[RiftsWRX]

Originally Posted by ZuMBLe

Negative value meaning if the DA goes to a value < 0 or in my case where the DA called for a max of 9 degrees and it usually takes 9 but only wants to take 7 now. I never saw a value < 0 during my testing. I've run your map through summer and winter and never had a issue with the car not taking full DA. Even after I played with the ignition map it never had a probablem taking full DA until now.

Well, that should tell you something....

[ZuMBLe]

I know the car isn't happy. Just wondering how unhappy it is. I want to know how hard I should try to make it happy again. Right now I'm running 2 degrees less timing in the primary table and I've limited my DA to 7 degrees.

Originally Posted by RiftsWRX

Well, that should tell you something....

[ZuMBLe]

So I leaned out my AFRs and the car feels much better than yesterday.. I was running 11s tapering down to 10.9 by redline.. I'm now running.. 12.7 right before full boost tapering to 11.3 by redline. I'm running much leaner in the mid range than ebfore. Currently running 11.7 @ 4400rpm where as before I was running 11.0. You feel the difference. My car didn't blow up and still taking full DA.

[WolfPlayer]

I wanted to add an update to this post ... getting back to the original reason I made the post.

Simply put, I cannot determine why the ECU doesn't want to run primary + DA. DA is maxed. DAM is at 1.0. The car is not running with environmental parameters that would cause the ignition to lower (i.e. the IAT < 122 and the coolant < 194). I was lucky enough to talk to 3 top tuners who I trust about ECU stuff: Christian from Cobb, Jorge, and Ed from EQTuning. Although nobody could pinpoint the issue, the end result is that my car would easily accept more timing. I am now running 20d total timing at 5800 with full DA (10d). I just think that there is another table that affects this (Ed agrees) and we currently don't have access to it.

Big thanks to everyone for the help. I really appreciate the sharing of ideas.

t

[crystal_Imprezav]

Add me to the list. My car is pulling timing by 1.5~2* around 4500-5200 rpm's with the IAM maxed out to 1, no knock learning, and DA maxed out at 8. What I find interesting is that it only does it right around this range. Before that I am hitting target timing and after 5800 I am hitting target timing. I tried richening it up and leaning it out but the ecu is still pulling timing. This just started happening recently.

[WolfPlayer]

Originally Posted by crystal_Imprezav

Add me to the list. ... This just started happening recently.

It's a built-in software bomb by SOA that detects IWSTI message board ramblings and duplicates itself like a virus!!! rofl.

t

[daemon]

One strange thing I've had is that I'll have half a degree pulled in the 5200 area for absolutely no reason (that I could find). Not from DA, just pulled. And it was perfectly consistent. If I added up the DA and the primary ignition (knock map was empty), etc. the value used was always half a degree less than anything that made sense. And it wasn't rounding because the cells above and below that rev range all added up, same DA, etc.

So the timing in the logs would be like 15, 15, 15, 14.5, 15, 15, 15. I never did find a reason for it. And if I dropped the primary ignition timing a little, it would drop perfectly in step, and maintain that half degree lower than expected value when logged. Eventually I just ignored it because I couldn't make it stop.

I say we hack into Subaru and download the ECU program manual.

[RiftsWRX]

One thing it could be, is a boost delta compensation table. I know they exist in a myriad of other ECU's. There's no reason it wouldn't on this one.

Basically based on a delta of manifold input, you get a 2d table that can affect timing in realtime. It's not unlike the TPS delta table for fuel enrichment. I'm sure there's a boost delta for fuel as well.

[blindfold]

a little off topic, but if the ECU is pulling timing, let's say around 6000rpm, does that mean it's running to much timing under the condition of good fuel delivery, no knock. Timing was around 33 degrees with methanol on a SZ49, but the ECU pulled timing progressivley to 30degrees, is this normal or was the tune not perfected?

[crystal_Imprezav]

Im going to say its not perfectly tuned on that one. 33* is pretty aggressive for an sz49 setup even with meth, and if it is progressively pulling 3* then it is detecting something wrong.

Daemon, I am getting the exact same thing, just that one little dip in that range and sometimes its 1/2 a degree, and sometimes it a full degree.

[daemon]

Originally Posted by crystal_Imprezav

Daemon, I am getting the exact same thing, just that one little dip in that range and sometimes its 1/2 a degree, and sometimes it a full degree.

It pretty much has to be what Jorge and WolfPlayer suggest. Another table we don't see is affecting the timing. However, I sort of would have thought the value from that "hidden" table would have been factored into the DA value. Then again, maybe not.

[RiftsWRX]

Originally Posted by blindfold

a little off topic, but if the ECU is pulling timing, let's say around 6000rpm, does that mean it's running to much timing under the condition of good fuel delivery, no knock. Timing was around 33 degrees with methanol on a SZ49, but the ECU pulled timing progressivley to 30degrees, is this normal or was the tune not perfected?

Jesus... on C-16 I wouldn't even run 33 degrees of timing on setups like that. heh. I'm lucky if I run 24-26 degrees at a 7k RPM redline.

[WolfPlayer]

Originally Posted by RiftsWRX

Jesus... on C-16 I wouldn't even run 33 degrees of timing on setups like that. heh. I'm lucky if I run 24-26 degrees at a 7k RPM redline.

Yea, I saw that in your StreetTUNER stage 2 map. I was like ... wow, there is less timing at redline than stock. Then I saw your target boost numbers and it started to make sense. You have less boost dialed in than a standard Cobb Stage 2 map. I'll probably put together some notes and post to that post of yours in the next week or so (whenever I get some time).

In contrast, I'm running 28d @ 6800 and 30d @ 7000. However, I also have everything rescaled and configured appropriately such that if I enter a part of the load map (or RPM) that I shouldn't be in then timing will drop, etc. I know that at 7K I should be at 2.5 load. If I go over 2.5 load because of whatever reason, then the timing drops accordingly. Furthermore, if I go over 7000rpms, then the timing drops accordingly. Captain Conservative at work here Maybe I'll post my timing maps? They might be of interest ... might be.

t

[crazymikie]

Originally Posted by TheMadScientist

http://www.enginuity.org/viewtopic.php?t=686

Mikie liks the less fuel les timing it looks like too.

TMS

LOL

You rang?

Now, I'm not running any richer than 12.5:1. Seemed like a good number. I've found that after adding a header, I can add a few degrees of timing and not make any noticeable power gains. I guess it's time to start pulling out some more fuel.....


Oh yah- there's a big tank of water/meth mix squirting into my motor now, too


Mike

[daemon]

I've been tinkering with leaner tunes, but my car really doesn't seem happy with them. I like the theory. I just haven't been able to work up a set of sweet and lean maps that seems to make the power my current "normal" tune makes.

I don't suppose any leaners have some good log files to share?