[Tbagger]

Alright not that I've gotten "bored" with my stock motor but I was kicking around the idea of doing a build. I've picked a location and I think it's going to be Automasters for the removal of my stock engine and to have them get me to 450whp, quick spool daily driver.

I was wondering what others have paid for such a thing. Now this would include your basic motor upgrades, FMIC and turbo upgrade. I'm looking for ballpark figures of what your build costed with labor and the end all tally of parts etc.

No offense but if you don't have a built motor I don't want speculations.

If you don't feel comfortable about posting it, if you could PM the numbers that'd be great.

Thanks in advanced
Bagger

[Tbagger]

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[Flycaster]

A motor, all the mods, all supporting parts (like a good clutch), all labor, and all tuned up too? Starting from scratch? Whoeee, get out the wallet.

You're looking at $12-20K, depending on how crazy you get and who does the labor. That's all-in. If you want to stick with APS parts, a new built motor, with cams and heads, you're gonna be at the high end...

[modaddict]

Yeah....12k for them to do it....depending on mods...

[Flycaster]

It is what it is...

[mxpop]

I doubt you could do what it takes to get 450whp on pump gas (unless race gas? Meth?) and also get into the block for less than $15k.

The turbo, IC, injectors, gas, and esp the tuning will get you the power, not the engine. Sure, higher/bigger pistons, cams, and porting will help but most of the real power is made by parts outside of the motor.

BTW, there are many guys that have about 450whp on the stock motor because thay have a smart build and a good tune etc.

With my headers this coming monday, I should be at about 430whp on race gas+meth, all on stock motor-clutch-and TMIC. That doesnt quite answer your built block question but it may shed some light on your plans.

[Tbagger]

The only reason why I ask about internals is that I don't want something that will be gone in 10k miles. I want a realiable daily driven 450hp monster. With no worries or blowing a rod or something. Then I'd have to go and do it again. I've heard that the motor is good with anything under 21 PSi with a big turbo on it. It's boost that kills it.

[chaos311clarity]

the only way to have a truely reliable 450whp is to buy a car that makes 45- whp from the factory... once you start modding a car it starts knocking down the reliability factor IMO... you start running a higher and higher chance of something happening... and what mxpop said is true... the built motor is not necessarily going to net you the power you want... a smart overall build/tune will

[Tbagger]

Maybe I miss phrased my first post. The idea of having a built block is not to MAKE power but to HANDLE the power. Of couse strong compenents don't = power but they do handle power. My overall goal is a 450hp DD that doesn't blowup because of weak internals etc. I was pondering the idea of built internals with an element turbo and a sweet ass tune.

[chaos311clarity]

if youve got the bank roll, then go for it man, theres nothing better than peace of mind.

[LONEWOLF]

If I ever could afford to spend over $10,000 and beyond, I will rather build a monster H-6 cylinder engine from a Legacy and put it in my Sti, but that is just me.

[mxpop]

I understand and you are correct. A properly built engine will handle the power better and is a smart move (and expensive!).

Keep in mind tho, most engine failures are from either a tune gone bad, an oiling issue, overheating, over-rev, or detonation. Engines rarely blow from simply too much power alone, it usually needs one of the above problems.

Yes, a built engine will give a slightly bigger safety margin but it still needs proper oiling, cooling, no det, etc.

If mine blows, then I will take it to the dealer with the stock muffler tip back on and hope for warranty! (yeah right ). Actually, that will be my time to go with a better engine but in the meantime, I'm trying to see how long my stocker will last.

[CrawfordPerformance.com]

Originally Posted by mxpop

I understand and you are correct. A properly built engine will handle the power better and is a smart move (and expensive!).

Keep in mind tho, most engine failures are from either a tune gone bad, an oiling issue, overheating, over-rev, or detonation. Engines rarely blow from simply too much power alone, it usually needs one of the above problems.

Yes, a built engine will give a slightly bigger safety margin but it still needs proper oiling, cooling, no det, etc.

If mine blows, then I will take it to the dealer with the stock muffler tip back on and hope for warranty! (yeah right ). Actually, that will be my time to go with a better engine but in the meantime, I'm trying to see how long my stocker will last.

+1^

On a side note, are you goin to Willow Springs nest week for the Tme Atack?

[Flycaster]

Originally Posted by Tbagger

...It's boost that kills it.

In most cases, it's too much timing advance and/or an AFR that is too lean. Phil's demonstrated this pretty conclusively with his time attack car. 12K racing miles on a bone stock motor at 450+whp - it eats no oil and the compression is still right up there. He's a strong proponent of light timing and heavy boost - it works.

IMO, too many tuners ramp up the mid and upper range timing to get the fattest dyno torque curve they can, and then the customers wonder why their rod bearings go to hell a few thousand miles down the road...it happens over and over.