*Get Rid* of Swirl Marks = Menzerna

Alcheringa · 10-05-2005, 07:14 PM

When I bought my 05 WRB with 400 miles a few months ago, it had swirl marks. Having always been a Meguiar's guy, I tried to hand polish it, applied a glaze, and then a coat of wax. Looked nice and shiny, but no dice.

The truth is, if you want to safely *remove* swirl marks rather than *hide* them as many products do, you simply have to hit it with a good orbital buffer.

The Porter Cable 7424 is probably the best on the market, is perfectly safe to use as a beginner, and chops right through imperfections like they are butter. It will shock you when you realize the difference you made.

So now the next question was what product to use? Meguiar's is OK, but not exactly top shelf--unless it's the top of a shelf at Target.

After way too much investigation I dediced to go with the German Menzerna line, and I'll be damned if it did not completely do the trick. They actually have five products, in order of use:

Power Gloss (removes 1000-1500 grit defects)
Intensive Polish (removes 2000 grit defects)
Final Polish II
Final Touch Glaze
FMJ

I applied two coats of each of the last four, and not only were the swirls gone, but the shine was wet, deep and glossy. I can't say enough good things about it. Incredible finish, and better than you think.

The FMJ is a synthetic wax that will blow your sox off. Comes pretty close to a high-quality carnuba and you can layer it until your arm falls off. And you get a higher resistance to the environment, which is great out here in a furnace like Arizona.

There is also a High Gloss Acrylic Shield spray to use after washing inbetween waxings, or for detailing.

The only distributor is Proper Auto Care. They offer all of their products, with in-depth explanations and suggestions, and have great packages with or without the PC 7424. I got my PC from another vendor, but only because I hadn't found these guys yet. I would have saved a lot of money going through them, though.

They shipped my order out quickly, responded personally to my questions and are an overall great company to deal with. It's a Mom and Pops organization, and I am going to get everything from them so long as they are around.

Autopia has a lot of good info, too.

Also, do yourself a favor and buy some good quality microfiber cloths. They worked like a charm--far better than even a big, plush terry cloth towel. The technology is there now. May as well use it.

And drying the car properly is key, too. People use anything from leaf blowers (didn't work for me) to synthetic towels. I use The Absorber, and it has been great.

Anyway. I sound like a spokesman, but the stuff is excellent. If you are into getting as good of a result as you can it is worth a try.

Contact me if you want photos. I tried to include the links to the products so you could read the write-ups, but it won't let me because I haven't posted 10 times yet? Oh well.

Later.

Singletrack · 10-05-2005, 07:18 PM

I've used the same save meguiar's #7 as the glaze and had terrific results. I've taken out water marks from acid rain.

UrbanGunz · 10-05-2005, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singletrack

I've used the same save meguiar's #7 as the glaze and had terrific results. I've taken out water marks from acid rain.

Reeeaaalllllyyyyy. This is great news for me. My 1993 GMC Typhoon has Acid rain marks on it that are impossible to get off. Im gonna have to try it.

Alcheringa · 10-05-2005, 08:11 PM

Don't get me wrong, you guys who use Meguiar's. Their Professional line will give pretty good results.

But Menzerna is different. It's manufactured according to higher standards, and used by a lot of the top-end German auto manufacturers. It's got extra pop, and a great alternative to the stuff available off the shelf here in America.

I had some pretty bad etching from hard water as well, and no matter how much I rubbed it by hand with Meguiar's #2 it didn't budge. With the first pass of the PC and Intensive Polish it was almost gone.

I guess I've said about all I can. Check it out.

chancers · 10-06-2005, 06:07 AM

I've been thinking about getting a porter cable and removing the swirls from my 2 black cars. How do you use the PC? Can you end up screwing up the coat or make things worse? While I'm a fanatic about car care products (like Zaino, Formula113, p21s), I have no experience with using a PC. Any other tips?

