[explor4u]

Need advice on what to do! I was losing power and the datalog revealed some timing been pulled:

RomRaider • View topic - 07 sti Datalogged need advice

Thanks guys

[GuiltySparc]

Well, i noticed a couple things. The first thing i noticed was how low your mass air flow is. Gabe's stage 1 maps are making similar numbers and i would expect stage 2 to be a bit more. What were the outside conditions during those pulls (temp, humidity, elevation, etc.)?

Secondly, you'll want to diagnose your map with 3rd or 4th gear pulls because 1st/2nd gear runs too quickly and you dont get good resolution on whats going on. So take a run from ~2500 to redline at full throttle in 3rd or 4th gear. You'll get a better idea of whats going on.

How many miles do you have on the map? It seems your car has learned to pull a substantial amount of timing in the upper RPM bad. What this means is, you had quite a bit of knock from ~5500 to redline when you first flashed the map and then the ECU learned it out. Your car is no longer knocking there (from what i can tell in these logs) because its is pre-emptively pulling timing...which is ok in the sense that learning timing is what the ECU is suppose to do.

Lastly, your IDC's look fine. They seem to level out around 88% at almost redline.

As for what you should do, you have three options. Do nothing, get it protuned, or try an open source map. Since you have already dropped the $700 for an access port, you might not want to drop around $150 (i think) for an XPT map. I would get a couple of 2500-redline 3rd gear pulls before i decided anything. The car isn't knocking very much at the moment and the IDCs are safe. Although, you might want to be concerned if you ever have to reflash the car because the high rpm knock would need to be learned out again.

Thats my .02 and i'll be the first one to admit i am no tuning guru, lol. So take what i wrote with maybe 2 or 3 grains of salt.

[explor4u]

Thanks for the response and advice.

Originally Posted by GuiltySparc

Well, i noticed a couple things. The first thing i noticed was how low your mass air flow is. Gabe's stage 1 maps are making similar numbers and i would expect stage 2 to be a bit more. What were the outside conditions during those pulls (temp, humidity, elevation, etc.)?

Outside Temp was 55 degrees F, Don't know the relative humidity, but it was low, also I am in Florida so I guess is like 100ft above sea level.

Originally Posted by GuiltySparc

Secondly, you'll want to diagnose your map with 3rd or 4th gear pulls because 1st/2nd gear runs too quickly and you dont get good resolution on whats going on. So take a run from ~2500 to redline at full throttle in 3rd or 4th gear. You'll get a better idea of whats going on.

Actually this pulls were done in 4th gear.

Originally Posted by GuiltySparc

How many miles do you have on the map? It seems your car has learned to pull a substantial amount of timing in the upper RPM bad. What this means is, you had quite a bit of knock from ~5500 to redline when you first flashed the map and then the ECU learned it out. Your car is no longer knocking there (from what i can tell in these logs) because its is pre-emptively pulling timing...which is ok in the sense that learning timing is what the ECU is suppose to do.

Well, I think that was the mistake I made. I went to the track with less than 100 miles with stage 2 and on my second pass (same night I went to the track) I felt a big drop in power after 5500rpm; is actually the pulled timing we see in the datalog. So I guess it was too soon to to take the car to the track after stage 2 flash.

Originally Posted by GuiltySparc

Lastly, your IDC's look fine. They seem to level out around 88% at almost redline.

As for what you should do, you have three options. Do nothing, get it protuned, or try an open source map. Since you have already dropped the $700 for an access port, you might not want to drop around $150 (i think) for an XPT map. I would get a couple of 2500-redline 3rd gear pulls before i decided anything. The car isn't knocking very much at the moment and the IDCs are safe. Although, you might want to be concerned if you ever have to reflash the car because the high rpm knock would need to be learned out again.

I actually was thinking on selling the AP and get me a XPT map ASAP. I don't mind to go with the XPT as long as it fix my problem.

Originally Posted by GuiltySparc

Thats my .02 and i'll be the first one to admit i am no tuning guru, lol. So take what i wrote with maybe 2 or 3 grains of salt.

Well, but I appreciate that you took the time and looked at my logs and made your comments. Thanks man. I will look into a protune (not AP) or atleast a opensource map that can fix the problem.

Thanks

[GuiltySparc]

Oh i gotcha, i misunderstood the titles of your logs. I was thinking 1st, 2nd, 3rd were the gears not the pull numbers. My bad. Anywho, I dont have first hand experience with the XPT stage 2 map, but i've heard nothing but good things.

In my opinion, open source works very well for some people and very poorly for others. For people who don't mind keeping an eye on their car, logging, etc. open source is a great choice (imo, the best choice). If you dont want to do that, then get protuned because you can always fall back (hopefully) on the tuner if things go south. The folks at XPT will do all they can to help you out, but you have to log your car and recognize when things look strange.

Good luck with your car.

[explor4u]

Originally Posted by GuiltySparc

Oh i gotcha, i misunderstood the titles of your logs. I was thinking 1st, 2nd, 3rd were the gears not the pull numbers. My bad. Anywho, I dont have first hand experience with the XPT stage 2 map, but i've heard nothing but good things.

In my opinion, open source works very well for some people and very poorly for others. For people who don't mind keeping an eye on their car, logging, etc. open source is a great choice (imo, the best choice). If you dont want to do that, then get protuned because you can always fall back (hopefully) on the tuner if things go south. The folks at XPT will do all they can to help you out, but you have to log your car and recognize when things look strange.

Good luck with your car.

Thanks! I don't mind to keep an eye on my car and actually can feel when the car is not responding the way it should. If I can't get a pro tuner around here, I will go with the XPT and "gabedude". I hear nothing but good things about those guys.

Thanks again and good luck with your car too!

