[cleatis]

I currently am running the AP Stage 2. I am looking into the ST, as down the road I plan on upgrading the turbo, but I have a few questions about the limitations of the ST with the stock ecu.

1. Is their a max boost the ecu will allow. IE. can I have a race gas map with ST running..... say 26lbs??? I see a lot of people running separate boots controllers. Perferibly I would like the ecu to control everything

2. Why does the Ap run lower boost in the lower gears? As the higher gears are more pron to detonation due to the car being at a hight load. Would their be anything to gain by using the ST to have boost be equal through all gears and speeds. Possibly a little higher in the lower speeds?

3. With the ST can I eliminate cel's on my own, like for tumbler delets?

I think that is all I have for now. I just want to see the options I have for EM. I really like the AP and the concept of ST. I just need to weight out all my options to enshure that this choice is belt for me.. Thank you


Nick

[MidlifeCrisis]

Originally Posted by cleatis

1. Is their a max boost the ecu will allow. IE. can I have a race gas map with ST running..... say 26lbs??? I see a lot of people running separate boots controllers. Perferibly I would like the ecu to control everything

Yes. Depending on the turbo chosen, it's wastegate actuator dynamics and spring, you may need to switch to a Perrin EBCS or similar, but the ECU can handle that. In fact, many of the tables exist just for the purposes of managing the turbo and are readily adapted to turbos other than stock. I run a TD-06H 50-Trim with no problems. I am currently working up a 23-25 psi 100-octane map.

Originally Posted by cleatis

2. Why does the Ap run lower boost in the lower gears? As the higher gears are more pron to detonation due to the car being at a hight load. Would their be anything to gain by using the ST to have boost be equal through all gears and speeds. Possibly a little higher in the lower speeds?

I don't know the answer to the first question. ST has no maps that are even aware of what gear you are in, so I'm not sure how to produce maps that would vary engine dynamics based on gear selection.

Originally Posted by cleatis

3. With the ST can I eliminate cel's on my own, like for tumbler delets?

You betcha. ST allows you to disable CELs for codes P1086 through P1096, among others - these codes are for tumbler system problems.

-Bruce

[cleatis]

For the 2nd question..... Now If I remember correctly I hit 15psi in 1,2,3. and, 17.5 from 4,5,6. Now if the ecu cam monitor road speed, and compare that to RPM it will know what gear you are in. Mainly I am just currious to as why the car will produce lower boots numbers in the lower gears...


Thank you for the response, the ST is looking like the perfect EM for my needs

Nick

[jays05]

There is a multiplier value that reduces the boost in 1st and also 2nd I believe. But you can get around it (for the most part) with good tuning. With the EBCS and a 9lb helper spring I can see 18psi+ in every gear on a good launch.

[2fas4u]

I think the answer to all of your questions is simple. There are no limitations to any of things you asked. If so it is well above what any of us will run on the street. The AP does nto limit my boost at all, I can run 30 lbs if I'm stupid enough too...That was the right answer, proper tuning is the key....

[WRX_XB9R]

The low boost in the 1,2,3 gears is normal. The turbo does not have enough time/ load to build pressure. Jaygoesfast may have some help on boosting in lower gears. He gets fairly high numbers with his car. I think most of it was tuning with the EBCS.

Man jay does go fast.

[cleatis]

Thank you for the answers, I have the info I needed....



Nick

[jays05]

Originally Posted by WRX_XB9R

The low boost in the 1,2,3 gears is normal. The turbo does not have enough time/ load to build pressure. Jaygoesfast may have some help on boosting in lower gears. He gets fairly high numbers with his car. I think most of it was tuning with the EBCS.

Man jay does go fast.

It's the EBCS or the 9lb helper spring. I did both at the same time. The car has never been dyno tuned, just street tuned at my private track Here is my last datalog from my high boost/octane map. I tried running this map on 93 and it was NOT happy (I had to pull 1.5psi across the board and start tapering earlier). With 95-96 everything is happy with this map. Yeah, my shifts on this run were slow, I just wanted to get some datalogs.

