[Mi_Black_Pearl]

Perhaps you may already know how much i hate the fact that they have to spread about a ton/ft of salt out on the roads with my posts stating that comment in almost every "snow" or "winter" thread. I dont understand why people have to be out on the roads during a storm if they can't handle it or to invest in some winter tires. It only causes damage to our vehicles and the environment. (it's like a scheme). A few passes with the plows along the sun imho are enough to clear and melt it away later on when it stops and when the fun ends. Dont get me wrong, I do certainly enjoy the cold and snow for the duration of the winter season, however, i simply cant stand the thought of how much damage all this salt is causing despite how many layers of wax, amount of washes, etc...that and then the fact that i live literally on the beach so my poor sti is taking the hit of salt in every direction...

so is there anyone here probably with an expertise in chemistry, who can advise to me of how much damage it is actually causing? All I know is that the worst probably comes from when it's just sitting on the paint with the sun blazing directly on it during the day. Is there a scientific average rate at which rust forms?

Just wondering so that I know how much time i have before so that i can find time to take it to the car wash if and when it's too freezing to wash it myself. Or am I being paranoid in that its actually more minimal than i thought.

Also, are there any products out there to slow any rusting/salt damage on other parts besides wax for the paint?

Thanks for any info ....John A. Lucas

[howboutthemapplz]

Originally Posted by Mi_Black_Pearl

Perhaps you may already know how much i hate the fact that they have to spread about a ton/ft of salt out on the roads with my posts stating that comment in almost every "snow" or "winter" thread. I dont understand why people have to be out on the roads during a storm if they can't handle it or to invest in some winter tires. It only causes damage to our vehicles and the environment. (it's like a scheme). A few passes with the plows along the sun imho are enough to clear and melt it away later on when it stops and when the fun ends. Dont get me wrong, I do certainly enjoy the cold and snow for the duration of the winter season, however, i simply cant stand the thought of how much damage all this salt is causing despite how many layers of wax, amount of washes, etc...that and then the fact that i live literally on the beach so my poor sti is taking the hit of salt in every direction...

so is there anyone here probably with an expertise in chemistry, who can advise to me of how much damage it is actually causing? All I know is that the worst probably comes from when it's just sitting on the paint with the sun blazing directly on it during the day. Is there a scientific average rate at which rust forms?

Just wondering so that I know how much time i have before so that i can find time to take it to the car wash if and when it's too freezing to wash it myself. Or am I being paranoid in that its actually more minimal than i thought.

Also, are there any products out there to slow any rusting/salt damage on other parts besides wax for the paint?

Thanks for any info ....John A. Lucas

Very interesting topic, i see this thread staying alive for a few days...

However, i hear that if you get salt on the car, and then park in the garage (40+ degrees F) the salt will erode your car and cause it to rust faster... this happens because the chemical reaction happens easier and faster when its warmer. (unscientific explaination i know, but it makes sense).

parking in the garage---> this sucks! (saving carpet = rusty car) so in turn smells like ass, and rusts. The clearcoat is a whole nother story, (i clay bar my car 2-3 times per season. wax and then use some nasty paint sealant). this in turn results in a quick spray with the pressure washer at any given time (during the driving season) for a freshly waxed appearance.
Underbody of my car... flame if you wish, spray on rubberized coating... Autozone for 5 bucks a can. 5 cans. <5 lbs. (waterproof). cant go wrong.

My car will never see salt. except out the window of the heated garage that it sits in from November until March (3 rains after the last salt), and it is under a camera that is hooked up watching and recording it 24/7.
i dont know too much scientific, but i know a southern car is worth more, cause it has never been exposed to the salty deathness that northerners see every year....

Paint sealant and under coating are the two things i would do to help your car.. Apply when the car is freshly cleaned...
with the paint sealant, do not go cheap. get the two stage co polymer PITA stuff to put on. this is AMAZING. the dealer showed me this stuff that they put on the car. then sprayed rust-o-leum spray paint on a brand new porsche waiting 15-20 mins and wiped it off with a damp rag... amazing...

you might find this helpful.. this is a great website... Howstuffworks "How does rust work?"

