TXS Knocklite Sensitivity and ECU Knock

**WolfPlayer** · 09-25-2006, 05:39 AM

First - What sensitivity are you guys with TXS knocklites using?

As some of you know, I have been trying to track down the reason why my real Ignition advance doesn't actually equal my primary + DA (with all DA maps the same, DAM at 1.0, DA showing full DA, IAT < 122, CT < 194). I installed a knocklite to try to help track things down. The knocklite is tapped into the stock knock sensor (because I want to see what the ECU sees).

With the knocklite on a sensitivity of 3, the ECU pulled 1.5 degrees of dynamic advance at 5800. The knocklite showed NOTHING. Obviously, that wasn't sensitive enough because I should have seen something if a signal was coming across that knock wire to the ECU.

After examining the log on the side of the road, I set the knocklite to a sensitivity of 2. I gave the car a quick drive to cool off the intercooler (+ spray down) and then did another run. The ECU pulled nothing (same exact timing as the previous log). BUT, the knocklite showed AMBER at ~5500.

Couple points ...
1) My ECU actually pulled Dynamic Advance today. I haven't seen that before with regard to my ignition timing complaints. Nothing like running 14d of timing at 5800rpms

. Car is still running strong and pulling 4.42 MAF volts on a 70mm intake.
2) I don't know how useful this knocklite will be - lol.

I'm going to start with a fresh base map reflash and see what happens.

t

TheMadScientist · 09-25-2006, 05:44 AM

That is why I still have my Utec installed among other things. It has 2X the sensitivity ranges than the knock light.

TMS

ZuMBLe · 09-25-2006, 07:02 AM

Does pulling dynamic advance actually mean knock or did the ecu prevent knock?

My Knocklite is set to 3.

**WolfPlayer** · 09-25-2006, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadScientist

That is why I still have my Utec installed among other things. It has 2X the sensitivity ranges than the knock light.

TMS

Wow. I learn something new every day. I did not know that. In fact, I ASSumed it was the same

... mostly because of TXS' marketing around the knocklite indicating that the UTEC knock detection system and 'Check Engine' light flash is in such a demand that they wanted to make a stand alone version of it.

Oh wells.

t

R4ND0M_AX3 · 09-25-2006, 10:10 AM

I ended up near 6 on mine. Did you tap into the stock sensor at the ECU or somewhere else?

TheMadScientist · 09-25-2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

Wow. I learn something new every day. I did not know that. In fact, I ASSumed it was the same

... mostly because of TXS' marketing around the knocklite indicating that the UTEC knock detection system and 'Check Engine' light flash is in such a demand that they wanted to make a stand alone version of it.

Oh wells.

t

From reading about the knock light, it is a VERY dumbded down version of the Utec knock detection.
Sorry I can't help you with it I have never used one.

TMS

<---UTEC FOR LIFE, YO!!!!

lokutus1 · 09-25-2006, 11:59 AM

hmm...i have a knock lite too, but i have yet to install it. i'll be interested in what people say. hopefully, it wasn't a complete waste of money

TheMadScientist · 09-25-2006, 12:26 PM

IMO the only real way to set them is with a set of det cans. That is how I set the sensitivty with the utec. I start ~15 points higher sensitivty across all sites and then confirm false knock with the det cans.

TMS

kts262 · 09-25-2006, 12:30 PM

Sorry to hear the Knocklite isn't working out as well as you'd like T.

Hmm I always thought the Knocklite was more sensitive then the UTEC's knock detection. I guess it's a good thing I sold this since I'm keeping the UTEC.

TheMadScientist · 09-25-2006, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kts262

Sorry to hear the Knocklite isn't working out as well as you'd like T.

Hmm I always thought the Knocklite was more sensitive then the UTEC's knock detection. I guess it's a good thing I sold this since I'm keeping the UTEC.

Did you ever tune the sensitivity?
Most of the tunes from professional shops that I have seen don't have any changes to the sensitivty. The changes I have seen have all been turned down.

TMS

**WolfPlayer** · 09-25-2006, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kts262

Sorry to hear the Knocklite isn't working out as well as you'd like T.