Time	MAP PSI	Dyn.Adv	Load	RPM	Timing	IDC	IAT	Knock	MAF	Boost	ThrottleMPH	WGDC	AFR
51:28.5	4.35	0	0.25	4650	42.5	2.98	75		1.38	-10.88	5	0	2.35	16.13
51:28.8	4.79	0	0.32	4661	17	2.99	75		1.78	-10.44	6	0	0	13.99
51:29.2	13.05	0.5	0.92	4726	41.5	27.21	75		3.18	-2.61	29	0	23.14	15.13
51:29.3	8.99	0	0.61	4843	46	23.77	75		3.14	-4.64	31	0	16.47	13.64
51:29.5	9.86	0	0.63	4655	43.5	22.85	75		3.22	-1.6	55	0	21.96	13.66
51:29.8	3.77	0	0.18	4766	40	6.12	75		1.32	-11.17	6	0	2.75	16.13
51:30.2	3.77	0	0.18	4766	40	6.12	75		1.32	-11.17	6	0	2.75	14.89
51:30.3	5.22	0	0.3	4171	40	10.67	77		2.48	-5.95	35	0	14.9	13.05
51:30.5	14.5	0	1.26	4921	36.5	37.81	77		3.36	-1.16	33	0	23.92	15.43
51:30.8	3.05	0	0.08	4909	17	3.15	77		1.14	-11.75	4	0	0	13.8
51:31.2	2.32	0	0.07	4188	40	4.47	77		1.28	-12.33	6	0	6.67	11.54
51:31.3	14.94	2	1.2	4391	37	31.83	77		3.3	0.58	100	0	36.08	14.88
51:31.5	27.41	2.5	2.67	3878	12.5	66.18	77		4	13.78	100	1	54.9	13.07
51:31.8	32.63	2	2.9	3752	11.5	63.22	77		3.96	18.13	100	1	49.41	11.19
51:32.2	33.5	3	2.84	4180	14.5	67.79	77		4.08	18.42	100	6	47.45	11.32
51:32.3	30.75	5.5	2.73	5227	19	83.63	79		4.32	16.24	100	6	54.9	11.57
51:32.5	31.18	5.5	2.74	5431	19	86.90	79		4.38	16.68	100	14	54.51	11.52
51:32.8	31.18	9.5	2.66	5687	22	87.34	79		4.4	16.53	100	14	54.12	11.48
51:33.2	24.08	3	1.72	7165	27	4.60	81		3.98	4.93	25	23	15.69	11.73
51:33.3	3.92	0	0.12	7085	24	4.55	81		1.66	-10.73	9	23	0	15.99
51:33.5	15.66	0	1.02	6679	42	44.19	81		3.62	1.89	95	30	28.24	16.21
51:33.8	32.78	9.5	2.85	5290	22.5	91.43	81		4.38	18.13	100	30	58.82	12.2
51:34.2	32.49	10	2.8	5481	23	91.21	81		4.4	17.84	100	34	60.39	11.23
51:34.3	31.47	10	2.67	5838	23.5	92.14	81		4.44	16.97	100	34	61.18	11.32
51:34.5	30.46	7.5	2.47	6406	24.5	92.94	81		4.46	15.95	100	39	65.1	11.45
51:34.8	23.06	1	1.4	7214	27	4.63	81		3.6	5.66	20	39	0	11.64
51:35.2	10.73	0	0.55	6825	41	29.12	81		3.2	0.29	52	44	13.33	37.56
51:35.3	10.73	0	0.55	6825	41	29.12	81		3.2	0.29	52	44	13.33	11.89
51:35.5	32.92	9.5	2.87	5405	23	94.54	81		4.42	18.42	100	49	58.82	10.92
51:35.8	32.05	10	2.73	5726	23	91.62	81		4.42	17.55	100	53	61.18	11.14
51:36.3	31.91	10	2.68	5913	23.5	93.33	79		4.48	17.26	100	53	61.96	11.23
51:36.3	31.33	9.5	2.6	6042	24	92.80	79		4.46	16.68	100	53	63.14	11.26
51:36.5	31.18	7.5	2.48	6409	24.5	92.98	79		4.46	16.39	100	58	64.71	11.33
51:36.8	9.14	0	0.51	7310	24	4.69	79		2.32	-6.67	11	63	0	13.86
51:37.3	21.9	5.5	1.93	4847	28.5	58.93	77		3.88	7.69	100	63	54.9	16.92
51:37.3	29.88	9	2.69	5129	23.5	86.42	77		4.32	15.66	100	66	58.82	12.22
51:37.5	33.79	9.5	2.95	5158	22.5	93.53	77		4.42	18.42	100	66	58.04	11.14
51:37.8	33.21	9.5	2.84	5368	23	89.33	77		4.4	18.42	100	69	58.43	11.19
51:38.3	32.78	10	2.82	5500	23	91.53	77		4.44	18.27	100	69	59.22	11.33
51:38.3	32.63	10	2.77	5586	23	89.38	77		4.42	18.13	100	71	59.61	11.32
51:38.5	32.2	10	2.7	5779	23	92.46	75		4.44	17.55	100	76	60.39	11.33
51:38.8	32.05	10	2.66	5887	23.5	91.69	75		4.46	17.4	100	76	61.18	11.27
51:39.3	31.76	10	2.61	5973	24	91.74	75		4.44	17.26	100	76	61.18	11.33
51:39.3	31.62	9	2.55	6185	24.5	92.36	75		4.46	17.11	100	79	61.96	11.25
51:39.5	31.33	8.5	2.51	6284	24.5	92.48	75		4.44	16.68	100	79	62.75	11.29

[Siegel Racing]

The ECU can't "see" anything over 37 psi absolute, so roughly 22 psi of boost. That just means it can't do closed loop feedback control, but it'll still run the wastegate duty as well as it can. Not the that ECU has any issue with higher boost for timing and fueling, but it can't do real boost control over that. If you are using a seperate boost controler than there are no problems, and it still does a decent job just running on the wastegate table.

The ecu doesn't purposely run lower boost in the lower gears... An AVC-R can run much higher wastegate duties in the lower gears to help get more boost in the lower gears, and a few JDM ECU's have that capacity, but it appears the USDM does not...

I believe the AP can turn off almost any CEL's.

SS

[cleatis]

I was wondering about the boost settings for the following reasons.

When i upgrade the turbo, I will be using water/ alch injection, And I just wanted to be sure that the stock ecu via street tuner will be able to accurately handle 20-22psi on the street. And handle a race gas map, wether id be 100 oct, or higher..

If I need, or should run a ACV-R, I have no problem doing that. But I want to know if it is really necessary.

I really would like one control device, the stock ecu, controlling all the parameters of the engine, but if I have to run a piggy back the like avc-r, i will. I am just trying to plan out the components of the EM that I will need to look into.

any suggestions greatly appreciated..

Nick