WG DC and Boost log...

STirish · 07-25-2005, 08:57 PM

Hey Guys,

Can someone post a WG DC log with actual boost, requested boost, RPM, and maybe your boost target, and your WG DC maps?

I did some logging with the base ST StgII map and am trying to understand where the values are coming from during a WOT 3 or 4 gear run. Basically I'm wondering where the max duty cycle the ECU will allow is being stored. Obviously the requested boost can not be met 4750rpms and up. At this point the boost error grows greater and greater and should be sourcing correction values from the Coarse Gain. What is puzzling is the WG DCs are shooting to 90% (requested 75%) and staying there. If the change in WG DC is related to the coarse gain correction %, it should correct only 1.4%? It is changing the WG DC by 15% from the requested WG DC (high). Is this just the ECU doing everything in it's power to reach the requested boost? If so is there a way to limit how high the WG DC will go besides lowering the boost target?

Sorry if this is a stupid question...

Thanks,
Guys

WolfPlayer · 07-26-2005, 03:57 AM

I have never seen what you mentioned. In every single case the actual wastegate DC has NEVER exceeded the value specified in the WGDC (high) map. My Cobb Stg II would max out at 75% DC (as specified in the map). I currently have the upper limits set to 90%. It never goes past 90%. With everything that I have seen ... the max WGDC has never went beyond the value specified in the high WGDC map.

I'd post a log but it's on my laptop. In any case, I think you see what I am saying.

Also, there should be no reason to mess with the Turbo Dynamics tables (I think that is what you are referring to by Coarse Gain???) with a stock turbo.

t

STirish · 07-26-2005, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

I have never seen what you mentioned. In every single case the actual wastegate DC has NEVER exceeded the value specified in the WGDC (high) map. My Cobb Stg II would max out at 75% DC (as specified in the map). I currently have the upper limits set to 90%. It never goes past 90%. With everything that I have seen ... the max WGDC has never went beyond the value specified in the high WGDC map.

I'd post a log but it's on my laptop. In any case, I think you see what I am saying.

Also, there should be no reason to mess with the Turbo Dynamics tables (I think that is what you are referring to by Coarse Gain???) with a stock turbo.

t

Hmmm, this is a little disturbing. Any ideas as to why the ECU would just jump to 90% WG DCs?

Yes, I am speaking of the Coarse Gain high/low. When I went looking for answers as to why I'm hitting 90% DC, these were two of the maps we (Evo buddy and I) went digging into. These maps are the large error lookups from what I have read.

Thanks for the help,
Rob

WolfPlayer · 07-26-2005, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STirish

Hmmm, this is a little disturbing. Any ideas as to why the ECU would just jump to 90% WG DCs?

Yes, I am speaking of the Coarse Gain high/low. When I went looking for answers as to why I'm hitting 90% DC, these were two of the maps we (Evo buddy and I) went digging into. These maps are the large error lookups from what I have read.

Thanks for the help,
Rob

Have you changed the Dynamics tables? It was my understanding from Cobb that these are basically used to help the turbo reach targets without overboosting. I think the help file talks about it.

t

STirish · 07-26-2005, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

Have you changed the Dynamics tables? It was my understanding from Cobb that these are basically used to help the turbo reach targets without overboosting. I think the help file talks about it.

t

We have not touched any values yet, we've just been logging and trying understand what maps are affecting what values. Basically trying to explain to ourselves what it happening and seeing the evidence. All of this while making sure the cars vitals are in the blue.

I believe the Dynamic tables are the Coarse high/low that I was speaking of earlier. The problem is none of the values correlate to a WG DC that is 15% off. The most the Coarse high table *should* change (based on the actual vs. requested error) is 1.6%, unless somehow the % change can compound on itself if the error continues to grow? For example my max DC at this point, based on the WG DC High maps, is 75%. Given that the max error is 1.6%, I think I should see no more than 75*1.016 = 76.2%. Another thing that bothers me is that the DC pegs at 90% and stays there. Why not push it to the 95% limit?

jays05 · 07-26-2005, 06:27 AM

I have also never seen my WG duty cycles exceed the values specified in the WG Duty (High) map, that map seems to be a hard limit. I haven't touched any of the turbo dynamics options, seems like there is a high probability that I would screw something up.

