[JBF04d]

Im trying to go for mid 11's in an 04 STI. I have the borla header, TBE, uppipe, midpipe, downpipe, TXS BOV, TXS intake. The Subaru dealership suggested the FP Green Turbo. But they said dont use the UTEC because it puts too much pressure on the engine. They also said perrin injectors, walbro fuel pump, rising fuel pres. reg., and stock clutch. Anyone have a setup similar too this that can show me some numbers and give me some input?

[sachin]

What kind of gas do you want to run 11s on? 93? 100? C16?

[staticx313]

Shoot me an email: sales@staticxmotorsports.com ... if you have the money I can get you a kit to where you can run low 12s/mid 11s no sweat on pump fuel and even faster on race fuel. Heres more information:

http://www.staticxmotorsports.com/sh...products_id=58

I'd be more than willing to sit down with ya and talk about it if you're serious (all the components required (most you already have)). Thanks and just let me know. BTW it puts down 320whp at 15psi pump fuel (ran 2 12.1 1/4 passes at 15psi). I've seen the kit put down 360whp on 16psi and 495whp on 25psi and race fuel.

No utec because it puts too much pressure on the system? If you want to run injectors or even have a shot of doing 11s you will need some form of Engine Management.

Robert~

[TwisterX]

No engine management, and stock clutch, but you want 11's? Not gonna happen. You can't just slap mods on a car without management. You won't get any gains. And the kind of power you're going to have to put down to run mid 11's means the stock clutch won't hold up.

[JBF04d]

Im gonna be runnin race gas at the track. And i definately want EMS i meant that subaru suggested something other than the utec. :P

[JBF04d]

What's the difference between the Garret Gt T03/T04E and FP Green turbos. StaticX what out of that kit will i need? And subaru said leave the stock clutch because the STI axles are weak and the stock clutch would act like a safety blanket.

[boost6924]

Biggest difference is that with garrett you need to run external wastegate . FP Green is a drop on turbo. Statix, are you talking about ultimate racing stage3? I will upgrade turbo soon too, and I will go either FP green or ultimate stage3. Ultimate stage3 is more money, but I think it is awesome kit.

[sachin]

I wouldn't trust everything Subaru says...they're just techs that are helping you out. I've personally heard nothing but bad things about the perrin modified stock injectors. I think its funny that they said the UTEC puts too much stress on the engine(as if any modification doesn't?) and mentioned nothing of what kind of stress an FP Green turbo is going to put on it...personally I wouldn't recommend the UTEC anyways unless you LOVE tuning your car on a regular basis(the way its designed your maps tend to cease functioning properly due to changing climate conditions the day after you tune).

In regards to your clutch Subaru speaks the truth...kind of. Its true you want to put the stress on the clutch and not on the drivetrain(you want the cheaper parts to break first)...but a stronger clutch will help a lot. With that much power your stock clutch WILL slip. Those crazy puerto ricans went from 11.8@122 to 11.2@128 by upgrading their clutch. Not to say thats the only thing that changed(obviously many factors come into play) but the stock clutch won't hold. You should probably get beefier rear axles anyways(they're ~$500 I think)...replacing your rear axle isn't nearly as expensive as replacing your rear diff when a broken axle is spinning out of it causing it to break(that will be ~$2,000).

"Biggest difference is that with garrett you need to run external wastegate . FP Green is a drop on turbo."

An external wastegate setup is better(and IMHO worth the money) anyways but to ignore that...there are TONS more differences between the two turbos. I don't know much about the T3/TO4E but I can tell you that the Green is a LOT smaller which has its advantages as well as disadvantages.

Honestly, you don't seem like you know a lot about what you're getting into. Research a lot more...I recommend buying a kit thats already been proven or duplicate someone else's setup. Talk to Robert(staticx313), he'll help you out. Get ready to shell out some serious cash. To do it right...and safe...it's going to cost you around $6,000. Engine management, tuning, beefier rear axle(if you decide you want/need it...lots of people do fine without it), installs, an aftermarket FMIC or TMIC, etc. The costs add up fast. This price doesn't include the cost of building a new short block if you blow your motor...my turbo isn't even installed yet and I'm ALREADY saving for a new shortblock.

Sorry if I come off as rude--I see these threads too often and plan on writing a sticky soon about what big HP numbers will cost.

[staticx313]

Originally Posted by JBF04d

What's the difference between the Garret Gt T03/T04E and FP Green turbos. StaticX what out of that kit will i need? And subaru said leave the stock clutch because the STI axles are weak and the stock clutch would act like a safety blanket.

