[Snax]

Not to bash WI, but it can only do so much. At some threshold, you just end up with detonation and allot of water going through the motor, but up until that point, it can provide a large benefit.

Water injection has been in use to boost power since the 40's. I can't think of specific models at the moment, but mixed with methanol, it was what allowed some WWII fighter planes to run at elevated boost pressure for short periods of time. I presume that the time period was determined mostly by the amount of fluid in the tank.

That said, a safety switch needs to be in place to reduce boost or timing when the water runs out!

[Silverbane]

Sure WI has limits but its an aid, everything has limits

Most people refill the water tank when they get gas, since typically it gets used at a rate slower that fuel. I dont know who knows about water injection and how to use it but forgets to refill (typically it costs under a dollar to refill a gallon tank

Oh and I dont remember either but yes the airforce did use WI on airplanes during WWII to give them an edge over the competition

[crashsti]

i am aware of how water injection works. i've have read a few articles regarding its use, but i believe if it was the "magic pill" for crazy horsepower we'd be seeing and reading about it far more often than we do. i don't think its a good technology for the street and while it may be inexpensive i still believe that there are more sound methods for making good power on the street. its another example of race technology not really making the cut for street use. the best way to build a solid reliable street motor is to have a well thought out combination. i have seen small block V8's that run twin turbos and pump gas that make over 1000hp without using water injection.

[crashsti]

Oh and I dont remember either but yes the airforce did use WI on airplanes during WWII to give them an edge over the competition

they also used nitrous. imagine how huge the nitrous tanks had to be to supply a bomber!!!! i'm not bashing water injection as an option. it apparently does have its place, i just think there are better options for a street car.

[04STI_BLUE]

I don't like WI because it is a single point of failure. It runs crazy timing (ment to say high timing to achieve high HP) and I don't think anything can save engine if something went wrong with WI. Even UTEC, will not save it with awesome knock control built in.... It is good for a race car but not for daily driven car. Hopefully someone runs WI in the track only... I can not imagine running it every day with WI on..

Adding it for safety margin, I might consider to reduce knock but not for perfromance gain......

[Silverbane]

Originally Posted by 04STI_BLUE

I don't like WI because it is a single point of failure. It runs crazy timing (ment to say high timing to achieve high HP) and I don't think anything can save engine if something went wrong with WI. Even UTEC, will not save it with awesome knock control built in....

LOL now thats funny

WI does not add timing, it is not a single point of failure (although it can be) if you use it to tune for more power, like nitrous or methane (if you tuned for those)

Since obviously you guys think were claiming this to be the be all end all... consider this, tune your street performance engine to the level you want... add your intercooler and all your other mods... once done add water injection (dont change your tuning) in small increments...

Now how does, not changing anything about your tune, but using the cooling properties of it add timing or blow your engine? Personally running with lower than ambiant temps (or at least lower than just with an IC) sounds good for my engine.

You yourself said use it as a safety margin agains knock (imagine on a stock STI with the cpu retarding timing) how much power you could gain back from a small amount of WI. You dont have to tune for it for some huge point of failure, but instead use it to augment your current level of tune.

[Silverbane]

Originally Posted by crashsti

i'm not bashing water injection as an option. it apparently does have its place, i just think there are better options for a street car.

*disclaimer* this is a friendly request

Soooooo what options?

[ss3homer]

LOL, back to the TOPIC! I don't think that, if they are alike in measurements and what not, that the turbo's would be that different. I don't know for sure though, but I suppose you MAYBE could get off with a TMIC, look into the SPEARCO ones, I heard that they were A LOT like FMIC, cooling wise. I'm not a Subaru expert, and trust me, lol, I can back it up, but I'm just giving you some basic tips!

[doublej]

ok lets get this straight guys.. its ecuteck not utec

[rallybred]

I was waiting for utec, but now I think all piggyback suck. I think I would rather take the time to wire in a standalone, before I get a piggyback now. I have been posting and posting at AEM, they are almost done with my03 ecu. It will be BAD when its out, and only couple hundred more, could even be worth going back to throttle cable, but not for me. I just found out motec400 supports drive by wire (is ours delphi?), gonna read for a few more months and see what people get with utec. I think by the time I feel I am eduacated enough on the topic, I might have enough $ saved for motec (maybe $4k+!).