Alcheringa · 10-06-2005, 12:11 PM

The PC 7424 doesn't really require any skill (unlike a rotary), and it seems to me it is almost impossible to cause damage to your finish when following the simple directions--which amount to little more than:

1) squirt some product on the pad
2) spread it on the quadrant you are working
3) buff a few overlapping north-south and east-west figure eights until is almost dry
4) and then wipe by hand (my preference) or buff the residue off with a microfiber bonnet
5) check to see if you've achieved the desired result
6) if not, do it over again

Depending on the product, it is important to sweeten the pad with a mist of water or detailing spray prior to its first use (when it is dry) as well as make sure it does not become too caked with residue. If I happen to run out of extra pads for a specific purpose, I'll just stop and go wash them in the sink, spin them dry and continue. Makes it work a lot nicer, and you don't end up with as much of a mess. Sometimes the pads can absorb a lot of product and start to sling it everywhere.

As you are doing this, keep a 5-gallon bucket with soapy water nearby and plop the pads in that you won't need anymore during the day--then clean them by hand. You shouldn't toss them into the machine wash.

And that's the other issue--pad quality. Stay away from the crap you find at Autozone or Pep Boys. I use foam Lake Country Variable Contact pads. Sonus makes some nice foam pads, and, really, any reputable vendor should have a decent selection. Take care of them, and they will last a long time.

Unless you are dealing with an older car with a heavily oxidized finish or severe imperfections, stay away from a wool cutting pad. It's a bit much, and probably the only way you could actually do harm with the PC. You are better off using a foam cutting or polishing pad over several passes than burning the clearcoat in one with the wool. And I really do think a microfiber cloth is the best way to go for the final buffing of the residue. It is too much trouble to slip a bonnet on and off, and you get more surface area with the towel.

You'd get the hang of it in a few minutes, and quickly realize how much more effect you can achieve in half the time. It really makes it a snap. Spend the same amount time you would by hand, and you'll be amazed.

Some people suggest taping off all of the trim to avoid hitting it. Others just get close with the PC, and then do the edges by hand. I just polish away, and the Menzerna stuff never leaves a mark. The Final Touch Glaze and FMJ actually shine it up some.

Like I said, Proper Auto Care has a few great PC packages (that I wish I would have known about before getting mine) as well as a few Menzerna packages. You can't go wrong with either, so long as you are willing to spend a little cash.

It's one of those things where once you do it you don't ever look back.

Alcheringa · 10-06-2005, 12:30 PM

And I know this could spawn an *entirely* separate thread, but I have to mention my other favorite: 303 Aerospace Protectant.

Incredible on all external black trim, as well as vinyl interiors. In Arizona the water is hard, the air is bad and the sun is destructive.

I've been using it exclusively on the STi and the trim looks clean, nourished and refreshed from wash to wash. Started to use it on the interior just because I was curious, and it works the same. You don't get that overly shiny, overly greasy effect. Just looks clean and natural somehow, and I am sold.

The great thing is you don't have to be particularly careful with it. It wipes easily off paint and glass if you get sloppy, and works on just about every surface.

And, yes, you guessed it, Proper Auto Care carries it--I think I need to start buying up stock from these guys.

You can also hit a local REI or boat dealer.

I'm off my soapbox for a minute.

Singletrack · 10-06-2005, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrbanGunz

Reeeaaalllllyyyyy. This is great news for me. My 1993 GMC Typhoon has Acid rain marks on it that are impossible to get off. Im gonna have to try it.

Yah - you have to put some muscle into it and use a little more speed though. At least for my water spots - they were pretty bad. It will also take multiple applications. The real solution is a pro with a rotary buffer...unless you have mild marks.

chancers · 10-07-2005, 09:32 AM

Alcheringa -

Thanks for the info - very helpful. I'll be looking to buy a PC package soon.

Singletrack · 10-07-2005, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcheringa

Don't get me wrong, you guys who use Meguiar's. Their Professional line will give pretty good results.

But Menzerna is different. It's manufactured according to higher standards, and used by a lot of the top-end German auto manufacturers. It's got extra pop, and a great alternative to the stuff available off the shelf here in America.

I had some pretty bad etching from hard water as well, and no matter how much I rubbed it by hand with Meguiar's #2 it didn't budge. With the first pass of the PC and Intensive Polish it was almost gone.

