[WolfPlayer]

Here is how it works for me ...

DA A all the time under every condition.
Sometimes DA A will reach a point somewhere between A and B depending on knock, etc.

The stock values in DA B are insane. I can't imagine the stock STI map running off of DA B ... the full DA B values. That would be crazy.

t

[BLUE STINGER]

This is good stuff! Kinda nice to labor on other peoples knowledge.

[crystal_Imprezav]

On my map before I started tuning it, I actually saw the B table a lot, especially around VE where I was getting 8-10 degrees advance under ideal weather and conditions. This is why I kepted getting 20 degrees too early in the powerband and explained my odd powerband butt dyno feeling (not to mention the TPS table, closed loop delay, etc.). In my opinion I was seeing the B table more during the mild winter and early spring, seeing more A during the extreme cold and long trips, and C table during this extreme humid summer. It could have also been a interpolated value between A&B which would explain 8-9 degrees interpolated between 6&10 depending on the conditions. I would like to see Cobb's response to this since I think they know the exact function of each table. From what I hear it is way more complicated than what we make it.

[TheMadScientist]

Originally Posted by crystal_Imprezav

I would like to see Cobb's response to this since I think they know the exact function of each table. From what I hear it is way more complicated than what we make it.

Good luck I have asked and asked. I don't think even Cobb knows exactly how the tables work. I have seen Trey post that all the DA tables are used all the time i.e.((A+B-C)*IAM+Ing learning). I just picked that formula out of my head as an example. I have seen Christian say the the DA table run is very dependant on the octane of the fuel. So who really knows? I'll tel you who REALLY knows how they work. DENSO.
I have seen that what the primary DA table that the ECU runs is all so dependant on what is in the DA tables.

TMS

[Nixlimited]

Right when I started to think I understood these tables....

[WolfPlayer]

Originally Posted by crystal_Imprezav

It could have also been a interpolated value between A&B which would explain 8-9 degrees interpolated between 6&10 depending on the conditions.

... and there you have my entire point. DA B has some really high values that are even way too high for 93 octane.

When I do an ECU reset the ECU always uses the DA A right off the bat. If conditions were good then it VERY quickly would reach a value between DA A and DA B (in some cases using A LOT of DA B values).

t

[crystal_Imprezav]

^^ haha, and thats why I have all my values for table A&B set the same (pretty high for optimal timing) and table C lower values incase of bad gas, or knock, etc. It has worked like a charm and I havent had any unpredictable values, so it seems as if the tables are doing there jobs while keeping it safe. OK this is enough about these tables. They're giving me a migraine

[reid-o]

Originally Posted by daemon

I have DAM set to 0.7 in my base map. If you have it set to 1.0 there then you probably never would see less than one (on any decent tune oc).

I too have set A and B the same, and my C map is very conservative.

I have a question about DAM. The value set in the basemap is reverted back to at every ignition startup? I've set mine to 1.0, but I've never seen lower than that--maybe once datalogging on a long cruise. I'm assuming that it resets to 1.0 at every key startup.

There are times when my knocklite will go off, but my DAM will not change. I attribute that to the sensitivity of the knocklite, but I also wonder whether I've hard locked the 1.0 value. I wonder if the knock feedback system is working. Should I set it to something lower, and tune from there? What is the theory surrounding setting it at .7 versus 1.0?

[crystal_Imprezav]

^^ you are fine. The value of 1 is locked into your ECU b/c it is a basemap flash parameter therefore resetting the ECU... will not change this value unless you revert back to stock or flash in a new value via a new basemap. As for the knock correction, under less than ideal conditions, there is a read-only table in ST that show knock learning values (only during live tuning) that the ECU has learned for different loads and rpm's. Ideally that should all be at 0 but if your timing is too aggressive somewhere, after the ECU detects any knock or problems, there will be a negative value to protect the engine. One I typically do is I will check this table after every drive to make sure all the values are 0. If they are not and something is learned I will go into the primary ignition table to that load and rpm and decrease the timing to what the knock learning table has learned, then reset the ECU so that table is clean again. If you get you timing right, this table will ideally stay at 0 all the time, which mine has for awhile now. Its a good way to figure out the ideal timing for those loads as data-logs will not always tell you everything.

[flatthump]

^AAHhhhhhh I see now..

[crystal_Imprezav]

Yea since this long ago post, messing with some 'advance' parameters such as knock thresholds seems to help a good amount as well. However these parameters are not in ST but should be out whenever this so called advance ST comes out or go with the opensource stuff in the mean time.

[flatthump]

Im still quite new at ST so I havent even touched timing..

Honestly I havent quite figured out if my motor will take it. I cant figure out this ABC DA crap. My data logs often show DA values that dont exist in A B or C DA tables...

Im way too scared to touch timing right now on this Cali gas

[crystal_Imprezav]

Just set timing in the A and B table to the same values in higher loads such as 8 or 9 or 10. In the C table set everything to 0 except for some small advance in higher loads low rpm's, I like to use 7 from like 2-4k and 3 from 4-5k and zero out the rest of that table. Then use excel to recalculate the ignition table where you set your A and B table to 8or9or10 to equal what say the Cobb StageX 91 CAL OTS map would have been running in the primary and DA A table. The B is a bit too aggressive IMO so I would start with A. Then see if your WOT pulls show 8or9or10 in the DA log and if it does then start advancing the earlier RPM's higher loads first i.e. 2.5-3.X loads to about 4k and then relog to see if it is holding it and repeat that until the DA drops at all and then back off the timing about 1/2-1* and move on the higher rpm's. Repeat until your car runs a happy ignition curve up there and then do about 5 WOT runs back to back to make sure it is holding the DA all the way through. If so then bam your done and have a good ignition map. Now you can move on to the lower loads and use live tracing to follow the ignition map and car and start the perfection process to see what advance your car will run to maximize efficiency, gas mileage, emissions, power, and etc. Get the drift? That is a very and most effective way that I can think about tuning timing with all the different methods I have played around with. When you get the hang of that then you can start playing around with where you want DA and not. i.e. I use 0 DA in all lower loads up to about 1.25 load so that the car will run the max. timing to achieve the best gas mileage during cruise and eliminate some annoying - knock learning in that table (which will still occur if your car is unhappy but small - KL is ok, until you become anal like me and wolf) and start using say 4* then 6* then your 8or9or10* DA so that you can follow your DA trend in your logs to make sure you are efficiently getting the best (happy should I say) timing during spool up to full boost. Let me know if you have anymore ?'s. I know when I first started tuning little tips like this would have saved me tons of self-learning.

[daemon]

Originally Posted by crystal_Imprezav

In the C table set everything to 0 except for some small advance in higher loads low rpm's, I like to use 7 from like 2-4k and 3 from 4-5k and zero out the rest of that table.

Do you know when/how C is used?

[crystal_Imprezav]

While no one has been able to prove EXACTLY when it is officially used, looking at the values established in the stock table and from tons of datalogs, it is IMO that it is only used when severe detonation is detected. Maybe faults to it when a bad tank of gas is detected but who really knows. I have never seen that specific table actually used. Only specifically A or an interpolation between A and B with more authority towards B when the ECU is happier.