[WolfPlayer]

Oh - if you can, would you mind posting a log (including injector pulse width, load, maf v, etc). I am curious to see how your injector pulse width jumps in relation to how mine does (in the context of load).

I'm thinking that there is a map not available to anyone yet - something like "Fueling vs. Differential Load" where "Fueling" could be Acceleration Enrichment or Power Enrichment or XXXXXX (make up something here).

t

[crystal_Imprezav]

Will do tomorrow when it stops raining. Im just worried when the meth goes back in, I will probably be running really rich, but I think I can mess with the controller to deal with it. We shall see.

[WolfPlayer]

Yea. I want to order the following domain name:

www.iaintgotnoboostleak.com

I pressurized the FMIC at the turbo with 25psi. I was super surprised about how quiet everything was. I was expecting to hear air escaping from somewhere but it was actually pretty tight. Very nice. No issues with my FMIC and it's plumbing!

http://www.bescaredracing.com/sti/to...r/DSC07257.JPG

I also pressurized the intake side to 15psi. I detected one small leak coming from the Perrin EBCS. I'm not worried about it but I will pull it out and check it with the MityVac when I get a chance.

http://www.bescaredracing.com/sti/to...r/DSC07259.JPG

Yeehaa.

So, at this point, I am REALLY thinking of some type of differential load/boost/MAF table that injects more fuel based off a change in one of those items. A really easy test would be to spool to my max spool very slowly. Maybe shoot for 20psi @ 4000rpms instead of 3000rpms.

t

[crystal_Imprezav]

Ok SOOOOO after spending a couple of hours laying on the couch after x-mas dinner, I rescaled my ignition, fuel, and DA tables very precisely inputing/exporting values into excel to make sure everything checked out at various loads and etc. Since I rescaled my loads during my previous 'holy load' avcs, some places in my fuel and timing maps were too far to the right which I must have overlooked the first time around which was probably causing me to run a little richer and less timing at some points that I wanted. I shifted everything to where it should be, and also rescaled my DA to a value of 10 to give the sensors more control with any possible noise it hears. Then I went into the intake calibration and tinkered with some voltage sites at around 3-4.3 volts tweaking them a bit to get them to run a little leaner during spoolup and right before peak boost. I then went into the fuel map again, and recalibrated the load/rpm sites where I would be spooling and hitting peak boost to basically lean it out a bit more due to the little more lag, in other words pretty much just moving down the previous calibrations from where I would usually hit peak boost at 2800rpm's to around 3600-4000 rpms where I now see peak boost and the rich spike. After this I went into the boost calibrations and pretty much locked the WG up to 2600rpms to about 90% at 2800rpms to help out with spool, added a little more authority to the turbo dynamics just in case I overshoot anything and did a tiny bit of recalibrating to the boost targets to accommodate the lag and just got back from a test run. WOW, I must say all that work was worth it. 1st-3rd seem the same as before hitting a 11.1 from peak VE to redline and then a 4th gear test. BAM! 10.9 at peak boost to about a 11.4:1-11.1:1 all the way to redline. It felt wonderful. Almost felt better than my meth tune hitting 20psi at 4000rpms tapering to 15.5psi at redline. Looking at the dashboard DA stayed strong at 10 and the wideband gauge held steady. Didn't get a good log b/c I hit the wrong key on the keyboard and the wideband was not set up on my laptop but I will try and get a good one this afternoon. The top end felt amazingly strong with about 23-24* of timing at 5500rpms and the top end def felt stronger than my meth tune. Now I can't wait to get the meth back in and see what I can do with that. Woot, the FMIC was worth the pain of an install now. Not as laggy as I thought after the tune, and now the torque is back with afr's back to where they should be. Between shifts, it now doesn't run rich as before but I must say you do need to shift EXTRA quick almost flat foot shifting to keep the air in the pipes or you will bog.

[WolfPlayer]

Awesome news that you have yours running the way that you want!

I'm just not a huge fan of fudging the MAF and fuel curves to account for the extra fuel injected. I'd love to see a graph of your MAF curve just for the heck of it. I am betting that it dips hard at those particular MAF voltages. It would suck to be accelerating up a steep hill and somehow hit those voltages and go lean Maybe that isn't a possibility because the fudged part is so high in the MAF curve.

