APS DR525 Results, Tuning, etc. - Page 10

04stiguy · 01-05-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

Christian is pretty darn busy right now. I've talked with him quite a few times about this issue and he said on bigger turbo setups he has always been able to get things to work by adjusting the FIBET. Have you adjusted your FIBET yet? If so, what is the current value you are using?

t

I have not adjusted the FIBET because ST does not have that feature as far as I can tell. So it is currently whatever stock is.

Based on your prior post, it looks like changing the FIBET had little or no effect?

WolfPlayer · 01-05-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 04stiguy

I have not adjusted the FIBET because ST does not have that feature as far as I can tell. So it is currently whatever stock is.

Based on your prior post, it looks like changing the FIBET had little or no effect?

Definitely have Christian adjust your FIBET. I bet it would help a bit your your setup. Contact Christian and let him know you are participating in this thread. Send him your base map. Ask him to modify the FIBET to 40 (from 128). Test and see what happens.

t

WolfPlayer · 01-05-2007, 11:29 AM

Ok - I am now going to do what I didn't want to do. I am going to delay spoolup and spoolup more slowly. I think that will help with going so rich so quickly. It seems like the ECU is detecting such a large increase in MAF / Load and responding accordingly. If I can bring this boost online slower than I think it will help (along with leaning out the bottom a bit). I just didn't want to go this route. But, it does make a lot of sense. I can redo spoolup to be more similar to a Cobb setup and things will probably work a lot better. We'll see.

t

crystal_Imprezav · 01-05-2007, 12:04 PM

Didn't we drastically decrease spool with the CL stuff we tried? If they was to help wouldn't the delay we introduced have worked technically? Even if you did delay the spool, that would explain why when you go WOT at higher RPMs it still displays the same symptoms? By delaying spool are you going to be adjusting WGDC or AVCS? I don't know, I can't really think clearly right now, I just got home after being on a plane/airports since 5am. Im going to go test some stuff right now. Hopefully I can grab some traction since its kinda wet out right now. I am testing the following theories: CL delay set to 50 in the last cell (I tried this on someone elses car while I was gone and it seemed to better transition the car smoother/better); Running TPS throttle thresholds to more of a 07 ltd. similar style; Leaning out the fuel targets from 800rpms to 2800~3000rpms and going straight to a target of 11.14 there after all the way to redline with adjustments to the intake calibration to better simulate the targets, a tiny bit more timing in the spool up area, FIBTE to -50%, and very light rescaling/adjustments to the tip-in table; and eliminating the modified loads and TPS for CL 2800rpms and after. Ill post some logs/results tonight hopefully, if the roads will accommodate the 3rd gear pulls. If any of this stuff worked than I should see a consistent 11.1:1 everywhere after boost hits. Ill try it at various rpms to make sure that it was not just my leaning out of the lower rpms that made the difference.

crystal_Imprezav · 01-05-2007, 03:17 PM

Ok just got back from some runs. Mixed results: This good: 1. I only spike at all when doing a hard load from 2000rpms up. When I spool up from anytime after 3000rpms+ I hit my targets perfectly; 1. My ignition timing looks beautiful! No more hidden pulled timing like random ones from a thread a while back ago. Maybe the richened mix is helping do something other than rob torque. 3. The CL delay sucks! Even something as small as 50 you can feel something along the lines of very laggy. Its not doing anything really except delay when the ecu goes to open loop on the MAF (v) table about .5 volts later. 4. Loving the TDC changes I made. Although VERY slight by only smoothing the initial on throttle from 29 to 25 down to where it is 25 stock and eliminating the random increase in TDC at somewhere around 20% throttle and integrated it into a smooth transition to i think 52.5. The car pretty much feels like wolfs old values except it keeps the stock taper. My thoughts are that the initial 29% is too high and why the throttle feels very sensative when getting on it and off the clutch. Gets two thumbs up in my book, feels like how a stock manual car should feel.