Hmm I always thought the Knocklite was more sensitive then the UTEC's knock detection. I guess it's a good thing I sold this since I'm keeping the UTEC.

It's totally cool man. I'm good to go. It may still end up being useful when all is said and done. As of right now, I have NOT labelled it a waste

t

RainMaker · 09-25-2006, 04:10 PM

Mine seems to be working at a sensitivity of 6 or 7.

Right now, Im trying to work out why its going off at 6000+ rpm. I have so little room to play around here that when the knock light goes off at 6000 rpm in 2nd, I rarely can figure out whether its fuel, boost, or ignition. Kinda annoying too, since I will either have to take the laptop out there or get lazy and stick half a can or Torco in there to see if it goes away.

daemon · 09-25-2006, 04:32 PM

I have mine on a separate sensor as I didn't want to risk adding noise to the stock wire. I don't know if that is a valid concern or not, but that's why I went the way I did.

I have mine set to 2. I will get flickers before the ECU pulls dynamic advance. A few minor flickers and the ECU doesn't seem to care. Sustained flickers or immediate red pulses and the ECU cares. So I generally just use it as forewarning, but don't worry about a couple of little blips. After watching it for a while and looking at logs, I have grown to learn what behaviour of the knocklite I need to be on the look out for.

I guess the question really is... should I be paying more attention to what the ECU thinks or what the knocklite thinks. At this point I've given precedence to the ECU.

The other day though I was running four degrees less timing than usual (not due to knock) and my knocklite was absolutely quite. I could not get even the slightest flicker. Which, of course, one would expect with four less degrees across the board. However, that did at least point out that the knocklite is progressively detecting something (on occassion with my standard timing) even though the ECU doesn't seem to care.

daemon · 09-25-2006, 04:34 PM

Oh, hey, btw... does anyone know if the knocklite needs to be recalibrated if it loses power? I can't imagine it does as I assume it stores settings in flash memory, but wanted to confirm it if anyone knows for sure.

kts262 · 09-25-2006, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadScientist

Did you ever tune the sensitivity?
Most of the tunes from professional shops that I have seen don't have any changes to the sensitivty. The changes I have seen have all been turned down.

TMS

I'll have to check my settings in the UTEC. I had the car tuned @ TurboXS a year ago and I saved all of the maps and parameters before I flashed to 2.3. If I remember correctly I compared the parameters as they were to the new ones that same w/ 2.3 and they were the same, so it looks like TurboXS doesn't change them either.

09-25-2006, 05:39 AM	#1
WolfPlayer Moderator & ECU Tech Car: 05 CGM STI Fav Mod: mo boostaz Location: Fredneck, MD Posts: 3,759 IWSTI Addict since: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	TXS Knocklite Sensitivity and ECU Knock First - What sensitivity are you guys with TXS knocklites using? As some of you know, I have been trying to track down the reason why my real Ignition advance doesn't actually equal my primary + DA (with all DA maps the same, DAM at 1.0, DA showing full DA, IAT < 122, CT < 194). I installed a knocklite to try to help track things down. The knocklite is tapped into the stock knock sensor (because I want to see what the ECU sees). With the knocklite on a sensitivity of 3, the ECU pulled 1.5 degrees of dynamic advance at 5800. The knocklite showed NOTHING. Obviously, that wasn't sensitive enough because I should have seen something if a signal was coming across that knock wire to the ECU. After examining the log on the side of the road, I set the knocklite to a sensitivity of 2. I gave the car a quick drive to cool off the intercooler (+ spray down) and then did another run. The ECU pulled nothing (same exact timing as the previous log). BUT, the knocklite showed AMBER at ~5500. Couple points ... 1) My ECU actually pulled Dynamic Advance today. I haven't seen that before with regard to my ignition timing complaints. Nothing like running 14d of timing at 5800rpms . Car is still running strong and pulling 4.42 MAF volts on a 70mm intake. 2) I don't know how useful this knocklite will be - lol. I'm going to start with a fresh base map reflash and see what happens. t This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

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09-25-2006, 05:44 AM	#2
TheMadScientist Professional STI Racer Posts: 599 IWSTI Addict since: Apr 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	That is why I still have my Utec installed among other things. It has 2X the sensitivity ranges than the knock light. TMS

09-25-2006, 07:02 AM	#3
ZuMBLe Senior STI Driver Car: 05 CGM FXT Location: NY Posts: 335 IWSTI Addict since: Feb 2006 Trader Rating: (2)	Does pulling dynamic advance actually mean knock or did the ecu prevent knock? My Knocklite is set to 3.