Don't get me wrong - maybe this is the only solution. I just hate fudging something. Grrrrr.

... maybe I will find myself doing the same thing. But, I really don't want to . I know it is as easy as leaning out the low RPM/higher load points and adjusting the MAF voltage a little lower. But, the fuel table is nuts on AND my MAF curve is nuts on. If they are so 'on', I shouldn't have to change them.

IMHO, this is what I will term "MAF Lag". The turbo spools and sucks in a huge amount of air. The ECU sees this and injects extra fuel. Unfortunately, the air charge arrives a split second later. MAF Lag (actually an air charge lag due to increasing the volume after the turbo by about 5 times ).

t

[crystal_Imprezav]

I didn't change the MAF THAT much. Im talking like 4% lower. My curve is still as 'stock like' with a smooth linear/parabolic slope. Ill post it for the heck of it. This is for a k&n typhoon (had to switch back to the regular filter b/c the ru2800 would no longer fit), no meth, 93oct from citgo w/ 10% ethanol:

In reality this is what the ecu is seeing. It is seeing less are during spool up due to the extra piping and then when peak boost hits, there after it is seeing more air flow but just a bit longer than usual. Therefore I lowered the spool up voltages and increased slightly the voltages after it see's the peak load.

[WolfPlayer]

Yea, I don't see a huge change in your MAF curve (4% isn't much at all). Did you lean out your 2600-3000rpm area in the fuel table significantly? If so, then ...

What do your AFRs look like if you hold the rpms at 4000rpms and then floor it (compared to just flooring it at like 2400rpms)?

t

[R4ND0M_AX3]

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

I'm just not a huge fan of fudging the MAF and fuel curves to account for the extra fuel injected....It would suck to be accelerating up a steep hill and somehow hit those voltages and go lean Maybe that isn't a possibility because the fudged part is so high in the MAF curve.

Don't get me wrong - maybe this is the only solution. I just hate fudging something. Grrrrr.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

IMHO, this is what I will term "MAF Lag". The turbo spools and sucks in a huge amount of air. The ECU sees this and injects extra fuel. Unfortunately, the air charge arrives a split second later. MAF Lag (actually an air charge lag due to increasing the volume after the turbo by about 5 times.

I think if I go with a FMIC I would be stuck on the fence about a blow through setup. But that just introduces more issues and work-arounds that makes me feel icky.

[crystal_Imprezav]

Not much at all, pretty much just shifted the fuel targets down a few rpm's. When I floor it from higher rpm's it still hits a ~10.9:1 or so afr. This leads me to believe that the changes in the intake calibration and boost charts help most of the differences.

[WolfPlayer]

crystal,

It's easy to see the differences after viewing your pictures above. At 3.7 load and 2800rpms you have 12.8:1 AFRs. Yea. I can't do that. You also have 12.63:1 specified at 3200rpms. Yea, lol, I can't do that either.

I can hit max boost at 2800 in 4th gear. No way can I specify 12.8:1 AFRs there and have it make sense. I have 11.7:1 specified there (and, honestly, that is almost too lean for me in terms of the table data). I have 11:1 specified at 3200rpms. That's a 1.5 AFR difference in our tables at 3200rpms. Long live Meth injection (lol). I also have about 1 point difference at the higher rpms too. Mine is 10.88:1 and it jives with what I actually get on the wideband. Yours is low 12's. Let me guess, you are hitting very high 10's between shifts? Makes sense since I am getting mid 9's. It looks to me like we end up having the same issue, just with different target values. I am targetting 10.88:1 and hitting mid 9's on a shift. You are targetting low 12's and hitting high 10's between shifts. We both appear to have the 1pt AFR difference between shifts. Am I looking at this correctly? Thoughts?

t

[crystal_Imprezav]