Biggest difference is that with garrett you need to run external wastegate . FP Green is a drop on turbo. Statix, are you talking about ultimate racing stage3? I will upgrade turbo soon too, and I will go either FP green or ultimate stage3. Ultimate stage3 is more money, but I think it is awesome kit.

Whoa... theres a HUGE difference, look at the sheer size of them. The FP Green will require 20+psi to run 11s where as the Ultimate Racing Stage 3 will only require about mid 10s (15-17). The T3/T04E is a 600hp capable turbo! Ultimate Racing said that it will require the full kit in order to make it work (as the turbo is so large you will need all their stuff for perfect placement). Although the UR stage 3 kit is more money, it is definitely a better option (imo). I love the fact I could run 15psi and be a flat 12 car on pump fuel if not in the 11s with 1more psi. If you guys are really serious, both of your orders would put me over my requirement to get better wholesale pricing and i could possibly get them to you for under $3000! Just let me know and I can explain either kit to you: rschwarze@staticxmotorsports.com

To give you an idea of how big this kit is and how awesome it is... another sti tuner:

I have tunned 2 STI with Ultimate racing kit one with the complete kit including topmount intercooler and fuel rails , the other with custom FMIC , injectors ,etc.
One car is a 505whp and the other is 504whp both on VP C-16.
At this point the fuel system at the limits.
One of the the cars 504whp is on a complete redesign and soon we are going to test our new setup to run 10sec on a daily driving STI.

Robert~

[joshd]

STi stage 2 from Vishnu (not on their lame 2-year lagging behind website yet) is:

FP Green
TBE
Walbro fuel pump
PE injectors
EM (either XEDE or ECUTEK reflash)

Does 11's with 5 mods ...

The UR kit ultimately makes more power I'm sure, but there's something to be said for the 'do the most with the least amount of mods' approach.

Yeah, and that stupid vague statement about 'UTEC puts too much pressure on the engine' would make me immediately lose any respect for whoever said it.

- Josh

[JBF04d]

Now im startin to think i should hold off on the turbo, EMS, axels, clutch, etc. and just go for the fuel system and boost controller for now. And do it right when i come into some money.

[staticx313]

Originally Posted by joshd

STi stage 2 from Vishnu (not on their lame 2-year lagging behind website yet) is:

FP Green
TBE
Walbro fuel pump
PE injectors
EM (either XEDE or ECUTEK reflash)

Does 11's with 5 mods ...

The UR kit ultimately makes more power I'm sure, but there's something to be said for the 'do the most with the least amount of mods' approach.

Yeah, and that stupid vague statement about 'UTEC puts too much pressure on the engine' would make me immediately lose any respect for whoever said it.

- Josh

So what is the UR stage 3 then? if a TBE is one mod, then a UR stage 3 kit is 1 mod . Its identically the same thing. 1) A turbo, a wastegate (which the green comes with built in, however the T3/T04E would be a very unwise turbo to run internal with), 2) an uppipe, 3) a downpipe, 4) engine management, 5) fuel pump, and 6) injectors. Poof you've got enough power to destroy anything on the road and enough potential to run 10s. The only difference is that you can properly control boost now with an external wastegate. I know what you're saying, but you'll spend the same amount of cash either way. (FP Green + TBE ~2000-2500) thats equivilant to this kit at $2999 except you get an external wastegate, uppipe, and intake, and inlet hose, and everything to make it work. Where as you have to buy studs, oil line, gaskets for the green I believe. Again I see what you're saying, but the UR Stage 3 kit will do better than anything out there for the same price. ~16psi and you're in 11s vs 20+ psi and race fuel for 11s. That and you wont be limited to mid-high 11s and will be able to get into the 10s as this is a 500+whp capable kit. again this is not to be a "Peeing contest" but I just want to make sure you don't think the vishnu has some voodoo working for it to run so fast. (besides you get what you pay for... thrust bearing vs dual ball bearing ).

edit... btw the kit should be in the $2999 range as i am negotiating on my $5000/month requirement for best pricing in order to get these as low as they can go.

Now im startin to think i should hold off on the turbo, EMS, axels, clutch, etc. and just go for the fuel system and boost controller for now. And do it right when i come into some money.

The only problem is you'll need EM to run a good injector setup. , these cars arent easy to make cheap.

