[RainMaker]

So heres some interesting issues Im having tuning WOT fueling.

Press	A/F	A/FImm	A/FLrn	MAF	MAFV	TPSDelt	TPos	CLoad	IDC	RPM	DAM	DA	Timing	LM1
17.4	14.13	9.02	0.39	60.42	2.68	0	100	1.5	13.38	2412	1	3.5	18.5	14.85
17.4	14.13	9.02	0.39	60.42	2.68	0	100	1.5	13.38	2412	1	3.5	18.5	14.32
17.84	12.4	4.31	0.39	61.19	2.84	0	100	1.54	13.89	2504	1	1	18.5	13.98
17.84	12.4	4.31	0.39	61.19	2.84	0	100	1.54	13.89	2504	1	1	18.5	13.64
17.84	12.4	4.31	0.39	61.19	2.84	0	100	1.54	13.89	2504	1	1	18.5	13.54
18.27	12.98	1.96	0.39	73.34	2.74	0	100	1.58	14.33	2583	1	1	18	13.64
18.27	12.98	1.96	0.39	73.34	2.74	0	100	1.58	14.33	2583	1	1	18	13.79
18.85	14.01	3.53	0.39	74.96	2.94	-0.12	100	1.67	15.82	2649	1	1	16.5	14.19
18.85	14.01	3.53	0.39	74.96	2.94	-0.12	100	1.67	15.82	2649	1	1	16.5	14.32
18.85	14.01	3.53	0.39	74.96	2.94	-0.12	100	1.67	15.82	2649	1	1	16.5	14.24
19.58	14.01	3.53	0.39	72.64	2.94	0	100	1.72	16.4	2746	1	1	16	14.08
19.58	14.01	3.53	0.39	72.64	2.94	0	100	1.72	16.4	2746	1	1	16	14.24
20.31	14.36	5.1	0.39	85.01	2.98	-0.12	100	1.75	18.25	2852	1	1.5	16	14.26
20.31	14.36	5.1	0.39	85.01	2.98	-0.12	100	1.75	18.25	2852	1	1.5	16	14.3
20.31	14.36	5.1	0.39	85.01	2.98	-0.12	100	1.75	18.25	2852	1	1.5	16	14.27
21.32	12.86	4.31	0.39	92.24	3.04	0	100	1.86	19.86	2909	1	2	15	14.29
21.32	12.86	4.31	0.39	92.24	3.04	0	100	1.86	19.86	2909	1	2	15	13.88
22.48	11.71	0.39	0.39	98.73	3.14	-0.12	100	1.89	21.37	3035	1	5	17.5	13.45
22.48	11.71	0.39	0.39	98.73	3.14	-0.12	100	1.89	21.37	3035	1	5	17.5	13.16
22.48	11.71	0.39	0.39	98.73	3.14	-0.12	100	1.89	21.37	3035	1	5	17.5	13.39
23.64	11.48	0.39	0.39	101.38	3.28	0	100	1.97	22.72	3133	1	5	18	13.55
23.64	11.48	0.39	0.39	101.38	3.28	0	100	1.97	22.72	3133	1	5	18	13.41
23.64	11.48	0.39	0.39	101.38	3.28	0	100	1.97	22.72	3133	1	5	18	13.05
24.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	113.37	3.42	0	100	2	24.12	3231	1	5	18.5	12.91
24.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	113.37	3.42	0	100	2	24.12	3231	1	5	18.5	12.94
26.54	11.14	0.39	0.39	121.53	3.42	0	100	2.09	25.86	3367	1	6	18.5	12.89
26.54	11.14	0.39	0.39	121.53	3.42	0	100	2.09	25.86	3367	1	6	18.5	12.72
26.54	11.14	0.39	0.39	121.53	3.42	0	100	2.09	25.86	3367	1	6	18.5	12.63
28.43	11.14	0.39	0.39	129.37	3.44	0	100	2.18	29.75	3486	1	6.5	18.5	12.64
28.43	11.14	0.39	0.39	129.37	3.44	0	100	2.18	29.75	3486	1	6.5	18.5	12.49
30.46	11.14	0.39	0.39	149.2	3.66	0	100	2.41	33.96	3618	1	7	16.5	12.48
30.46	11.14	0.39	0.39	149.2	3.66	0	100	2.41	33.96	3618	1	7	16.5	12.13
30.46	11.14	0.39	0.39	149.2	3.66	0	100	2.41	33.96	3618	1	7	16.5	12
32.63	11.14	0.39	0.39	166.09	3.96	0	100	2.61	36.94	3764	1	6	15.5	12.16
32.63	11.14	0.39	0.39	166.09	3.96	0	100	2.61	36.94	3764	1	6	15.5	12.02
34.23	11.14	0.39	0.39	201.98	4.1	0	100	2.9	45.53	3952	1	4	14.5	11.92
34.23	11.14	0.39	0.39	201.98	4.1	0	100	2.9	45.53	3952	1	4	14.5	11.54
34.23	11.14	0.39	0.39	201.98	4.1	0	100	2.9	45.53	3952	1	4	14.5	11.44
34.23	11.14	0.39	0.39	208.7	4.06	-0.12	100	2.93	48.2	4108	1	4.5	15.5	11.38
34.23	11.14	0.39	0.39	208.7	4.06	-0.12	100	2.93	48.2	4108	1	4.5	15.5	11.27
35.39	11.14	0.39	0.39	216.93	4.2	0.12	100	3.08	49.2	4271	1	4	15.5	11.5
35.39	11.14	0.39	0.39	216.93	4.2	0.12	100	3.08	49.2	4271	1	4	15.5	11.42
35.39	11.14	0.39	0.39	216.93	4.2	0.12	100	3.08	49.2	4271	1	4	15.5	11.5