[crashsti]

crashsti wrote:

i'm not bashing water injection as an option. it apparently does have its place, i just think there are better options for a street car.


*disclaimer* this is a friendly request

Soooooo what options?

the STi comes in making 2 horsepower per cubic inch. that is pretty stout for a factory piece. that level of tune from the factory makes adding additional horsepower that much more difficult and expensive. being limited to 150 cubic inches adds to the problem. on a small displacement engine there are really only two ways to substantially increase horsepower, running at extremely high RPM, or through the use of a power adder, such as a turbocharging. both of these options require a well thought out plan for the best results. on the STi i believe that each and every system should be evaluated to make certain they all work together to achieve the desired results. this is why it is best to work with established tuners who have done the neccesary research and developement and have come up with the optimised combinations that make the best power without giving up to much in the reliability department. with the STi its going to take more than adding headers(or water injection) to get the big numbers.

[Silverbane]

Hmm

I think, after reading your last post, that i've been missunderstood.
I'm not advocating WI as the be-all to add HP, since it doesnt, when I suggest WI, I am thinking for safety and just keeping your engine together. On a stock STi w/ the ecu pulling timing for ping, WI could add HP back (a side effect) but when your engine is tuned, I suggest WI to help keep it safe and together.
Like adding a FMIC to a already tuned engine w/ a top mount or along those lines (to remove heat).

[roadrnr37]

Take it from someone who runs a WI system, It works...... There is no other better way to be able to increase boost "safely" than to use a WI system. You all have t realize it does not only reduced predet, but it also increases volumetric efficiency. When the water enters the combustion chamber it expanse just like any gas getting super heated. Yes it helps slow the explosion and yes it does make the engine able to handle more boost with the same static ratio. Water injection has been around for years and it has proven itself time and time again. Water injection can even increase fuel mileage, even in NA vehicles. I have made them for carb cars and run one on my turbo boat. Keep and open mind, if we don’t then we would all still be driving Study’s instead of scooby’s

[donmei]

Like someone said, WI doesn't cool the engine. It cools the intake charge. Issues with WI have nothing to do with its effectiveness. It works. Period. Undisputable. Its been used since WW2 when they used it on monster Radial engines with HUGE combustion chambers, prone to detonation.

But, the question is: is it appropriate on a street car. For most drivers, the answer is No because engine damage can occur if you run out of water on a car tuned to take advantage of it.

For an enthusiast who is willing to make the effort for a WI system's proper care and feeding, the answer might be YES.

Key point here, pay attention: WI is like injectable octane, not injectable "air" like N2O.

WI broadens your detonation margins. If you choose to tune to take advantage of that, you must be aware of the risks if the WI system fails.
If you install WI and don't increase state of tune, it gives you no power but broadens your margins. ie. you might be able to run 89 oct in a pinch with WI and not detonate.

I used to run alcohol/water injection in an '86 Saab 900 Turbo. It allowed me to run more boost without detonation. I also put an indicator light whenever the pump was running. I put it right next to the boost gauge. If I saw a lot of boost without a light, I knew there was a problem and limited boost with my right foot. Hope this helps.

Don

by the way. Some tuners are getting big numbers with the stock TMI. I wouldn't change it if I was on a budget.

[Silverbane]

Originally Posted by roadrnr37

Take it from someone who runs a WI system, It works...... There is no other better way to be able to increase boost "safely" than to use a WI system. You all have t realize it does not only reduced predet, but it also increases volumetric efficiency. When the water enters the combustion chamber it expanse just like any gas getting super heated. Yes it helps slow the explosion and yes it does make the engine able to handle more boost with the same static ratio. Water injection has been around for years and it has proven itself time and time again. Water injection can even increase fuel mileage, even in NA vehicles. I have made them for carb cars and run one on my turbo boat. Keep and open mind, if we don’t then we would all still be driving Study’s instead of scooby’s

Home made? Aquamist? Other? Interested in your setup
Did you reuse the IC sprayer container/lines?

Inquiring minds would like to know! :wink:
I'm assuming you injected it between the IC and Throttle body? (not much space to place it for atomization before the runners.. at least it will cool the cylinders well!)