What I disliked: 1. Delays suck, that is going immediately; 2. The stock MAF is calibrated way too high. With the MAF recalibrated a good amount lower and putting in the exact targets I wanted to hit, I was able to almost 100% hit them on the spot. 3. FIBTE didn't seem to do too much. I am going to test -60~70% tomorrow. At -50% I am still hitting the 10.9 AFR but now it is slightly higher at about 10.95. I will not be satisfied until it is at least 11.1 and hopefully a little later in the powerband at around 3500 instead of 3000rpms. The FIBTE seems to work more magic at higher RPMS going WOT when tip-in really is needed.

So what can I conclude? Not too much about the FMIC richness but I did discover a whole lot more about other things parameters in my tune. My timing is perfect right now, and the TDC with ever so slight tweaks can feel a ton better. MAF voltage and the referenced airflow does not have a whole lot to do with calculated load IMHO. With my intake calibration decreased to somewhere along the line of -10-20% I was still hitting 3.6 load with ease and only 20psi and no meth. So whats next? Attempt dissecting the crap out of the stock ecu's unknown tables in search of something that will delay the injectors from squirting so early. More results to follow tomorrow when its drier and nicer out. This will be the last weekend I play with this tune since the meth is going back in on monday.

crystal_Imprezav · 01-05-2007, 04:13 PM

Look familiar:

From nabisco an 06 sti sr55 tune. Noticeable but most people just aren't as picky as us

daemon · 01-05-2007, 04:20 PM

Funny thing is I always used to notice those spots in the plots. However I used to think the tuner just did that on purpose because it was their "style" of tuning.

crystal_Imprezav · 01-05-2007, 05:20 PM

Haha yea me too. I think they developed that 'style' of tuning off FMIC tuning

Go rich at peak boost and torque then lean out. Little did we know they couldn't lean out there

04stiguy · 01-06-2007, 12:54 AM

Wolf,

What spark plugs and gap are you running?

WolfPlayer · 01-06-2007, 03:48 AM

I am currently running NGK LFR7AIX (one step colder iridiums) gapped at the stock 0.032". However, if push comes to shove, I have a brand new set of NGK Coppers gapped at 0.028" ready to go.

t

crystal_Imprezav · 01-06-2007, 11:10 AM

Update: I am having good success with FIBTE and the response it is giving my car. Started at -50% and now I am at -65% and almost where I want it. The only problem I am getting now is that it is starting to spike up my afr's after the initial kick in. I am going to vary it to probably -70% in the lower end and -55% on the upper part. We shall see.

04stiguy · 01-06-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

I am currently running NGK LFR7AIX (one step colder iridiums) gapped at the stock 0.032". However, if push comes to shove, I have a brand new set of NGK Coppers gapped at 0.028" ready to go.

t

Thanks.

>>Wolfplayer, do you have the same intake cal. table values as you posted here on 6/15/06?

sti8u · 01-06-2007, 01:14 PM

Interesting reading - my problem is the opposite (too lean on sudden WOT and gear changes), but I have an Autronic ECU which is MAP-based so totally unrelated

crystal_Imprezav · 01-06-2007, 01:33 PM

Ha some meth injected there will fix that problem right up. At this point in the game I am starting to consider switching to something with a little more ecu control. Hopefully Cobb will start releasing all the so-called features that rumors have speculated.

daemon · 01-08-2007, 05:18 PM

I've finally started to get back to a place where I can play with these issues myself. And while looking at turbo dynamics vs. the AFR, I sort of started to wonder if there was any chance that maybe this is being caused by the fuel pressure regulator having some issues tracking the boost given how hard we are pushing things beyond stock. Silly idea?

