Lean stumble

R4ND0M_AX3 · 12-12-2006, 01:51 PM

So.... I'm in the process of breaking in a new block. I'm running the same map I've had since June with the exception of boost. All of the positive boost targets and WGDC are now zero'd out. Same Fuel scaler and injector delays (wrong values but they work).

So last night on the way home from work I'm cruising on the freeway in 6th then I feel a stumble. A quick glance at my XD-1 and I see AFRs (I didn't switch to Lambda yet

) in the 17's

. So I immediately note as much data as I can since I didn't have a laptop with me.

6th gear
2900-3000 RPM
almost reading atmosphere on boost gauge (slight vacuum)
very slight uphill section of road
57 DegF Outdoor temp
High humidity (almost raining)

I suspected a bad spot in my fuel map. So when I got in today I opened ST and started looking. Nothing jumped out immediatley. Then I started to suspect an OL/CL type thing. Looking at the 4 Closed loop tables in ST it looks like I was still in closed loop (less than 40% throttle, less than ~84MPH, and definately less than 5.79 load) So if I'm in closed loop and the car ran like that then I must have my injector stuff wacked.

Are you guys leaving the closed loop settings alone?

crystal_Imprezav · 12-12-2006, 02:54 PM

Sounds like maybe a tip-in issue with the change in load going uphill. For closed loop settings I generally lower the modified load when I hit full boost i.e. 2800 rpm. I lower the load settings by a small decrease then interpolate until -4 modified load at 3600rpm. I also set the throttle position to 0 @ 4k rpm to match the modified load table. Lastly closed loop delays to all 0's.

R4ND0M_AX3 · 12-12-2006, 04:16 PM

Here's the Stg 2 setttings I have

Code:

0	400	800	1200	1600	2000	2400	2800	3200	3600	4000	4400	4800	5200	5600	6000
5.79	5.79	5.79	5.79	5.79	5.79	5.79	5.79	5.79	4.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00

So you ramped the values downward starting at 2800 and ended up at the original setting of 4.00 at 3600?

Something like this?

Code:

0	400	800	1200	1600	2000	2400	2800	3200	3600	4000	4400	4800	5200	5600	6000
5.79	5.79	5.79	5.79	5.79	5.79	5.79	5.00	4.50	4.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00

WolfPlayer · 12-12-2006, 04:47 PM

FWIW, I have noticed that the CL/OL tables don't do jack. Crazy. But, I tried changing the TPS table to 80% across the board and raised up the modified load table DRAMATICALLY. Guess what? Nothing. The ECU always switched into open loop at 2.5 maf V. If you were at almost atmospheric pressure then you were probably in open loop (Because you were passed 2.5 maf volts). Give it a try. It's crazy. No matter what I do, it's 2.5 maf volts where the ECU goes into open loop.

t

R4ND0M_AX3 · 12-12-2006, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

FWIW, I have noticed that the CL/OL tables don't do jack. Crazy. But, I tried changing the TPS table to 80% across the board and raised up the modified load table DRAMATICALLY. Guess what? Nothing. The ECU always switched into open loop at 2.5 maf V. If you were at almost atmospheric pressure then you were probably in open loop (Because you were passed 2.5 maf volts). Give it a try. It's crazy. No matter what I do, it's 2.5 maf volts where the ECU goes into open loop.

t

Well that sucks. I was thinking about messing with those to force the ECU into open loop during tuning. Hondata has a setting to keep the ECU in OL.

Is this an ST limitation? Do the open ECU solutions let you successfully modify the transition?

This whole thing is weird because I didn't notice this before and it's definately noticable and repeatable.

Either something changed with my map when I changed the boost, or I previously never spent time in this area of the tune because of it.

crystal_Imprezav · 12-13-2006, 06:58 AM

Yea to be completely honest I never notice changes in the cl/ol transition minus the delays value. I just do it for the 'just in case' it actually ever does anything factor.

R4ND0M_AX3 · 12-14-2006, 07:43 AM

I made some changes last night.

There was a change in the injector scale and latency as a result of me trying to run wastegate pressure as a break in map. I forgot I had been getting ready to through my goofy numbers out of the window and use either Wolf's spreadsheet with my tested injector values or maybe Christian's spreadsheet.

I had Christian email me a modified basemap with different FIBET values. While watching the logs I did note that 6th gear, 2900 RPM and almost atmopheric manifold pressure put me at a calculated load of 1.00. (stock MAF scaling)

R4ND0M_AX3 · 12-14-2006, 12:44 PM

I don't know what's up with my setup. I have never used a scaler or injector latencey that jived with anything.

I currently have a scaler of 3500 and 12V latencey of 1.59 and a 14v latencey of 1.00.

Car seems to be ok. Total trims are +/-5%.

I haven't confirmed with high boost yet.

My previous settings (stock FIBET) had a low scaler (2922) and high latencies (1.70 & 1.55).

Are you guys finding that the calculated settings (wolfplayer's or Christian's spreadsheets) are working for you?