Slightly off topic... the Perrin EBCS is a $90 part and will let you hit the boost targets you want while running a max of 40-60% on the wastegate duty cycle.

WolfPlayer · 07-26-2005, 06:42 AM

Rob,

Here's what I would suggest ...

1) Download the 1.10 map from Cobb. You might already have a copy. But, download a new copy. Put it somewhere so that you only work with that new copy.
2) Open up ST and open a copy of the NEW 1.10 map.
3) Save a copy of the new 1.10 map as a realtime map.
4) Open up Map Manager and put these 2 new maps on your AccessPort. Consider removing ALL maps from your AccessPort before even putting these 2 new ones on there (just to be sure you are working with the new maps)
5) Do a base reflash using the latest Cobb Map you just put on the AccessPort
6) Load the realtime map you just put on the AccessPort
7) Go out an log data.

Cobb doesn't wipe the realtime maps when doing a base reflash. Confirmed this with Trey a little while ago. Something just doesn't seem right with what you are talking about. With a Cobb ST map along with the saved realtime map ... you shouldn't ever see anything above 75% when at WOT.

Is it possible that you are running a realtime map with higher % DC's in the high map? It really sounds like that. Something is just freaky and I think you need to start from scratch with a fresh map downloaded from their site. This is why I am suggesting a base reflash with the latest map downloaded from Cobb's site ... followed by installing a realtime map using a FRESHLY created realtime map from a fresh Cobb 1.10 ST map you downloaded.

t

WolfPlayer · 07-26-2005, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaygoesfast

the Perrin EBCS is a $90 part and will let you hit the boost targets you want while running a max of 40-60% on the wastegate duty cycle.

What if I specify 21psi at 6000rpms?!?

ahahahaha. j/k jay.

STirish · 07-26-2005, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

Rob,

Here's what I would suggest ...

1) Download the 1.10 map from Cobb. You might already have a copy. But, download a new copy. Put it somewhere so that you only work with that new copy.
2) Open up ST and open a copy of the NEW 1.10 map.
3) Save a copy of the new 1.10 map as a realtime map.
4) Open up Map Manager and put these 2 new maps on your AccessPort. Consider removing ALL maps from your AccessPort before even putting these 2 new ones on there (just to be sure you are working with the new maps)
5) Do a base reflash using the latest Cobb Map you just put on the AccessPort
6) Load the realtime map you just put on the AccessPort
7) Go out an log data.

Cobb doesn't wipe the realtime maps when doing a base reflash. Confirmed this with Trey a little while ago. Something just doesn't seem right with what you are talking about. With a Cobb ST map along with the saved realtime map ... you shouldn't ever see anything above 75% when at WOT.

Is it possible that you are running a realtime map with higher % DC's in the high map? It really sounds like that. Something is just freaky and I think you need to start from scratch with a fresh map downloaded from their site. This is why I am suggesting a base reflash with the latest map downloaded from Cobb's site ... followed by installing a realtime map using a FRESHLY created realtime map from a fresh Cobb 1.10 ST map you downloaded.

t

Thanks T,

I'll try your suggestion during lunch or when I get home tonight.

Rob

STirish · 07-27-2005, 06:27 AM

Ok, so I downloaded a new StgII v110.stb and created a realtime map from that base file. Loaded to new base file into the ECU, then told it to run the new realtime map I had created. Did a little logging on the way to work. Weather was very turbo friendly in the lower 60's. I did a 3rd and 4th gear pull.

The WG DCs are still getting into the low 80% range and the highest I have specified in the WG DC High map is 75%. 4th gear DCs were pegged at 79.2% to 81.2% from 5400-6400RPMs. I'm still puzzled, the WG DC curve seems to behave until after 5200RPMs. After that it pegs.

Any ideas? I'm going to reset the ECU and zero out the WG coarse high and low map to see if that changes anything later today.