[fourseasonsandles]

I am not a chemist but live in the north and deal with salt on the roads every year. Im not sure how the salt effects the paint of the car, but what you need to worry about is any exposed metal.

The salt will cause the metal to rust/oxidize sooner and the body/under carriage of the car will not last as long as say, a Florida car.

I honestly wouldnt worry too much about the paint as long as it is waxed.

Maybe someone else with more experience can chime in. Peleg?

[jnprn2003]

Buy a beater!

[Szumita]

my sti loves the salt. haha. i just make sure to wash it ALOT, and the underneath alot as well.

[VanishingPoint]

If the roads are not salted they will ice up from traffic driving over it. That said I HATE salt, I even feel dirty when it gets all over the car.

Went through 2 winters with the 05 and it came through pretty good. I would wait until the roads were dry after a snow and spary it off at the car wash. Most cars will rust from the bottom or inside out at the bottom. When you wash it make sure you spray the bottom of the car as good as you can more so then the paint. Wheel wells and front grill need a good rince also. Sometimes I lift the hood and spray around the edges, but I try to avoid the engine.
If you get the salt off fairly quick (a few days) you will be fine. Cars built today are much better at fighting rust then ever. Nothing is perfect and if you change your exhaust the bolts may rust a little quicker.
Washing the underside and not letting it sit with all that salt for a long time will do wonders for keeping it rust free.
In other words dont get lazy I know it can be a pain when it snows every few days.

Tony

[supermarkus]

Make sure you flood the area between the wheel well liner and the side skirt when you wash. Salt and dirt can build up there and eat up your rocker panels.

[LSE]

i wash it after every snow and everytime it looks salted. this can amount to as much as 3x per week. My paint looks great. I'm more worried about rocks and chips.

[Mi_Black_Pearl]

Originally Posted by howboutthemapplz

Very interesting topic, i see this thread staying alive for a few days...

However, i hear that if you get salt on the car, and then park in the garage (40+ degrees F) the salt will erode your car and cause it to rust faster... this happens because the chemical reaction happens easier and faster when its warmer. (unscientific explaination i know, but it makes sense).

parking in the garage---> this sucks! (saving carpet = rusty car) so in turn smells like ass, and rusts.

aaaahhhh! that explains a lot...when i took my car to XXtuning, chris mentioned the car smelling funny on the underbody (as though if i was just done driving through a cow farm)..which was odd because my car had been sitting for weeks (already with my super detail just before i left) while i was on vacation just before and i didnt run over anything or drive through a farm on my way to xxtuning...however, there was a TON of salt on the roads on my way...and i also park my car in a garage every night which would explain the odd funky smells from time to time
so anyway thanks guys...will be doing a wash and wax tomorrow asap-lol...just got to deal with some morning classes then the day actually looks like a good and warm enough one for a wash (40 degrees)...got to pick up some oil for an oil change soon too so i'll be looking for that underbody coating as well for when i go to autozone (do i have to watch certain places where not to spray it-like exhaust for instance) and would i be able to pick up some of that paint sealant??...car has been sitting salt drenched since the sunday night storm...

[sujak]

after every snow storm i wash my car (can be once a week or twice a week) i go to a DIY pressure washer and always make sure to wash underneath the car from all 4 points front/rear/rightstide/leftside every wheel-well.

having a white car and salt i obviously notice a lot of rail dust and crappy "car-wash" job, but im more concerned with removing all the salt then making it look pretty.

[howboutthemapplz]

Originally Posted by Mi_Black_Pearl

aaaahhhh! that explains a lot...when i took my car to XXtuning, chris mentioned the car smelling funny on the underbody (as though if i was just done driving through a cow farm)..which was odd because my car had been sitting for weeks (already with my super detail just before i left) while i was on vacation just before and i didnt run over anything or drive through a farm on my way to xxtuning...however, there was a TON of salt on the roads on my way...and i also park my car in a garage every night which would explain the odd funky smells from time to time
so anyway thanks guys...will be doing a wash and wax tomorrow asap-lol...just got to deal with some morning classes then the day actually looks like a good and warm enough one for a wash (40 degrees)...got to pick up some oil for an oil change soon too so i'll be looking for that underbody coating as well for when i go to autozone (do i have to watch certain places where not to spray it-like exhaust for instance) and would i be able to pick up some of that paint sealant??...car has been sitting salt drenched since the sunday night storm...