Robert~

[donmei]

Robert/Static,

While that kit seems to be a great start for a more race tuned car. T3/T4 hybrid is a proven power maker. (but with much more lag than stock)

It seems to be missing any kind of fuel system upgrade as well as engine management.

If someone were to bolt it on as pictured on your web site, I'd imagine some damage could be done. This is purely theory, so if you've got fact to back it up, I apologize. But when you start pumping that much air without any fuel system upgrade, you would go lean and risk detonation.

Also, the kit doesn't include any engine management.

I'm not criticizing the kit. I don't know enough about it. Although it looks like a very interesting setup with lots of potential.

I just want to clarify, since the original poster seemed a little . . . Green, I don't want him to think this is a complete "bolt it on and go" kind of kit.

Fuel system and software upgrades at a minimum additional should be done.

Don

[joshd]

Originally Posted by staticx313

1) A turbo, a wastegate (which the green comes with built in, however the T3/T04E would be a very unwise turbo to run internal with), 2) an uppipe, 3) a downpipe, 4) engine management, 5) fuel pump, and 6) injectors. Poof you've got enough power to destroy anything on the road and enough potential to run 10s. The only difference is that you can properly control boost now with an external wastegate. I know what you're saying, but you'll spend the same amount of cash either way. (FP Green + TBE ~2000-2500) thats equivilant to this kit at $2999 except you get an external wastegate, uppipe, and intake, and inlet hose, and everything to make it work.

Robert~

What EM does comes with this kit? My understanding was that it didn't include EM. Also, does it comes with full TBE or just downpipe? Still, if you can get all that (including EM) for $3K, that's a great deal and certainly a sweet kit either way.

I know there's no Voodoo with Vishnu (sounds funny ), but I like their approach of keeping it simple. I think they do include all the fittings from FP to make the turbo work FWIW. Vishnu is not cheap though for sure. Also, you're not forced to go through Vishnu for this type of setup, you can buy Greens directly from FP. Whatever parts you go with though, as you've said, the most important part is going to be the tuning!

The difference with the Green is that it's bolt-on for our cars, no need to change up and downpipe if you don't want to. So I see it as a milder mod than the Garrett, although the Garrett is clearly going to make more power in the long run. Also, I assume that the Garrett is going to be a bit more laggy due to it's sheer size, even with the ball bearings? That's the price you pay for big power though I guess.

If you have aspirations for power beyond what the Green can provide, than you are also most likely looking at a host of other beefier parts as mentioned above (tranny, clutch, maybe even built motor). This is obviously the hard core route, and I wouldn't try to stop anyone from going that route, as long as they know what they're getting into ...


- Josh

[joshd]

Originally Posted by JBF04d

Now im startin to think i should hold off on the turbo, EMS, axels, clutch, etc. and just go for the fuel system and boost controller for now. And do it right when i come into some money.

I don't think this is the best route, because:

1) You don't really need fuel system upgrades to run safely until you pass the 360-370 crank horsepower range. Stage 1 upgrades aren't going to surpass that mark. IDCs are going to be close to maxed out with Stage 1 stuff, but if you're looking to save money, it's not 100% necessary (although certainly can't hurt).

2) As Robert mentioned, I don't think it's a good idea to go upping the boost on an STi without engine management.

With that said, and after much thinking about my own upgrade path, I think it's pretty simple:

Stage 0 - Upgrade EM. This will increase boost and gain somewhere around 20WHP plus faster boost response. Options right now include EcuTek, UTEC, XEDE, and some other stand alone systems (Hydra, AEM?). AP when it comes out for '05 will obviously be a hot choice here too. I chose EcuTek because I'm not a fan of piggy-backs for a number of reasons that I won't enumerate here.

Stage 1 - Add TBE of some sort (many options, catted or not, etc.) and change EM map to take advantage of better flow. At stage 1, I gained 50whp and 75wtq, dyno proven. Also boost response was significantly increased. This is where I am now, and the car is pretty darn fast. If I had to guess, with a really good driver and optimal track conditions, the car could probably do mid 12's. That's just BS talk though until it's done, but I think it's comparable to what others have achieved with similar mods. Also, I'm into road racing, not drag, so I may never find out ;-)

Stage 2 - At this point you will need to upgrade the turbo and fuel system. You will have to chose the turbo that is right for your application and power desires. If you're looking to make huge power, you might even stengthen the motor at this point. The point being: know your goals, choose the right turbo based on that, and then make sure you supply it with the right supporting mods to do it right and make it last.

- Josh