01-08-2007, 05:18 PM	#150
daemon The Next Petter Solberg Car: 2004 STi Location: Florida Posts: 865 Join Date: Feb 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	I've finally started to get back to a place where I can play with these issues myself. And while looking at turbo dynamics vs. the AFR, I sort of started to wonder if there was any chance that maybe this is being caused by the fuel pressure regulator having some issues tracking the boost given how hard we are pushing things beyond stock. Silly idea? This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

01-05-2007, 11:29 AM	#138
WolfPlayer Moderator & ECU Tech Car: 05 CGM STI Fav Mod: mo boostaz Location: Fredneck, MD Posts: 3,703 Join Date: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	Ok - I am now going to do what I didn't want to do. I am going to delay spoolup and spoolup more slowly. I think that will help with going so rich so quickly. It seems like the ECU is detecting such a large increase in MAF / Load and responding accordingly. If I can bring this boost online slower than I think it will help (along with leaning out the bottom a bit). I just didn't want to go this route. But, it does make a lot of sense. I can redo spoolup to be more similar to a Cobb setup and things will probably work a lot better. We'll see. t

01-05-2007, 12:04 PM	#139
crystal_Imprezav Spec C Club Car: Slow 05 STi Fav Mod: Loping Idle Location: Chewy's Garage Posts: 1,878 Join Date: Mar 2005 Trader Rating: (12)	Didn't we drastically decrease spool with the CL stuff we tried? If they was to help wouldn't the delay we introduced have worked technically? Even if you did delay the spool, that would explain why when you go WOT at higher RPMs it still displays the same symptoms? By delaying spool are you going to be adjusting WGDC or AVCS? I don't know, I can't really think clearly right now, I just got home after being on a plane/airports since 5am. Im going to go test some stuff right now. Hopefully I can grab some traction since its kinda wet out right now. I am testing the following theories: CL delay set to 50 in the last cell (I tried this on someone elses car while I was gone and it seemed to better transition the car smoother/better); Running TPS throttle thresholds to more of a 07 ltd. similar style; Leaning out the fuel targets from 800rpms to 2800~3000rpms and going straight to a target of 11.14 there after all the way to redline with adjustments to the intake calibration to better simulate the targets, a tiny bit more timing in the spool up area, FIBTE to -50%, and very light rescaling/adjustments to the tip-in table; and eliminating the modified loads and TPS for CL 2800rpms and after. Ill post some logs/results tonight hopefully, if the roads will accommodate the 3rd gear pulls. If any of this stuff worked than I should see a consistent 11.1:1 everywhere after boost hits. Ill try it at various rpms to make sure that it was not just my leaning out of the lower rpms that made the difference.

01-05-2007, 03:17 PM	#140
crystal_Imprezav Spec C Club Car: Slow 05 STi Fav Mod: Loping Idle Location: Chewy's Garage Posts: 1,878 Join Date: Mar 2005 Trader Rating: (12)	Ok just got back from some runs. Mixed results: This good: 1. I only spike at all when doing a hard load from 2000rpms up. When I spool up from anytime after 3000rpms+ I hit my targets perfectly; 1. My ignition timing looks beautiful! No more hidden pulled timing like random ones from a thread a while back ago. Maybe the richened mix is helping do something other than rob torque. 3. The CL delay sucks! Even something as small as 50 you can feel something along the lines of very laggy. Its not doing anything really except delay when the ecu goes to open loop on the MAF (v) table about .5 volts later. 4. Loving the TDC changes I made. Although VERY slight by only smoothing the initial on throttle from 29 to 25 down to where it is 25 stock and eliminating the random increase in TDC at somewhere around 20% throttle and integrated it into a smooth transition to i think 52.5. The car pretty much feels like wolfs old values except it keeps the stock taper. My thoughts are that the initial 29% is too high and why the throttle feels very sensative when getting on it and off the clutch. Gets two thumbs up in my book, feels like how a stock manual car should feel. What I disliked: 1. Delays suck, that is going immediately; 2. The stock MAF is calibrated way too high. With the MAF recalibrated a good amount lower and putting in the exact targets I wanted to hit, I was able to almost 100% hit them on the spot. 3. FIBTE didn't seem to do too much. I am going to test -60~70% tomorrow. At -50% I am still hitting the 10.9 AFR but now it is slightly higher at about 10.95. I will not be satisfied until it is at least 11.1 and hopefully a little later in the powerband at around 3500 instead of 3000rpms. The FIBTE seems to work more magic at higher RPMS going WOT when tip-in really is needed. So what can I conclude? Not too much about the FMIC richness but I did discover a whole lot more about other things parameters in my tune. My timing is perfect right now, and the TDC with ever so slight tweaks can feel a ton better. MAF voltage and the referenced airflow does not have a whole lot to do with calculated load IMHO. With my intake calibration decreased to somewhere along the line of -10-20% I was still hitting 3.6 load with ease and only 20psi and no meth. So whats next? Attempt dissecting the crap out of the stock ecu's unknown tables in search of something that will delay the injectors from squirting so early. More results to follow tomorrow when its drier and nicer out. This will be the last weekend I play with this tune since the meth is going back in on monday.