09-25-2006, 10:10 AM	#5
R4ND0M_AX3 Grassroots STI Racer Car: 05 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: Cobb StreetTUNER Location: Elk Grove, CA USA Posts: 590 IWSTI Addict since: Jul 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	I ended up near 6 on mine. Did you tap into the stock sensor at the ECU or somewhere else?

09-25-2006, 11:59 AM	#7
lokutus1 Spec C Club Car: 05 WRB WRX STi Fav Mod: FYI, I'm a dude Location: Burlington, MA Posts: 2,369 IWSTI Addict since: Mar 2005 Trader Rating: (10)	hmm...i have a knock lite too, but i have yet to install it. i'll be interested in what people say. hopefully, it wasn't a complete waste of money

09-25-2006, 12:26 PM	#8
TheMadScientist Professional STI Racer Posts: 599 IWSTI Addict since: Apr 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	IMO the only real way to set them is with a set of det cans. That is how I set the sensitivty with the utec. I start ~15 points higher sensitivty across all sites and then confirm false knock with the det cans. TMS

09-25-2006, 12:30 PM	#9
kts262 HowTo Contributor Car: 2008 DGM (BBS+Navi) Fav Mod: stock FTL? Location: College Park, MD Posts: 2,197 IWSTI Addict since: Jan 2005 Trader Rating: (9)	Sorry to hear the Knocklite isn't working out as well as you'd like T. Hmm I always thought the Knocklite was more sensitive then the UTEC's knock detection. I guess it's a good thing I sold this since I'm keeping the UTEC.

09-25-2006, 04:10 PM	#12
RainMaker The Next Petter Solberg Car: 08 Z06 Corvette Fav Mod: Jack Jack Location: Portland, OR Posts: 882 IWSTI Addict since: Oct 2005 Trader Rating: (3)	Mine seems to be working at a sensitivity of 6 or 7. Right now, Im trying to work out why its going off at 6000+ rpm. I have so little room to play around here that when the knock light goes off at 6000 rpm in 2nd, I rarely can figure out whether its fuel, boost, or ignition. Kinda annoying too, since I will either have to take the laptop out there or get lazy and stick half a can or Torco in there to see if it goes away.

09-25-2006, 04:32 PM	#13
daemon The Next Petter Solberg Car: 2004 STi Location: Florida Posts: 894 IWSTI Addict since: Feb 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	I have mine on a separate sensor as I didn't want to risk adding noise to the stock wire. I don't know if that is a valid concern or not, but that's why I went the way I did. I have mine set to 2. I will get flickers before the ECU pulls dynamic advance. A few minor flickers and the ECU doesn't seem to care. Sustained flickers or immediate red pulses and the ECU cares. So I generally just use it as forewarning, but don't worry about a couple of little blips. After watching it for a while and looking at logs, I have grown to learn what behaviour of the knocklite I need to be on the look out for. I guess the question really is... should I be paying more attention to what the ECU thinks or what the knocklite thinks. At this point I've given precedence to the ECU. The other day though I was running four degrees less timing than usual (not due to knock) and my knocklite was absolutely quite. I could not get even the slightest flicker. Which, of course, one would expect with four less degrees across the board. However, that did at least point out that the knocklite is progressively detecting something (on occassion with my standard timing) even though the ECU doesn't seem to care.

09-25-2006, 04:34 PM	#14
daemon The Next Petter Solberg Car: 2004 STi Location: Florida Posts: 894 IWSTI Addict since: Feb 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Oh, hey, btw... does anyone know if the knocklite needs to be recalibrated if it loses power? I can't imagine it does as I assume it stores settings in flash memory, but wanted to confirm it if anyone knows for sure.