Richy Rich and Mr. Cobb (Stg 2)

WolfPlayer · 08-01-2005, 06:57 AM

Nothing like 9.8-10.1 AFRs with Injector Duty Cycles over 100%. This is a clear illustration why you want to use StreetTuner. Cobb's maps are crazy rich and drive IDCs through the roof. Definitely 'safe' for an off the shelf map that needs to meet conditions across North America. However, not even close to optimum. StreetTuner rocks.

t

daemon · 08-01-2005, 09:26 AM

That's what I was talking about in the other thread. The fuel map doesn't call for AFRs that rich, yet you hit them. Mine aren't quite that rich, but still richer than the fuel map is asking for in open loop. One way I know of to fix that is the adjust the intake calibration. For me, adjusting values >3.6V seems the way to go and I've already worked out some potential numbers. I'm just not sure if I should do it because I might be missing something in the larger picture such as the ECU doing it on purpose.

normansti · 08-01-2005, 09:42 AM

i would get streettuner but i dont know how to tune

LVSTi · 08-01-2005, 09:43 AM

I'm using v1.02 and mine are 11.4 across the board.

***Datadatum*** · 08-01-2005, 09:44 AM

It appears to be a common safety thing for mail-order tuning... I saw similar AFR ratio and IDC's with a stage 2 UTEC + Tuner on stock TXS maps. I'm now running AFR's around 11.5, and IDC's peak around 93.

daemon · 08-01-2005, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LVSTi

I'm using v1.02 and mine are 11.4 across the board.

What O2 sensor are you reading that with? Stock sensor can't read below about 11.4, FWIW.

WolfPlayer · 08-01-2005, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normansti

i would get streettuner but i dont know how to tune

That's what keeps people from not jumping in. They think they don't know how to tune. If you understand engine theory then you have 90% of what you need. How hard is it to make a few clicks of the mouse changing AFRs by about 1 point? It's not. It's pretty darn easy. Takes a few minutes at most. Hmmmm, 10.0 AFR at 5400rpms and 3.0 load? No problem. Let me find that load and that RPM 'cell' and raise the AFR by half a point. Easy. Now I'll retest and I should get ~10.4-10.7 AFRs around that load/RPM value. Then I'll go back and adjust it by another 0.25. Retest, etc, etc, etc. Granted, I am not just doing one cell. I am adjusting many cells at one time. However, that is no biggie.

... this isn't black art people. Well, maybe some of it is

But, adjusting AFRs is a walk in the park (IMHO).

t

R4ND0M_AX3 · 08-01-2005, 12:05 PM

Tim,
What are your thoughts on calibrating the MAF vs. just fudging the fuel table to get what you want on the WBo2?

If possible I'd like to get the ECU to think that 10.5:1 really is that but is it worth the effort or even possible?

normansti · 08-01-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

That's what keeps people from not jumping in. They think they don't know how to tune. If you understand engine theory then you have 90% of what you need. How hard is it to make a few clicks of the mouse changing AFRs by about 1 point? It's not. It's pretty darn easy. Takes a few minutes at most. Hmmmm, 10.0 AFR at 5400rpms and 3.0 load? No problem. Let me find that load and that RPM 'cell' and raise the AFR by half a point. Easy. Now I'll retest and I should get ~10.4-10.7 AFRs around that load/RPM value. Then I'll go back and adjust it by another 0.25. Retest, etc, etc, etc. Granted, I am not just doing one cell. I am adjusting many cells at one time. However, that is no biggie.

... this isn't black art people. Well, maybe some of it is

But, adjusting AFRs is a walk in the park (IMHO).

t

english please

WolfPlayer · 08-01-2005, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normansti

english please

I guess that solves it

If you don't know what 'AFR', 'RPMs', and 'load' are then you shouldn't tune. That means you don't understand engine theory.

t

normansti · 08-01-2005, 04:16 PM

thats what im saying. I understand rpm and somewhat of afr but about load I have no idea. but i want street tuner

C43 · 08-01-2005, 05:29 PM

You should go to a shop that uses Cobb and have them make a map for you. You can also buy some books on "engine theory"

WolfPlayer · 08-01-2005, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R4ND0M_AX3

Tim,
What are your thoughts on calibrating the MAF vs. just fudging the fuel table to get what you want on the WBo2?

If possible I'd like to get the ECU to think that 10.5:1 really is that but is it worth the effort or even possible?

Honestly, I haven't given it much thought yet. My AFR tables appear to be off by 0.7-1.2 AFR. I just fuel tweaked my rescaled map and ended up with AFRs in the map of close to 12.3 or so ... even though the wideband shows 11.0s across the board. My MAF shouldn't be off given that I am running a stock airbox. However, I do have it desnorkeled with a 3" velocity stack. I might have to slap the silencer back on just for the hell of it to see what happens. But, I don't plan to do that for awhile. Everybody I know with a wideband and StreetTuner is showing AFRs that are 'off' from what is listed in the table. This is with stock airboxes too. Not sure on this one yet - but will keep it in the back of my mind. In any case, it doesn't seem to be hurting anything so I'll just roll with it and re-snorkel for a test later down the line.

t

R4ND0M_AX3 · 08-02-2005, 07:13 AM

I guess the only issue you would have to think about is the load calc. Either the maf is scaled right when everything is stock and the fuel calcs are off or the fuel calcs are dead on and the maf scaling (and subsequently the load calc) is off.