12-12-2006, 01:51 PM	#1
R4ND0M_AX3 Grassroots STI Racer Car: 05 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: Cobb StreetTUNER Location: Elk Grove, CA USA Posts: 592 Join Date: Jul 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Lean stumble So.... I'm in the process of breaking in a new block. I'm running the same map I've had since June with the exception of boost. All of the positive boost targets and WGDC are now zero'd out. Same Fuel scaler and injector delays (wrong values but they work). So last night on the way home from work I'm cruising on the freeway in 6th then I feel a stumble. A quick glance at my XD-1 and I see AFRs (I didn't switch to Lambda yet ) in the 17's . So I immediately note as much data as I can since I didn't have a laptop with me. 6th gear 2900-3000 RPM almost reading atmosphere on boost gauge (slight vacuum) very slight uphill section of road 57 DegF Outdoor temp High humidity (almost raining) I suspected a bad spot in my fuel map. So when I got in today I opened ST and started looking. Nothing jumped out immediatley. Then I started to suspect an OL/CL type thing. Looking at the 4 Closed loop tables in ST it looks like I was still in closed loop (less than 40% throttle, less than ~84MPH, and definately less than 5.79 load) So if I'm in closed loop and the car ran like that then I must have my injector stuff wacked. Are you guys leaving the closed loop settings alone? This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

12-12-2006, 04:16 PM	#3
R4ND0M_AX3 Grassroots STI Racer Car: 05 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: Cobb StreetTUNER Location: Elk Grove, CA USA Posts: 592 Join Date: Jul 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Here's the Stg 2 setttings I have Code: 0 400 800 1200 1600 2000 2400 2800 3200 3600 4000 4400 4800 5200 5600 6000 5.79 5.79 5.79 5.79 5.79 5.79 5.79 5.79 5.79 4.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 So you ramped the values downward starting at 2800 and ended up at the original setting of 4.00 at 3600? Something like this? Code: 0 400 800 1200 1600 2000 2400 2800 3200 3600 4000 4400 4800 5200 5600 6000 5.79 5.79 5.79 5.79 5.79 5.79 5.79 5.00 4.50 4.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

12-14-2006, 12:44 PM	#8
R4ND0M_AX3 Grassroots STI Racer Car: 05 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: Cobb StreetTUNER Location: Elk Grove, CA USA Posts: 592 Join Date: Jul 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	I don't know what's up with my setup. I have never used a scaler or injector latencey that jived with anything. I currently have a scaler of 3500 and 12V latencey of 1.59 and a 14v latencey of 1.00. Car seems to be ok. Total trims are +/-5%. I haven't confirmed with high boost yet. My previous settings (stock FIBET) had a low scaler (2922) and high latencies (1.70 & 1.55). Are you guys finding that the calculated settings (wolfplayer's or Christian's spreadsheets) are working for you? This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

12-12-2006, 02:54 PM	#2
crystal_Imprezav Spec C Club Car: Slow 05 STi Fav Mod: Loping Idle Location: Chewy's Garage Posts: 1,873 Join Date: Mar 2005 Trader Rating: (11)	Sounds like maybe a tip-in issue with the change in load going uphill. For closed loop settings I generally lower the modified load when I hit full boost i.e. 2800 rpm. I lower the load settings by a small decrease then interpolate until -4 modified load at 3600rpm. I also set the throttle position to 0 @ 4k rpm to match the modified load table. Lastly closed loop delays to all 0's.

12-12-2006, 04:47 PM	#4
WolfPlayer Moderator & ECU Tech Car: 05 CGM STI Fav Mod: mo boostaz Location: Fredneck, MD Posts: 3,695 Join Date: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	FWIW, I have noticed that the CL/OL tables don't do jack. Crazy. But, I tried changing the TPS table to 80% across the board and raised up the modified load table DRAMATICALLY. Guess what? Nothing. The ECU always switched into open loop at 2.5 maf V. If you were at almost atmospheric pressure then you were probably in open loop (Because you were passed 2.5 maf volts). Give it a try. It's crazy. No matter what I do, it's 2.5 maf volts where the ECU goes into open loop. t

12-13-2006, 06:58 AM	#6
crystal_Imprezav Spec C Club Car: Slow 05 STi Fav Mod: Loping Idle Location: Chewy's Garage Posts: 1,873 Join Date: Mar 2005 Trader Rating: (11)	Yea to be completely honest I never notice changes in the cl/ol transition minus the delays value. I just do it for the 'just in case' it actually ever does anything factor.

12-14-2006, 07:43 AM	#7
R4ND0M_AX3 Grassroots STI Racer Car: 05 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: Cobb StreetTUNER Location: Elk Grove, CA USA Posts: 592 Join Date: Jul 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	I made some changes last night. There was a change in the injector scale and latency as a result of me trying to run wastegate pressure as a break in map. I forgot I had been getting ready to through my goofy numbers out of the window and use either Wolf's spreadsheet with my tested injector values or maybe Christian's spreadsheet. I had Christian email me a modified basemap with different FIBET values. While watching the logs I did note that 6th gear, 2900 RPM and almost atmopheric manifold pressure put me at a calculated load of 1.00. (stock MAF scaling)