I guess I've said about all I can. Check it out.

No hand product from anyone is going to compare with a random orbital application. Meguiar's has comparable products that perform just as well as Menzerna.

No offense, but I'll let our detailers take the pepsi challenge against the German's any day of the week. The car capitol of the world is California, not Germany ; )

Alcheringa · 10-07-2005, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singletrack

No hand product from anyone is going to compare with a random orbital application. Meguiar's has comparable products that perform just as well as Menzerna.

No offense, but I'll let our detailers take the pepsi challenge against the German's any day of the week. The car capitol of the world is California, not Germany ; )

An orbital buffer is a great *safe* way for nearly anyone to do give their finish an incredible shine? Yes.

Meguire's has some good upper end products (is there an echo in here)? Yes.

Can you compare a petroleum-based line to a synthetic water-emulsed product that is manufactured in a country that adheres to a standard unheard of in the good ole USA? Only if you are smoking crack.

But you are a Pennsylvanian who has American detailers taking a Pepsi challenge against the nation of Germany under the premise that California is the car capital of world, so I guess you answered that for us.

If it wasn't for your excellent taste in cars I'd have to question your character, man

)

Singletrack · 10-09-2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcheringa

An orbital buffer is a great *safe* way for nearly anyone to do give their finish an incredible shine? Yes.

Meguire's has some good upper end products (is there an echo in here)? Yes.

Can you compare a petroleum-based line to a synthetic water-emulsed product that is manufactured in a country that adheres to a standard unheard of in the good ole USA? Only if you are smoking crack.

But you are a Pennsylvanian who has American detailers taking a Pepsi challenge against the nation of Germany under the premise that California is the car capital of world, so I guess you answered that for us.

If it wasn't for your excellent taste in cars I'd have to question your character, man

)

I love the "it's German so it must be better mentality"....and Cali IS the car capitol of the world.

I'm also not originally from Pennsylvania and my background is rather diverse. Regardless, I resent the implication that you are making.

What is your association with Menzerna? Just curious. If you are looking to flame people that don't agree with your view...well, you came to the wrong web board.

jason bouchard · 10-09-2005, 05:41 PM

pics ? before after ?? im a pic whore

Alcheringa · 10-10-2005, 12:30 PM

You can relax. I was toying with you. California born and raised, and I share your opinion. Meguiar's has some good stuff.

And I have no relationship with Menzerna beyond giving it a shot and experiencing incredible results. I wish I did have some connection--maybe I'd get a frigging discount.

Besides, I think it's the American that usually is the Napoleon out of the bunch--such a defensive automotive flock. It used to be you could get into a fist fight over Detroit's position in the hierarchy.

And before you pounce on some kind of perceived anti-American sentiment, six years in the Special Forces here.

I think we need unwavering people like you. They keep the machine rolling.

Cheers.

Singletrack · 10-10-2005, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alcheringa

You can relax. I was toying with you. California born and raised, and I share your opinion. Meguiar's has some good stuff.

And I have no relationship with Menzerna beyond giving it a shot and experiencing incredible results. I wish I did have some connection--maybe I'd get a frigging discount.

Besides, I think it's the American that usually is the Napoleon out of the bunch--such a defensive automotive flock. It used to be you could get into a fist fight over Detroit's position in the hierarchy.

And before you pounce on some kind of perceived anti-American sentiment, six years in the Special Forces here.

I think we need unwavering people like you. They keep the machine rolling.

Cheers.

Arrogant people are so amusing. Thanks for your service though...