Yeah, keep it off any nuts, bolts, etc, exhaust. i basically spray it on the frame... AFTER you clean it up real good... (get all the salt off) otherwise your locking that salt inbetween the frame and the coating... Any paint sealant at autozone is cheap sh!t. go online and pay a few bucks. If you really care about how it looks, wait until spring time. buy a Clay bar (20 bucks) takes off EVERYTHING from bugs to tar, tree sap etc. Clay bar the whole car, then wax it, then use the paint sealant... This is what i do to my car, and it still sparkles.
but for the coating stick to the frame mostly. let me know how this works for you. Get some PICS up as well... GL
-Mike

[nanotech]

Well I have a degree in Metallurgical Engineering, so here is my 2c.

The kinetics of a chemical rxn often increase as a function of temperature. The oxidation of iron, rust, follows this rule. Also, the lower the pH (more H+ ions) in solution also means that it will corrode faster because of an increase in solubility of the water containing corrosive ions as well as the acidity. Water assists in the corrosion of Iron since it can oxidize in and produce more H+ ions while doing it.

Salt definetely speeds up the process, but water is your biggest enemy. Salt allows the mobility of charges to speed up, increasing the reaction of Fe.

4Fe(s)+2H2O+3O2=2Fe2O3*H2O Reaction of Iron with Water in presence of Oxygen

The resultant rust (hematite or magnetite) takes up more space then regular Fe now that it has oxygen and is hydrated and swells and therefore flakes off.

A thin coating of organics on metal can stop rust. King Tut's knife was iron (very rare back then) and had no rust on it when found.

On another note, aluminum and titanium instantly "rust" and form a protective layer a few nanometers thick that actually act as a barrier to further oxidation. This is called passivation, and when people anodize aluminum, they are increasing the amount of rust on the surface purposely to make that barrier even stronger.

[sujak]

im not chemist but from reading the above, wouldn't the best solution for us be just to soak/pressure wash the bottom of the car with a base (Soap in this case) and call it a day, to neutralize the pH?

[Mi_Black_Pearl]

Originally Posted by nanotech

Well I have a degree in Metallurgical Engineering, so here is my 2c.

The kinetics of a chemical rxn often increase as a function of temperature. The oxidation of iron, rust, follows this rule. Also, the lower the pH (more H+ ions) in solution also means that it will corrode faster because of an increase in solubility of the water containing corrosive ions as well as the acidity. Water assists in the corrosion of Iron since it can oxidize in and produce more H+ ions while doing it.

Salt definetely speeds up the process, but water is your biggest enemy. Salt allows the mobility of charges to speed up, increasing the reaction of Fe.

4Fe(s)+2H2O+3O2=2Fe2O3*H2O Reaction of Iron with Water in presence of Oxygen

The resultant rust (hematite or magnetite) takes up more space then regular Fe now that it has oxygen and is hydrated and swells and therefore flakes off.

A thin coating of organics on metal can stop rust. King Tut's knife was iron (very rare back then) and had no rust on it when found.

On another note, aluminum and titanium instantly "rust" and form a protective layer a few nanometers thick that actually act as a barrier to further oxidation. This is called passivation, and when people anodize aluminum, they are increasing the amount of rust on the surface purposely to make that barrier even stronger.

oxidation, pH, kinetics, reaction, etc...good ol terms reminding me of chemistry a few semesters back-lol...

[Rootus]

I'm so glad we don't use salt in Oregon. They hose the roads down with deicer that seems effective enough, and it gets the car really dirty, but it doesn't cause it to rust. Occasionally they talk about trying salt, but the chorus of "NOOOOOOO" is loud . Plus it corrodes things the state does care about preserving, like bridges and stuff.