[WRX4ME LE 482]

Oh my bad, an I6. I think I new that but I forgot. Not trying to risk an EVO vs STi thread, but I didnt realize they could rev that high. That would explain why they always seem to have such high hp and lower torque, while we are the opposite. Hp is so damn overrated, Id take the torque anyday. I do like the idea of revving high though.

[ilivas]

Originally Posted by WRX4ME LE 482

Yea, of course it's cheaper and easier to soup up a Subra. You have a big V6 that makes more power easily.

I can see our cars costing more because of the extra cams, but we rev just as high as the EVO, and Im pretty sure we are up against about the same obstacles in getting that higher.

Ive heard soo many ppl throw around EVOs make more power easier, but I still cant see why it's true. Surely, them being cheaper and easier with cams isnt the only reason.,,

evos have a higher volumetric efficiency than stis. That's the main reason they're making more power. Evos have a stronger shortblock, freer flowing heads, etc.

[SNE2040]

Originally Posted by WRX4ME LE 482

Yea, of course it's cheaper and easier to soup up a Subra. You have a big V6 that makes more power easily.

I can see our cars costing more because of the extra cams, but we rev just as high as the EVO, and Im pretty sure we are up against about the same obstacles in getting that higher.

Ive heard soo many ppl throw around EVOs make more power easier, but I still cant see why it's true. Surely, them being cheaper and easier with cams isnt the only reason.,,

Fully closed deck block (Evo) vs Semi open deck (STi)
Cast Iron vs Aluminum
etc.

[Sinister redlines]

Originally Posted by SNE2040

Fully closed deck block (Evo) vs Semi open deck (STi)
Cast Iron vs Aluminum
etc.

Both of those dont make any power. Closed deck allows you to have higher combustion pressures, however sleeving with some dartons can fix that. Cast iron vs aluminum? I have never seen a STi block fail unless a rod went through it. Have you ever seen a Donovan block? They are aluminum and produce over 8000hp in the top fuel cars.

[berdugo]

I love your opinions that's why I ordered your products
I

Originally Posted by Crawford/I-Speed

Point well taken...

But don't you think we've won enough Time Attacks and set enough track records to back up our dyno numbers? You personally said we needed to back up our numbers at the track and we took your opinion to heart, and to the track

[Neanderthal Racing]

it is hard to argue with success and the crawford car is the current top time attack dog. however, to say, because one car is winning on stock cams no one other than drag racers should include them their own build plan is kind of silly.

if you have the budget, reasonable headwork that doesn't push the powerband too far to the right makes plenty of sense. a stg 1 p&p, upgraded springs and retainers and intelligent cam selection are definately worth considering.

[bobzilla]

I am looking to make a streetable track car, I am not looking to make huge horsepower numbers. I want a car that spools quickly and maintains its torque curve longer.

I have a couple of questions:
1. How do you keep the torque curve up longer into the rev band? Is the stock turbo just too small to flow enough to keep torque up around 4000-5000 rpm. If one shifts at 6000 rpm the maximum HP the car does not drop down to the maximum torque in the next gear. One would have to short shift to be at the maximum torque in the next gear.

2. What kind of mild porting did Crawford do, just porting the exhaust side or adding larger valves?

3. Where can we find details on the new 2008 STi Time Attack monster that Crawford has made. Always good to learn from others success.

[520]

Yes, the stock turbo is too small and runs out of breathe up top. Thats why the guys who have the fastest 1/4 times short shift to stay in the powerband.

[modaddict]

Crawford usually doesn't do oversized valves........I actually had a conversation with Quirt about this a week ago.

They use 100% stock heads/cams in the new 08 TA car.

The older widebody used stock heads/cams as well *most* of the time. They will do some mild touch up to Subaru castings on both the intake and exhaust, IIRC. Sometimes, they upgrade to standard sized, inconel exhaust valves. (ask Ken Block)

You would honestly be surprised how stock the heads are that they usually use. Having said that, they can have your heads ported to whatever you choose....after all, it's your car.

[calisti]

Originally Posted by bobzilla

I am looking to make a streetable track car, I am not looking to make huge horsepower numbers. I want a car that spools quickly and maintains its torque curve longer.

I have a couple of questions:
1. How do you keep the torque curve up longer into the rev band? Is the stock turbo just too small to flow enough to keep torque up around 4000-5000 rpm. If one shifts at 6000 rpm the maximum HP the car does not drop down to the maximum torque in the next gear. One would have to short shift to be at the maximum torque in the next gear.

2. What kind of mild porting did Crawford do, just porting the exhaust side or adding larger valves?

3. Where can we find details on the new 2008 STi Time Attack monster that Crawford has made. Always good to learn from others success.

I have the same goals as you. Crawford uses Portflow in Harbor City, CA for head work. That's who will be working on my sti head. I'm only doing a valve job, replacing valves with std sized inconel exhaust valves and black nitride intake valves. Supertech dual springs, ti retainers, alloy seats, BC 272 cams. No port work. I don't want to shift any more to the right than the cams will do already. Portflow says with just their valve job it flows like having done some port work.

[calisti]

Originally Posted by Sinister redlines

The point I was making was that larger cams increase lift and duration, vs avcs advance the timing of the cam. I respect your engine building skills dont get me wrong. I just believe in a street car larger cams are benifitial (by this I mean in the 272 range not 280+).

Sinister redlines, how's the drivability with the 272 cams? Are they avcs cams and what brand are they?