10-05-2005, 07:14 PM	#1
Alcheringa Amateur STI Driver Car: 05 WRB Location: Arizona Posts: 14 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	Get Rid of Swirl Marks = Menzerna When I bought my 05 WRB with 400 miles a few months ago, it had swirl marks. Having always been a Meguiar's guy, I tried to hand polish it, applied a glaze, and then a coat of wax. Looked nice and shiny, but no dice. The truth is, if you want to safely remove swirl marks rather than hide them as many products do, you simply have to hit it with a good orbital buffer. The Porter Cable 7424 is probably the best on the market, is perfectly safe to use as a beginner, and chops right through imperfections like they are butter. It will shock you when you realize the difference you made. So now the next question was what product to use? Meguiar's is OK, but not exactly top shelf--unless it's the top of a shelf at Target. After way too much investigation I dediced to go with the German Menzerna line, and I'll be damned if it did not completely do the trick. They actually have five products, in order of use: Power Gloss (removes 1000-1500 grit defects) Intensive Polish (removes 2000 grit defects) Final Polish II Final Touch Glaze FMJ I applied two coats of each of the last four, and not only were the swirls gone, but the shine was wet, deep and glossy. I can't say enough good things about it. Incredible finish, and better than you think. The FMJ is a synthetic wax that will blow your sox off. Comes pretty close to a high-quality carnuba and you can layer it until your arm falls off. And you get a higher resistance to the environment, which is great out here in a furnace like Arizona. There is also a High Gloss Acrylic Shield spray to use after washing inbetween waxings, or for detailing. The only distributor is Proper Auto Care. They offer all of their products, with in-depth explanations and suggestions, and have great packages with or without the PC 7424. I got my PC from another vendor, but only because I hadn't found these guys yet. I would have saved a lot of money going through them, though. They shipped my order out quickly, responded personally to my questions and are an overall great company to deal with. It's a Mom and Pops organization, and I am going to get everything from them so long as they are around. Autopia has a lot of good info, too. Also, do yourself a favor and buy some good quality microfiber cloths. They worked like a charm--far better than even a big, plush terry cloth towel. The technology is there now. May as well use it. And drying the car properly is key, too. People use anything from leaf blowers (didn't work for me) to synthetic towels. I use The Absorber, and it has been great. Anyway. I sound like a spokesman, but the stuff is excellent. If you are into getting as good of a result as you can it is worth a try. Contact me if you want photos. I tried to include the links to the products so you could read the write-ups, but it won't let me because I haven't posted 10 times yet? Oh well. Later. This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

10-05-2005, 07:18 PM	#2
Singletrack Spec C Club Car: 04 Impreza WRX STi Fav Mod: La Quarta Stella Location: Blitzburgh, PA Posts: 1,440 Join Date: Sep 2003 Trader Rating: (2)	I've used the same save meguiar's #7 as the glaze and had terrific results. I've taken out water marks from acid rain.

10-05-2005, 08:11 PM	#4
Alcheringa Amateur STI Driver Car: 05 WRB Location: Arizona Posts: 14 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	Don't get me wrong, you guys who use Meguiar's. Their Professional line will give pretty good results. But Menzerna is different. It's manufactured according to higher standards, and used by a lot of the top-end German auto manufacturers. It's got extra pop, and a great alternative to the stuff available off the shelf here in America. I had some pretty bad etching from hard water as well, and no matter how much I rubbed it by hand with Meguiar's #2 it didn't budge. With the first pass of the PC and Intensive Polish it was almost gone. I guess I've said about all I can. Check it out.

10-06-2005, 06:07 AM	#5
chancers Junior STI Driver Car: 04 STi wrb Fav Mod: not even a radio yet Location: Texas Posts: 79 Join Date: Jan 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	I've been thinking about getting a porter cable and removing the swirls from my 2 black cars. How do you use the PC? Can you end up screwing up the coat or make things worse? While I'm a fanatic about car care products (like Zaino, Formula113, p21s), I have no experience with using a PC. Any other tips?