It's a dilema I'm struggeling with. So much so that I go to do it one way and I start second guessing it and end up not touching anything.

daemon · 08-02-2005, 07:57 AM

I'm starting to think there are just too many factors at play. Humidity can change AFR a bit it seems. There also seems to be fuel enrichment based on coolant temperatures. What I think we need to do is just get close and let the ECU learning take care of that last little bit of fine tuning.

To some extent, the numbers in StreetTuner are arbitrary anyway. The point is to adjust them for max benefit while maintaining safety. Your climate and geography will dictate some of that so that each persons best map might differ from anothers even given identical mods.

08-01-2005, 06:57 AM	#1
WolfPlayer Moderator & ECU Tech Car: 05 CGM STI Fav Mod: mo boostaz Location: Fredneck, MD Posts: 3,695 Join Date: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	Richy Rich and Mr. Cobb (Stg 2) Nothing like 9.8-10.1 AFRs with Injector Duty Cycles over 100%. This is a clear illustration why you want to use StreetTuner. Cobb's maps are crazy rich and drive IDCs through the roof. Definitely 'safe' for an off the shelf map that needs to meet conditions across North America. However, not even close to optimum. StreetTuner rocks. t This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad. Last edited by WolfPlayer : 08-01-2005 at 07:15 AM.

08-02-2005, 07:57 AM	#15
daemon The Next Petter Solberg Car: 2004 STi Location: Florida Posts: 855 Join Date: Feb 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	I'm starting to think there are just too many factors at play. Humidity can change AFR a bit it seems. There also seems to be fuel enrichment based on coolant temperatures. What I think we need to do is just get close and let the ECU learning take care of that last little bit of fine tuning. To some extent, the numbers in StreetTuner are arbitrary anyway. The point is to adjust them for max benefit while maintaining safety. Your climate and geography will dictate some of that so that each persons best map might differ from anothers even given identical mods. This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

08-01-2005, 09:26 AM	#2
daemon The Next Petter Solberg Car: 2004 STi Location: Florida Posts: 855 Join Date: Feb 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	That's what I was talking about in the other thread. The fuel map doesn't call for AFRs that rich, yet you hit them. Mine aren't quite that rich, but still richer than the fuel map is asking for in open loop. One way I know of to fix that is the adjust the intake calibration. For me, adjusting values >3.6V seems the way to go and I've already worked out some potential numbers. I'm just not sure if I should do it because I might be missing something in the larger picture such as the ECU doing it on purpose.

08-01-2005, 09:42 AM	#3
normansti Spec C Club Location: Dearborn MI Posts: 1,251 Join Date: Aug 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	i would get streettuner but i dont know how to tune

08-01-2005, 09:43 AM	#4
LVSTi Junior STI Driver Posts: 52 Join Date: Nov 2003 Trader Rating: (2)	I'm using v1.02 and mine are 11.4 across the board.

08-01-2005, 09:44 AM	#5
*Datadatum* 100% More Wingless Car: 05 STi + 08 OBXT Fav Mod: baby seats Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 5,702 Join Date: May 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	It appears to be a common safety thing for mail-order tuning... I saw similar AFR ratio and IDC's with a stage 2 UTEC + Tuner on stock TXS maps. I'm now running AFR's around 11.5, and IDC's peak around 93.

08-01-2005, 12:05 PM	#8
R4ND0M_AX3 Grassroots STI Racer Car: 05 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: Cobb StreetTUNER Location: Elk Grove, CA USA Posts: 592 Join Date: Jul 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Tim, What are your thoughts on calibrating the MAF vs. just fudging the fuel table to get what you want on the WBo2? If possible I'd like to get the ECU to think that 10.5:1 really is that but is it worth the effort or even possible?

08-01-2005, 04:16 PM	#11
normansti Spec C Club Location: Dearborn MI Posts: 1,251 Join Date: Aug 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	thats what im saying. I understand rpm and somewhat of afr but about load I have no idea. but i want street tuner

08-01-2005, 05:29 PM	#12
C43 Professional STI Racer Car: 04 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: leather Location: Newtown to Philly every day Posts: 603 Join Date: Jun 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	You should go to a shop that uses Cobb and have them make a map for you. You can also buy some books on "engine theory"

08-02-2005, 07:13 AM	#14
R4ND0M_AX3 Grassroots STI Racer Car: 05 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: Cobb StreetTUNER Location: Elk Grove, CA USA Posts: 592 Join Date: Jul 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	I guess the only issue you would have to think about is the load calc. Either the maf is scaled right when everything is stock and the fuel calcs are off or the fuel calcs are dead on and the maf scaling (and subsequently the load calc) is off. It's a dilema I'm struggeling with. So much so that I go to do it one way and I start second guessing it and end up not touching anything.