35.97	11.14	0.39	0.39	245.68	4.24	0	100	3.24	57.66	4431	1	2	14	11.44
35.97	11.14	0.39	0.39	245.68	4.24	0	100	3.24	57.66	4431	1	2	14	11.42
35.97	11.14	0.39	0.39	245.68	4.24	0	100	3.24	57.66	4431	1	2	14	11.54
36.11	11.14	0.39	0.39	248.04	4.42	0	100	3.32	56.42	4640	1	1.5	14	11.61
36.11	11.14	0.39	0.39	248.04	4.42	0	100	3.32	56.42	4640	1	1.5	14	11.54
35.97	11.14	0.39	0.39	249.39	4.46	0	100	3.26	61.53	4807	1	2	12.5	11.64
35.97	11.14	0.39	0.39	249.39	4.46	0	100	3.26	61.53	4807	1	2	12.5	11.63
35.97	11.14	0.39	0.39	249.39	4.46	0	100	3.26	61.53	4807	1	2	12.5	11.67
35.97	11.14	0.39	0.39	256.27	4.48	0.12	100	3.32	55.08	4965	1	-0.5	13	11.61
35.97	11.14	0.39	0.39	256.27	4.48	0.12	100	3.32	55.08	4965	1	-0.5	13	11.51
35.68	11.14	0.39	0.39	266.68	4.36	0	100	3.24	63.59	5139	1	0	13	11.5
35.68	11.14	0.39	0.39	266.68	4.36	0	100	3.24	63.59	5139	1	0	13	11.55
35.68	11.14	0.39	0.39	266.68	4.36	0	100	3.24	63.59	5139	1	0	13	11.42
35.68	11.14	0.39	0.39	273.97	4.58	0	100	3.21	64.4	5296	1	0	13	11.57
35.68	11.14	0.39	0.39	273.97	4.58	0	100	3.21	64.4	5296	1	0	13	11.44
35.53	11.14	0.39	0.39	293.62	4.54	0	100	3.24	64.08	5461	1	0	13	11.45
35.53	11.14	0.39	0.39	293.62	4.54	0	100	3.24	64.08	5461	1	0	13	11.33
35.53	11.14	0.39	0.39	293.62	4.54	0	100	3.24	64.08	5461	1	0	13	11.3
35.39	11.14	0.39	0.39	278.59	4.66	0.12	100	3.26	65.31	5566	1	0	13	11.38
35.39	11.14	0.39	0.39	278.59	4.66	0.12	100	3.26	65.31	5566	1	0	13	11.22
35.1	11.14	0.39	0.39	287.89	4.64	0	100	3.12	73.22	5720	1	1	14	11.22
35.1	11.14	0.39	0.39	287.89	4.64	0	100	3.12	73.22	5720	1	1	14	11.19
35.1	11.14	0.39	0.39	287.89	4.64	0	100	3.12	73.22	5720	1	1	14	11.17
35.1	11.14	0.39	0.39	299.54	4.76	0	100	3.15	75.03	5862	1	1	14	11.26
35.1	11.14	0.39	0.39	299.54	4.76	0	100	3.15	75.03	5862	1	1	14	11.19
34.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	295.48	4.52	0	100	3	74.09	5988	1	-1	12	11.07
34.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	295.48	4.52	0	100	3	74.09	5988	1	-1	12	10.91
34.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	295.48	4.52	0	100	3	74.09	5988	1	-1	12	11.23
34.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	314.01	4.68	-0.12	100	3.02	75.9	6134	1	-1	13.5	11.33
34.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	314.01	4.68	-0.12	100	3.02	75.9	6134	1	-1	13.5	11.17
34.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	314.01	4.68	-0.12	100	3.02	75.9	6134	1	-1	13.5	11.14
34.81	11.14	0.39	0.39	298.24	4.72	0.12	100	2.92	73.33	6250	1	-1.5	13.5	11.23
34.81	11.14	0.39	0.39	298.24	4.72	0.12	100	2.92	73.33	6250	1	-1.5	13.5	11.32
34.81	11.14	0.39	0.39	311	4.68	0	100	3.02	78.68	6359	1	-1.5	15	11.3
34.81	11.14	0.39	0.39	311	4.68	0	100	3.02	78.68	6359	1	-1.5	15	11.11
34.81	11.14	0.39	0.39	311	4.68	0	100	3.02	78.68	6359	1	-1.5	15	10.95
34.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	323.49	4.76	0.12	100	2.93	79.83	6565	1	-2	17.5	11.02
34.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	323.49	4.76	0.12	100	2.93	79.83	6565	1	-2	17.5	11.17
34.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	329.22	4.74	0.12	100	2.94	76.63	6652	1	-1.5	18.5	11.08
34.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	329.22	4.74	0.12	100	2.94	76.63	6652	1	-1.5	18.5	11.08
34.95	11.14	0.39	0.39	329.22	4.74	0.12	100	2.94	76.63	6652	1	-1.5	18.5	11

