similar to Evo's than previous years. Evo's also tend to be extremely sensitive to hardware hitting the frame and such.

Thanks
-- Ed

[BBBsti LTD]

Originally Posted by EQ Tuning

It looks like the ECU is picking up knock only during a throttle transition. In the 3rd gear log the ECU is pulling a bunch of timing just as the throttle is applied at the beginning of the pull and then its continually giving it back through the rest of the pull. This means there is no other knock during that particular pull. The 1st-3rd log looks even better and the only time its sensing knock is right after the shift to 2nd... again on a throttle transition.

Considering this and the fact that the 07 knock sensor strategy is much more sensitive than previous years, I would guess that the ECU is picking up false knock. I've seen a couple 07's that just register knock no matter what. One of them was fixed by the owner by going through everything, tightening all exhaust bolts, checking for loose parts around the engine bay, tight clearances where things might be tapping, etc. The fact that yours is only picking up knock during heavy throttle transition suggests that something is hitting when the engine loads up quickly. I would check the TBE and FMIC piping for clearances. Its also possible that the injector parameters are not set up properly causing a very brief lean condition during quick transitions.

Its kind of funny, but the 07 knock sensor strategy is much more similar to Evo's than previous years. Evo's also tend to be extremely sensitive to hardware hitting the frame and such.

Thanks
-- Ed

Ed

Thanks for your informative posts, would you be able to briefly explain what you mean with the knock strategy is more sensitive and similar to EVOS.

Thanks

[stealthspeed6]

what do you make of this log
http://users.adelphia.net/~bova80/al...irev5_1to3.zip

[rabbisti397]

Knock Knock. Who's there? Your engine and he is ready to blow.

[b0nd18t]

this is my car. tuner believes its a bad piston cylinder #4, or a loose knock sensor. modded this car by the books and rarely ran it hard. pretty disappointed in this vehicle if something is actually wrong with the engine already.

[EQ Tuning]

Originally Posted by BBBsti LTD

Ed

Thanks for your informative posts, would you be able to briefly explain what you mean with the knock strategy is more sensitive and similar to EVOS.

Thanks

What I meant is that the 07 ECU seems to be a lot more sensitive to general noise and is very quick to pull timing when it hears anything it perceives as knock. Unlike previous years, however, the 07 ECU's don't tend to record and learn from these knock events under most circumstances. The other part is that once the ECU hears noise and pulls out the timing, it gives it back in .5* increments very slowly which results in significantly less timing being run through the entire gear or pull. This entire strategy is much more similar to the way the EVO ECU works than the previous year STI's. The previous year STI ECU's would pull out the timing when they hear knock and then attempt to return to the mapped timing values within a couple hundred RPM. At the same time, they would record this knock event in the fine learning table and pull out timing in that spot next time around before having to hear knock.

I think this becomes an issue with louder exhausts and poorly fitting hardware that may cause noise that the ECU perceives as knock.

Thanks
-- Ed

[EQ Tuning]

Originally Posted by stealthspeed6

what do you make of this log
http://users.adelphia.net/~bova80/alan07stirev5_1to3.zip

Looks like it picked up a bit of knock around 4400RPM and then picked up a good deal more on the shift. Its difficult to say if this is real knock or just noise causing a false knock reading.

-- Ed

[gabedude]

Originally Posted by EQ Tuning

What I meant is that the 07 ECU seems to be a lot more sensitive to general noise and is very quick to pull timing when it hears anything it perceives as knock. Unlike previous years, however, the 07 ECU's don't tend to record and learn from these knock events under most circumstances. The other part is that once the ECU hears noise and pulls out the timing, it gives it back in .5* increments very slowly which results in significantly less timing being run through the entire gear or pull. This entire strategy is much more similar to the way the EVO ECU works than the previous year STI's. The previous year STI ECU's would pull out the timing when they hear knock and then attempt to return to the mapped timing values within a couple hundred RPM. At the same time, they would record this knock event in the fine learning table and pull out timing in that spot next time around before having to hear knock.

I think this becomes an issue with louder exhausts and poorly fitting hardware that may cause noise that the ECU perceives as knock.

Thanks
-- Ed

Ed,

This is not entirely correct. It is not that simple. The 07 STI has 2 layers of knock control and 4 advance tables vs previous MY of 2 layers of knock control and 3 advance tables. It is complex, not simple. When you talk about how much timing is pulled per knock event and then added back in, it is not 0.5 degrees, it is .35 degrees for FLKC on both the 07 STI and the 06 STI. Take a look at some stock ROMs. Also, Cobb explains the ECU in a different way so there is some confusion when talking about advance tables (and the fine learning table). Here are some pics:

07 STI:



06 STI:



Of course you can change these (and the advance tables) to make an 07 STI map and behave exactly like an 06 STI or a WRX.

As you can see, the real answer is this:

The 06 pulls more timing in FBKC and adds it back in slower, but in 1 degree increments.
The 06 pulls the same timing in FLKC and adds it in slower in 0.35 degree increments.
The 07 pulls less timing in FBKC and adds it back in faster in 0.35 degree increments.
The 07 pulls the same timing in FLKC and adds it in faster in 0.35 degree increments.

So in essence, the 07 STI actually "rides" the knock sensor more. The reason behind this logic change is the extra advance table. When tuning an 07 STI you can set it up like a WRX or an earlier model STI. The extra advance table in the 07 STI is a problem area IMHO as it relies on too many conditions to become active and add in timing. This is probably what you are seeing combined with the 06 STI pulling more timing per knock when FBKC is enabled (which is not learned). I really need to finish my comprehensive WRX/STI stock flash tuning guide.

Gabe

Edit:

Also take into account the differences in the other knock control paramters. You must look at the big picture. All of this is adjustable. Simply put, the 07 STI knocks more unless you change these parameters.

[b0nd18t]

can someone show me a real life picture of the knock sensor on an 07 sti, i cant really see it below the bpv. my bpv is pretty loose due to a fmic and no real mounting for it. when looking, i did find a small blue cap with an "H" on it down there and put it back on a line that looks like its from the radiator.

[gabedude]

Originally Posted by b0nd18t

can someone show me a real life picture of the knock sensor on an 07 sti, i cant really see it below the bpv. my bpv is pretty loose due to a fmic and no real mounting for it. when looking, i did find a small blue cap with an "H" on it down there and put it back on a line that looks like its from the radiator.

It is on the block above cyl #4. I don't have a pic, but it looks like a black bottle cap sized part with a hole in the middle and a pigtail. It is simply a microphone. Take off your IC to see it on the driver side rear on the top of the block. When taking it out and putting it back in, torquing it down correctly is very important.