10-06-2005, 12:11 PM	#6
Alcheringa Amateur STI Driver Car: 05 WRB Location: Arizona Posts: 14 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	The PC 7424 doesn't really require any skill (unlike a rotary), and it seems to me it is almost impossible to cause damage to your finish when following the simple directions--which amount to little more than: 1) squirt some product on the pad 2) spread it on the quadrant you are working 3) buff a few overlapping north-south and east-west figure eights until is almost dry 4) and then wipe by hand (my preference) or buff the residue off with a microfiber bonnet 5) check to see if you've achieved the desired result 6) if not, do it over again Depending on the product, it is important to sweeten the pad with a mist of water or detailing spray prior to its first use (when it is dry) as well as make sure it does not become too caked with residue. If I happen to run out of extra pads for a specific purpose, I'll just stop and go wash them in the sink, spin them dry and continue. Makes it work a lot nicer, and you don't end up with as much of a mess. Sometimes the pads can absorb a lot of product and start to sling it everywhere. As you are doing this, keep a 5-gallon bucket with soapy water nearby and plop the pads in that you won't need anymore during the day--then clean them by hand. You shouldn't toss them into the machine wash. And that's the other issue--pad quality. Stay away from the crap you find at Autozone or Pep Boys. I use foam Lake Country Variable Contact pads. Sonus makes some nice foam pads, and, really, any reputable vendor should have a decent selection. Take care of them, and they will last a long time. Unless you are dealing with an older car with a heavily oxidized finish or severe imperfections, stay away from a wool cutting pad. It's a bit much, and probably the only way you could actually do harm with the PC. You are better off using a foam cutting or polishing pad over several passes than burning the clearcoat in one with the wool. And I really do think a microfiber cloth is the best way to go for the final buffing of the residue. It is too much trouble to slip a bonnet on and off, and you get more surface area with the towel. You'd get the hang of it in a few minutes, and quickly realize how much more effect you can achieve in half the time. It really makes it a snap. Spend the same amount time you would by hand, and you'll be amazed. Some people suggest taping off all of the trim to avoid hitting it. Others just get close with the PC, and then do the edges by hand. I just polish away, and the Menzerna stuff never leaves a mark. The Final Touch Glaze and FMJ actually shine it up some. Like I said, Proper Auto Care has a few great PC packages (that I wish I would have known about before getting mine) as well as a few Menzerna packages. You can't go wrong with either, so long as you are willing to spend a little cash. It's one of those things where once you do it you don't ever look back.

10-06-2005, 12:30 PM	#7
Alcheringa Amateur STI Driver Car: 05 WRB Location: Arizona Posts: 14 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	And I know this could spawn an entirely separate thread, but I have to mention my other favorite: 303 Aerospace Protectant. Incredible on all external black trim, as well as vinyl interiors. In Arizona the water is hard, the air is bad and the sun is destructive. I've been using it exclusively on the STi and the trim looks clean, nourished and refreshed from wash to wash. Started to use it on the interior just because I was curious, and it works the same. You don't get that overly shiny, overly greasy effect. Just looks clean and natural somehow, and I am sold. The great thing is you don't have to be particularly careful with it. It wipes easily off paint and glass if you get sloppy, and works on just about every surface. And, yes, you guessed it, Proper Auto Care carries it--I think I need to start buying up stock from these guys. You can also hit a local REI or boat dealer. I'm off my soapbox for a minute.

10-07-2005, 09:32 AM	#9
chancers Junior STI Driver Car: 04 STi wrb Fav Mod: not even a radio yet Location: Texas Posts: 79 Join Date: Jan 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Alcheringa - Thanks for the info - very helpful. I'll be looking to buy a PC package soon.

10-09-2005, 05:41 PM	#13
jason bouchard Professional STI Racer Car: 06 STI Fav Mod: the driver Location: NJ Posts: 633 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (2)	pics ? before after ?? im a pic whore

10-10-2005, 12:30 PM	#14
Alcheringa Amateur STI Driver Car: 05 WRB Location: Arizona Posts: 14 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	You can relax. I was toying with you. California born and raised, and I share your opinion. Meguiar's has some good stuff. And I have no relationship with Menzerna beyond giving it a shot and experiencing incredible results. I wish I did have some connection--maybe I'd get a frigging discount. Besides, I think it's the American that usually is the Napoleon out of the bunch--such a defensive automotive flock. It used to be you could get into a fist fight over Detroit's position in the hierarchy. And before you pounce on some kind of perceived anti-American sentiment, six years in the Special Forces here. I think we need unwavering people like you. They keep the machine rolling. Cheers.