Notice that I'm getting TPS delta around something that would look like turbulence in the MAF (values goeup, down, then up again). Why the TPS delta at WOT? Is my throttle blade moving? That would certainly cause some fluctuations in flow... which would explain why my AFR isnt getting out out hand when it happens.

Why TPSDelta at steady WOT? Anyone?

And yeah... my timing is sorta goofed up. DA table C even keeps sorta currupting and turning into random looking data. Thats my next issue. Theres alot to read about Dynamic Advance, and little or no information outside of Wolfplayer's educated suppostion as to what DA A, DA B, and DA C are used differently for.

At least this is educational. My tuner has been ignoring my phone calls and I have an important AutoX next week.

Thanks,
Chris

[crystal_Imprezav]

You have to tune DA C table in live tuning. You can't just load it from a saved map. Change it when you are in live tuning mode then save it again as a realtime map. Those TPS deltas are normal IMO. I see the same thing but a little less and my MAF is steady and well tuned IMO. Could be the fact that the DBW throttle reacts funny as RPM's rise as nhluhr noted with wolfs old TPD mapping. Its such a small delta that I would not be worried about it as long as your wideband is showing consistent afr's.

[jays05]

Looks like you're running 20psi to redline? Stock VF39? If so, this is why your timing numbers are so off.

Turbulence could be causing the fluctuating MAF voltage, but you have a lot of duplicate log entries, and other things (such as fluctuating boost levels) could be happening but you aren't catching it in the log. I'd try reducing the number of parameters you display/log and focus on rpm/boost/afr/MAF. I also get the mystery TPS delta at WOT, I don't think it's anything to worry about.

[WolfPlayer]

RainMaker is running a Green.

1) DA C won't save to a realtime map. You can tune it in realtime. However, the full table won't save to a realtime map. Part of it will save - but not all of it. You need to flash DA C as a base map and then never worry about it again.

2) Consider tuning your DA A and DA B to be identical. Basically, DA B is a max table. So, set that equal to DA A so that your timing never goes above what you have specified.

3) Consider setting EVERY value in your DA A and DA B above 2.0 load (or maybe slightly higher in your case) to a single value. For example, if you look at my DA tables you will see every value in every cell above 2.0 load to 8.12 degrees. I have completely redone my Primary Ignition to work with this (just some simple excel work). Thus, when I get a log, if my DA value is not 8 degrees, then I know the ECU doesn't want to run full dynamic advance. This makes it very easy to log and review logs.