I'll work on posting my logs later today.

WolfPlayer · 07-27-2005, 07:06 AM

Wow. I have no clue. That goes against everything that I know. Try an ECU reset first before changing anything else. I actually should have put that in my directions above. If that doesn't work you definitely want to send an e-mail to Trey at Cobb. He always answers my e-mails. I'm really interested in this.

t

STirish · 07-27-2005, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfPlayer

Wow. I have no clue. That goes against everything that I know. Try an ECU reset first before changing anything else. I actually should have put that in my directions above. If that doesn't work you definitely want to send an e-mail to Trey at Cobb. He always answers my e-mails. I'm really interested in this.

t

I just got off the phone with Cobb and am enlightened. Apparently there are a few compensation maps that we just don't get (Ugh...I want the protuner), such as a temp and Barometric comp maps. Being that I'm at a mile high plus, the compensation map will correct the Wategate Tables up to 50%. Ouch. I guess I'm going to have to pull the boost targets down to control the WG DCs.

This is great info, I love this!

Rob

WolfPlayer · 07-27-2005, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STirish

I just got off the phone with Cobb and am enlightened. Apparently there are a few compensation maps that we just don't get (Ugh...I want the protuner), such as a temp and Barometric comp maps. Being that I'm at a mile high plus, the compensation map will correct the Wategate Tables up to 50%. Ouch. I guess I'm going to have to pull the boost targets down to control the WG DCs.

This is great info, I love this!

Rob

Rob,

Awesome. I assumed you were at Sea Level. A 'few' maps we don't get?! ROFL. That is a gross understatement. We don't have access to many many many maps. Trust me ... we're talking probably 50+ maps that we don't have access to ... maybe closer to 100 or more. I have already put in my request to Cobb (awhile ago) for the WGDC compensation maps ... like the barometric compensation table as well as the IAT compensation table. I think the IAT table is absolutely necessary for us since we could use that to help boost creep in very cold climates.

... I think this forum is finally starting to come alive

t

cnstman · 07-27-2005, 10:23 AM

i am at high elevation also and see the same kinds of things, with a target boost too high the duty cycles will be raised above your highest setting.

WolfPlayer · 11-30-2005, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhluhr

Any word on this being included anytime soon?

edit - nevermind... those are the "Air Temp Compensation A" and "Air Temp Compensation B" maps. Any idea what the difference is?

No Clue

t

07-25-2005, 08:57 PM	#1
STirish Spec C Club Car: '99 M3/'03 WRX Avant Fav Mod: Modification is wrong! Location: SLC, UT Posts: 1,026 Join Date: Sep 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	WG DC and Boost log... Hey Guys, Can someone post a WG DC log with actual boost, requested boost, RPM, and maybe your boost target, and your WG DC maps? I did some logging with the base ST StgII map and am trying to understand where the values are coming from during a WOT 3 or 4 gear run. Basically I'm wondering where the max duty cycle the ECU will allow is being stored. Obviously the requested boost can not be met 4750rpms and up. At this point the boost error grows greater and greater and should be sourcing correction values from the Coarse Gain. What is puzzling is the WG DCs are shooting to 90% (requested 75%) and staying there. If the change in WG DC is related to the coarse gain correction %, it should correct only 1.4%? It is changing the WG DC by 15% from the requested WG DC (high). Is this just the ECU doing everything in it's power to reach the requested boost? If so is there a way to limit how high the WG DC will go besides lowering the boost target? Sorry if this is a stupid question... Thanks, Guys This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad. Last edited by STirish : 07-25-2005 at 09:01 PM.