Not exactly, that is my PUMP tune. I have not yet reinstalled my meth nozzle (long story) an to be honest, I may hold out on reinstalling the the meth until spring rolls around since I am so happy with the FMIC tune right now. Previously I had a say 12.22 afr spec'd in the table to hit a 11.1:1 afr at peak boost (around 2800-3200) so in reality my intake calibration has never been 100% correct nor will it ever. I have done a million intake calibrations and can never seem to get anything that will mimic the target afr's at peak VE while I can get it pretty close when the rpm's get towards redline. So if I really wanted to get them close I would be messing around with tip-in values which I choose to avoid being on stock injectors. Keep in mind that I have not played around with a non-meth tune since june~july when I got my kit so that was before I got into enginuity and other openecu tools to change things like FIBTE and etc. What I get now is a 10.9:1 afr from a hard load and just this morning I tested out a WOT pull in 4th from 4000rpms and hit a very happy 11.1:1 afr so it is better there definitely. The funny thing is now that when I shift between gears I get a good lean shift like before at around a 12:1 then when the peddle goes to the floor again, right back to the 11:1 I want, perfecto. The reason I have the loads rescaled now is because of the whole avcs fiasco when tested earlier and something def. worked by doing the recalibrations I did. Can you really hit full boost STILL by 2800 rpm's with the FM? I am at around 3200 rpm's in higher gears which is ideal for me b/c it eliminates the surging I was experiencing in 5th-6th gears like before. This is with the WG locked up until 2600rpms and at 70% (low) and 90% (high) at 2800rpms with the EBCS. At 2800rpms I am at around 17~18psi and at ~3200 I am at the 20psi I want. MAYBE you problem is that you are not running enough timing with the afr's you have. With more timing you should be able to lean it out a bit and with that rich of an afr I do not see why your ecu would not take it. With meth I never changed my timing curve from my pump tune but instead just pushed a lot more boost and a little leaner afr. So right now I am running about 18~19* at around 3200rpm's (DA 10), 20* at 4000rpms, 22~23* at 5500, and ~28-30* at redline with a leaner afr than you and essentially the same mods. I see no reason why your car would not take the same timing. Just to show you how much crazier my meth calibration is for fuel to get a ~10.9-11:1 afr check this out. There is a lot of playing around with the fuel and intake calibrations to do so with the stock ecu AND IF/WHEN you do go on meth your will know what you are dealing with ROFL:

J

[WolfPlayer]

Big WOW to your Meth tune - lol. Yea, your results make more sense now that I know the intake calibration isn't on. Hmph.

I doubt it is the timing because I get the rich spike no matter what RPM I am at ... and then it settles down to my normal AFRs (and it's the same timing). I can run 11:1 AFRs at 4000rpms with the timing I have. But, if I spool at 3600 then I will get 9.5:1 AFRs at 4000rpms at the same damn load and timing. Oh wells. I really wish this was a boost leak. Hmph. The only thing that I couldn't check is the rate of filling. I checked to 25psi. But, when the turbo spools it provides a greater rate of filling and a greater surge of air. Maybe this is having an impact. I don't know.

Another difference between our setups is the injectors. Mine are about 40% bigger than yours.

t

[WolfPlayer]

I don't really need to update this because nothing has changed. However, I am doing this for my own record.

This morning I did a higher resolution log pulling from 2000-5000, 3000-5000, 4000-5000, and 2000-7000. I was rewarded with 9.5:1 AFRs no matter where it spools up. The logs showed clearly that the injector pulse width was artificially jacked up by the ECU because it thinks it needs to inject more fuel on spoolup. At 4200rpms the AFRs were 11:1 on the first 2 pulls (2000-5000 and 3000-5000). However, on the 4000-5000 pull the AFRs were 9.5:1 at that exact RPM. Thus, the fuel and MAF curves are correct. It is just that the ECU is jacking up the fuel on spoolup. MAF and Boost were increasing so this jives with me NOT having a boost leak. The MAF V did go down once the rich AFRs hit. However, that is totally expected since the power is definitely lower in this area due to the crazy low AFRs (you can easily feel it via the butt dyno).

t

[Guest_1u53r]

it's because your ECU senses the big FMIC and says "okay here we go, a big ass turbo is about to spool" and then it only gets the VF39. You need a SZ49, dawg.

okay sorry, i know that doesn't help.

[WolfPlayer]

Originally Posted by nhluhr

it's because your ECU senses the big FMIC and says "okay here we go, a big ass turbo is about to spool" and then it only gets the VF39. You need a SZ49, dawg.

okay sorry, i know that doesn't help.

It does help It makes me laugh. Laughing is good I welcome everything in this thread at this point .

t