4) As far as delta TPS, I have no clue. Furthermore, I don't understand the values in delta TPS anyhow. Those values never make sense to me. I can go from 0% throttle to 100% throttle as quick as possible and that data parameter never seems to fully make sense with regard to what I am doing.

t

[RainMaker]

Thanks guys. I'll try your DA A and B idea, Tim. I do know that PDX does it like that. I'll have to calculate my base timing again in Excell to back up a little, like you mentioned.

I'll stop worrying about the TPS Delta, and I'll start logging IAT. Because of the blow-through, my IAT is after the intercooler. Helpful IF I could get at the IAT vs. Ignition retard. As we all know, unless I pick up this Tactrix cable, I cant. I wouldnt be surprised if the temp is getting above 122 after the intercooler at those high RPMs (though it would be nice if it wasnt)... since it was about 90 degree ambient yesterday.

I'll PM you, T, and perhaps you can look over my TIming map and see if Im *roughly* on track.

thanks,
Chris

[WolfPlayer]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Thanks guys. I'll try your DA A and B idea, Tim. I do know that PDX does it like that. I'll have to calculate my base timing again in Excell to back up a little, like you mentioned.

I'll stop worrying about the TPS Delta, and I'll start logging IAT. Because of the blow-through, my IAT is after the intercooler. Helpful IF I could get at the IAT vs. Ignition retard. As we all know, unless I pick up this Tactrix cable, I cant. I wouldnt be surprised if the temp is getting above 122 after the intercooler at those high RPMs (though it would be nice if it wasnt)... since it was about 90 degree ambient yesterday.

I'll PM you, T, and perhaps you can look over my TIming map and see if Im *roughly* on track.

thanks,
Chris

Chris,

Cool. I'm usually on IM all through the work day except from 1:15->3:00. If your MAF is blow through, make sure you buy some CRC electronic cleaner and clean off the IAT and the MAF wires. I'm sure they probably have some oil residue on them. I have some tips for cleaning the MAF with this cleaner too (because the MAF wires are delicate). I can get some screenshots of my timing tables tonight and put them out there so that everybody can see what I am talking about.

OH! Leave DA C completely stock except for that area above 2.0 load where you are going to set everything to a single value. That will keep things safe for part throttle operation. If you want, you can even set that area above 2.0 load to 1 or 2 degrees less than the other 2 tables to keep things on the safe side.

t

[crystal_Imprezav]

Wow, looks like I have been doing things right, since wolf just pretty much described my map exactly. I am only running 20psi @ 3-4k and tapered to 15.5~16 at redline. This is with alky keep in mind, before I started running alky I was only pushing 19 tapered to 15~14.8. BTW my timing has never been off, they go + if anything since I barely raised them up w/ the injection. Try cleaning your MAF, it helps a bunch if your sensor is really dirty, then a reset. I think the TPS delta is refering to the variation in TPD it is using to get the throttle to the correct position, so it kinda shows how the DBW like to use less TPD at higher rpms. Then again I could be completely wrong.

[WolfPlayer]

Oh, and for the record about cleaning your MAF ....

If you get CRC Electronics Cleaner on the MAF O-Ring then it will expand. This will set you up to TEAR the O-Ring when you go to reinstall the MAF. Be careful when reinstalling the MAF to check for an expanded O-Ring. If it is exanded, don't panic. Do this (just did this yesterday): Take the O-Ring off the MAF and coat it LIGHTLY in Engine Oil. Put it in the freezer for ~5-10 minutes. Take it out, put it on the MAF, and reinstall it. Works like a charm.

t

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

Take the O-Ring off the MAF and coat it LIGHTLY in Engine Oil. Put it in the freezer for ~5-10 minutes. Take it out, put it on the MAF, and reinstall it. Works like a charm.

t

Firs, thats some creative sh|t, right there..

Second, I assume your wife hasnt caught you putting an oily O-ring in the freezer

[WolfPlayer]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Firs, thats some creative sh|t, right there..

Second, I assume your wife hasnt caught you putting an oily O-ring in the freezer

Funny that you mention that ... she wasn't in the house at the time - rofl. I'm sure she would be like

... lol

t