01-05-2007, 04:13 PM	#141
crystal_Imprezav Spec C Club Car: Slow 05 STi Fav Mod: Loping Idle Location: Chewy's Garage Posts: 1,878 Join Date: Mar 2005 Trader Rating: (12)	Look familiar: From nabisco an 06 sti sr55 tune. Noticeable but most people just aren't as picky as us

01-05-2007, 04:20 PM	#142
daemon The Next Petter Solberg Car: 2004 STi Location: Florida Posts: 865 Join Date: Feb 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Funny thing is I always used to notice those spots in the plots. However I used to think the tuner just did that on purpose because it was their "style" of tuning.

01-05-2007, 05:20 PM	#143
crystal_Imprezav Spec C Club Car: Slow 05 STi Fav Mod: Loping Idle Location: Chewy's Garage Posts: 1,878 Join Date: Mar 2005 Trader Rating: (12)	Haha yea me too. I think they developed that 'style' of tuning off FMIC tuning Go rich at peak boost and torque then lean out. Little did we know they couldn't lean out there

01-06-2007, 12:54 AM	#144
04stiguy Senior STI Driver Car: '05 STi Fav Mod: Cusco Zero 2R's Posts: 336 Join Date: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Wolf, What spark plugs and gap are you running?

01-06-2007, 03:48 AM	#145
WolfPlayer Moderator & ECU Tech Car: 05 CGM STI Fav Mod: mo boostaz Location: Fredneck, MD Posts: 3,703 Join Date: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	I am currently running NGK LFR7AIX (one step colder iridiums) gapped at the stock 0.032". However, if push comes to shove, I have a brand new set of NGK Coppers gapped at 0.028" ready to go. t

01-06-2007, 11:10 AM	#146
crystal_Imprezav Spec C Club Car: Slow 05 STi Fav Mod: Loping Idle Location: Chewy's Garage Posts: 1,878 Join Date: Mar 2005 Trader Rating: (12)	Update: I am having good success with FIBTE and the response it is giving my car. Started at -50% and now I am at -65% and almost where I want it. The only problem I am getting now is that it is starting to spike up my afr's after the initial kick in. I am going to vary it to probably -70% in the lower end and -55% on the upper part. We shall see.

01-06-2007, 01:14 PM	#148
sti8u Amateur STI Driver Posts: 40 Join Date: Jan 2006 Trader Rating: (0)	Interesting reading - my problem is the opposite (too lean on sudden WOT and gear changes), but I have an Autronic ECU which is MAP-based so totally unrelated

01-06-2007, 01:33 PM	#149
crystal_Imprezav Spec C Club Car: Slow 05 STi Fav Mod: Loping Idle Location: Chewy's Garage Posts: 1,878 Join Date: Mar 2005 Trader Rating: (12)	Ha some meth injected there will fix that problem right up. At this point in the game I am starting to consider switching to something with a little more ecu control. Hopefully Cobb will start releasing all the so-called features that rumors have speculated.