07-27-2005, 06:27 AM	#10
STirish Spec C Club Car: '99 M3/'03 WRX Avant Fav Mod: Modification is wrong! Location: SLC, UT Posts: 1,026 Join Date: Sep 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	Ok, so I downloaded a new StgII v110.stb and created a realtime map from that base file. Loaded to new base file into the ECU, then told it to run the new realtime map I had created. Did a little logging on the way to work. Weather was very turbo friendly in the lower 60's. I did a 3rd and 4th gear pull. The WG DCs are still getting into the low 80% range and the highest I have specified in the WG DC High map is 75%. 4th gear DCs were pegged at 79.2% to 81.2% from 5400-6400RPMs. I'm still puzzled, the WG DC curve seems to behave until after 5200RPMs. After that it pegs. Any ideas? I'm going to reset the ECU and zero out the WG coarse high and low map to see if that changes anything later today. I'll work on posting my logs later today. Last edited by STirish : 07-27-2005 at 06:46 AM.

07-26-2005, 03:57 AM	#2
WolfPlayer Moderator & ECU Tech Car: 05 CGM STI Fav Mod: mo boostaz Location: Fredneck, MD Posts: 3,703 Join Date: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	I have never seen what you mentioned. In every single case the actual wastegate DC has NEVER exceeded the value specified in the WGDC (high) map. My Cobb Stg II would max out at 75% DC (as specified in the map). I currently have the upper limits set to 90%. It never goes past 90%. With everything that I have seen ... the max WGDC has never went beyond the value specified in the high WGDC map. I'd post a log but it's on my laptop. In any case, I think you see what I am saying. Also, there should be no reason to mess with the Turbo Dynamics tables (I think that is what you are referring to by Coarse Gain???) with a stock turbo. t

07-26-2005, 06:27 AM	#6
jays05 Spec C Club Car: Blue 05 STI Fav Mod: Synapse FMIC Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,701 Join Date: Nov 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	I have also never seen my WG duty cycles exceed the values specified in the WG Duty (High) map, that map seems to be a hard limit. I haven't touched any of the turbo dynamics options, seems like there is a high probability that I would screw something up. Slightly off topic... the Perrin EBCS is a $90 part and will let you hit the boost targets you want while running a max of 40-60% on the wastegate duty cycle.

07-26-2005, 06:42 AM	#7
WolfPlayer Moderator & ECU Tech Car: 05 CGM STI Fav Mod: mo boostaz Location: Fredneck, MD Posts: 3,703 Join Date: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	Rob, Here's what I would suggest ... 1) Download the 1.10 map from Cobb. You might already have a copy. But, download a new copy. Put it somewhere so that you only work with that new copy. 2) Open up ST and open a copy of the NEW 1.10 map. 3) Save a copy of the new 1.10 map as a realtime map. 4) Open up Map Manager and put these 2 new maps on your AccessPort. Consider removing ALL maps from your AccessPort before even putting these 2 new ones on there (just to be sure you are working with the new maps) 5) Do a base reflash using the latest Cobb Map you just put on the AccessPort 6) Load the realtime map you just put on the AccessPort 7) Go out an log data. Cobb doesn't wipe the realtime maps when doing a base reflash. Confirmed this with Trey a little while ago. Something just doesn't seem right with what you are talking about. With a Cobb ST map along with the saved realtime map ... you shouldn't ever see anything above 75% when at WOT. Is it possible that you are running a realtime map with higher % DC's in the high map? It really sounds like that. Something is just freaky and I think you need to start from scratch with a fresh map downloaded from their site. This is why I am suggesting a base reflash with the latest map downloaded from Cobb's site ... followed by installing a realtime map using a FRESHLY created realtime map from a fresh Cobb 1.10 ST map you downloaded. t

07-27-2005, 07:06 AM	#11
WolfPlayer Moderator & ECU Tech Car: 05 CGM STI Fav Mod: mo boostaz Location: Fredneck, MD Posts: 3,703 Join Date: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	Wow. I have no clue. That goes against everything that I know. Try an ECU reset first before changing anything else. I actually should have put that in my directions above. If that doesn't work you definitely want to send an e-mail to Trey at Cobb. He always answers my e-mails. I'm really interested in this. t

07-27-2005, 10:23 AM	#14
cnstman Spec C Club Car: 04 STi Fav Mod: GT-35R Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 1,326 Join Date: Jan 2003 Trader Rating: (2)	i am at high elevation also and see the same kinds of things, with a target boost too high the duty cycles will be raised above your highest setting.