[rjacobs]

An XPT map might not "fix" your issues, but with open source you can then go in and tune it where with an AP you need the street tuner software or go get a pro tune. I have had Gabe tune my car(and he is re-tuning it next week) and it runs very well. There are some free maps of his for the 07 or you can get the XPT maps, which are based off of his free maps. Get a wideband as well, alot of the open source tuners will help you out, but most of them want you to have a wideband. The innovative LC-1 works with engenuity currently, I think it is the only one.

[explor4u]

Originally Posted by rjacobs

An XPT map might not "fix" your issues, but with open source you can then go in and tune it where with an AP you need the street tuner software or go get a pro tune. I have had Gabe tune my car(and he is re-tuning it next week) and it runs very well. There are some free maps of his for the 07 or you can get the XPT maps, which are based off of his free maps. Get a wideband as well, alot of the open source tuners will help you out, but most of them want you to have a wideband. The innovative LC-1 works with engenuity currently, I think it is the only one.

Thanks! I will definitely get a Wb02. So if I get the XPT map and datalog it and send it to XPT for their review they might send me another map (if they find something) with the fix? I am not a tuner, but I'm whiling learn; I am an engineer myself so it shouldn't be difficult to learn (I guess ). How you hook the LC-1 to the laptop? Does it comes with a cable for the computer? Thanks again!

[rjacobs]

Go to the romraider(used to be engenuity) site and look around. You might not need to get an XPT map, you could download one of gabe's free maps. Some of the tuners will help you out if you send them datalogs and they will let you know what to tweak. I dont really know anything about XPT and how they operate. The romraider(engenuity) software has a little box for each of the parameters that tells you basically what it controls, it doesnt tell you how to tune it or anything like that. As far as the WBO2, the innovative plugs in via serial port or you can get a serial to USB adapter.

[explor4u]

Originally Posted by rjacobs

Go to the romraider(used to be engenuity) site and look around. You might not need to get an XPT map, you could download one of gabe's free maps. Some of the tuners will help you out if you send them datalogs and they will let you know what to tweak. I dont really know anything about XPT and how they operate. The romraider(engenuity) software has a little box for each of the parameters that tells you basically what it controls, it doesnt tell you how to tune it or anything like that. As far as the WBO2, the innovative plugs in via serial port or you can get a serial to USB adapter.

Thanks!

[GuiltySparc]

Originally Posted by rjacobs

Go to the romraider(used to be engenuity) site and look around. You might not need to get an XPT map, you could download one of gabe's free maps...

The only maps that Gabe has for free are the stage 1 maps. Howver he is currently working with XPT offering a "Gabedude tweaked" version of the XPT stage 2 map, which is purchased through XPT.

[rjacobs]

He isnt working on it to much since he doesnt have a car to tune with currently. I think he did get a free stage 2 map(not super tweaked like his stage 1) out before his motor went though. His stage 1 maps are more powerful than alot of stage 2 maps anyway. Its a very good starting point.

[GuiltySparc]

Originally Posted by rjacobs

He isnt working on it to much since he doesnt have a car to tune with currently. I think he did get a free stage 2 map(not super tweaked like his stage 1) out before his motor went though. His stage 1 maps are more powerful than alot of stage 2 maps anyway. Its a very good starting point.

I guess what i meant to say was, he worked with the stage 2 map and offered his version along side the regular XPT version. His version was "free" but you had to have bought the regular XPT map in order to access to the forum the Gabedude version was posted under.

The state 1 map is awesome, though i'm not sure if you would want to run it with Stage 2 mods and i got the impression the OP wanted a map that would be plug and play with his current setup.

[gabedude]

Originally Posted by rjacobs

An XPT map might not "fix" your issues, but with open source you can then go in and tune it where with an AP you need the street tuner software or go get a pro tune. I have had Gabe tune my car(and he is re-tuning it next week) and it runs very well. There are some free maps of his for the 07 or you can get the XPT maps, which are based off of his free maps. Get a wideband as well, alot of the open source tuners will help you out, but most of them want you to have a wideband. The innovative LC-1 works with engenuity currently, I think it is the only one.

The 07 stage 2 STI XPT map pakage comes with 3 maps made by me and 3 by Braden.

They are all complete maps. I was running an even more aggressive version of the my Stage 2 map when motor went.

[explor4u]

Originally Posted by gabedude

The 07 stage 2 STI XPT map pakage comes with 3 maps made by me and 3 by Braden.

They are all complete maps. I was running an even more aggressive version of the my Stage 2 map when motor went.

Thanks for the info! I'm going to install the walbro fuel pump this weekend and will be buying the XPT stage 2. Now my question is, will the stock air box map work fine with a K&N drop in filter? Would I need a Wideband to run the map? Eventually I will be buying the WB02, but not right away. Thanks again.

[reddoak]

I'm in Orlando, have an 07' STI, and am currently running the XPT stage 2 Gabedude tweaked map. If you want to meet up I'll take you for a spin and compare logs. You can see how the XPT map runs on mine.

Braden doesn't want logs off his maps posted publicly, but I can tell you that your MAF readings are low compared to mine, as is your boost, engine load, and IDCs (although mine stay below 100% even in the cool weather lately.) The timing is generally not as advanced as yours is trying to achieve.

Judging from the low IDC% and lower boost, Cobb may be trying to err on the side of caution. I don't blame them... But, it looks like your map is trying to add too much timing. Buy some race gas at O-Speedworld and you might do better!

I've had pretty good experience with the XPT maps, and with Braden's support of them as well. I would either bite the bullet and get a pro-tune, or just sell the AP and go open-source with the XPT map. I wouldn't sell the AP until you've lined up an appointment for an open source tune or downloaded the XPT map. Running the car w/out an appropriate map - not so good an idea!