Possible Gruppe-s Stage 2 built block issue!

BLUE STINGER · 04-17-2007, 12:14 AM

Hey guys, I'm having some issues with my car right now.

It's currently @ GST getting diagnosed for quite some time. It's making a really weird sound either from the drivetrain or the motor itself after getting the car back from a tune on a drive back home. The car will stall during idle, neutral coast, on the stop with first gear in, and etc. It's hard to describe the sound, but it's a combination of a hissing and grinding sound (kinda like a rattle snake sound) either the from the engine or the tranny . I have a gruppe-s built block with about 3000 miles of break in miles with a safety base map/stock turbo and I've performed many oil changes and each time copper metal flakes were found in the oil. I'm guessing it's a bearing problem, but the car was never starved of oil and the motor was professionaly installed by Gruppe-s during the date of the purchase and gives me reason to believe that I was given a defective motor. Either way, someone owes me a new motor if there is something wrong with it.

The other issue that the mechanics @ GST are telling me is that it could be the drivetrain possibly be the tranny or the center diff to be more specific. Now I've had my share of broken diffs, and have friends that have blown center diffs so I know exactly what some of the symptoms are. Being a certified mechanic myself I can confirm that the gears are fine, I can shift through all the gears with no issue. There is no check engine light pointing towards the dccd or tranny. No locking or binding during corners or driving in straight lines. The clutch is fine (which we thought first was the culprit), and even with the clutch depress in or out I can still here the sounds during free revs. I took my tranny out in the shop and shook it a couple times with a few man power and there was nothing loose in the tranny. The input shaft spinned freely with no binding what so ever. So everything seems ok in the tranny. I can also disconnect some sensors and that should turn off the dccd/diff, but I really can't do that since the car is not in my possesion.

There has been no oil/tranny oil changes done to check for metals recently. So I can't confirm if there are large amount of metals in the motor or in the tranny oil. But I've seen copper flakes on the oil dipstick when checking the oil. I'm currently @ the mercy of GST so all work and time is done through them or borrowed time to use the lift. All I want is to come to a conclusion with the car so it can be fixed, so any help or opinion would be great.

Now here are some of my question to anyone that can answer them or verify things that I know and don't know just to check if I'm in the same page with everyone else so can I rule things out.
1. Can it be center/front diff? What kind of symptoms are people getting with broken diffs? Can it cause the car to stall and die during idle or in gear.
2. Could it be a bearing problem? Now even with a rod bearing or etc., the car can still be driven with no stalling/dying out issues. I don't remember hearing a clanking sound, but there is definitely something wrong. Now will a car with a bearing problem cause the car to die or stall out? The motor is not seized, so it's still running.
3. Oil pump issues? Probably from all the metal flakes.
4. I can go on and on, but I think I will leave it at this and get more ideas from you guys since it's getting late.

Any helpful info would be great!.

I will chime in more tomorrow when my mind is fresh.

Thanks,

Ron

R4ND0M_AX3 · 04-17-2007, 06:06 AM

One of my timing belt idlers was bad after I got my motor swapped. It took a little bit to hunt down the source.

Boxer112 · 04-17-2007, 07:02 AM

i suggest b4 u post here where there is a possibility of someone getting blamed, you contact appropriate vendors

BLUE STINGER · 04-17-2007, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxer112

i suggest b4 u post here where there is a possibility of someone getting blamed, you contact appropriate vendors

Not too sure what you're trying to say here,

but I'm not here to target any vendors. I have an issue with my car that I'm trying to get opinions in, I currently have a professional shop working in my car and we don't know what's wrong with it. Regardless, thanks for the advice.

Ron

BLUE STINGER · 04-17-2007, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R4ND0M_AX3

One of my timing belt idlers was bad after I got my motor swapped. It took a little bit to hunt down the source.

I will look into that.

Ron

Boxer112 · 04-17-2007, 09:05 AM

im not saying you are targeting vendors but it doesnt mean other people wont.I honestly hope everything works out for you though.

mcdrama · 04-17-2007, 09:21 AM

if GST can not find the problem, take it to LIC. Can't beat the level of service, and professionalism there.

RacerXS · 04-17-2007, 09:25 AM

Gruppe-s is the one diagnosing it?

The idling issue sounds like a tune problem or vacuum line off. The other sounds may be a totally different issue.

After 3k, I would not think you would still be seeing metal flakes.

13onesti · 04-17-2007, 10:58 AM

good luck with it my homie
i hope everything works out and you find the answere here ron

BUMP for my homie ron

sean

gilmore25 · 04-17-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RacerXS

Gruppe-s is the one diagnosing it?

The idling issue sounds like a tune problem or vacuum line off. The other sounds may be a totally different issue.

After 3k, I would not think you would still be seeing metal flakes.

No GST are the one's trying to diagnose the problem... There mechanics @ GST are telling him is that it could be the drivetrain possibly be the tranny or the center diff to be more specific...

gilmore25 · 04-17-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 13onesti

good luck with it my homie
i hope everything works out and you find the answere here ron

BUMP for my homie ron

sean

BM_STi · 04-17-2007, 11:33 AM

I think Ron and I already discussed what the problem is

RacerXS · 04-17-2007, 12:43 PM

If it's Grupp-S's motor & they installed it, why don't you take it back to them?

Flycaster · 04-17-2007, 12:59 PM

You shouldn't be seeing much, if any, bronze colored glitter in the oil after the first 2 oil changes - most of it is the [piston/bearing] coating sluffing off and that happens right away. But, if this is bearing material you have to realize this could be coming out the turbo as well - they do share the same oil.

BLUE STINGER · 04-17-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flycaster

You shouldn't be seeing much, if any, bronze colored glitter in the oil after the first 2 oil changes - most of it is the [piston/bearing] coating sluffing off and that happens right away. But, if this is bearing material you have to realize this could be coming out the turbo as well - they do share the same oil.

Thanks for the advice Flycaster.

I've have done probably 7 oil changes on this new block if I can recall. Each time during start up, I primed the oil by removing the coil packs. I check my oil all the time and I'm very thorough with my car since I do most of the work on it myself. It was broken in with my stock turbo, and even with my new turbo with less than 200 miles copper flakes are still present in the oil dipstick.

Ron

04-17-2007, 12:14 AM	#1
BLUE STINGER Professional STI Racer Posts: 606 Join Date: Apr 2005 Trader Rating: (3)	Possible Gruppe-s Stage 2 built block issue! Hey guys, I'm having some issues with my car right now. It's currently @ GST getting diagnosed for quite some time. It's making a really weird sound either from the drivetrain or the motor itself after getting the car back from a tune on a drive back home. The car will stall during idle, neutral coast, on the stop with first gear in, and etc. It's hard to describe the sound, but it's a combination of a hissing and grinding sound (kinda like a rattle snake sound) either the from the engine or the tranny . I have a gruppe-s built block with about 3000 miles of break in miles with a safety base map/stock turbo and I've performed many oil changes and each time copper metal flakes were found in the oil. I'm guessing it's a bearing problem, but the car was never starved of oil and the motor was professionaly installed by Gruppe-s during the date of the purchase and gives me reason to believe that I was given a defective motor. Either way, someone owes me a new motor if there is something wrong with it. The other issue that the mechanics @ GST are telling me is that it could be the drivetrain possibly be the tranny or the center diff to be more specific. Now I've had my share of broken diffs, and have friends that have blown center diffs so I know exactly what some of the symptoms are. Being a certified mechanic myself I can confirm that the gears are fine, I can shift through all the gears with no issue. There is no check engine light pointing towards the dccd or tranny. No locking or binding during corners or driving in straight lines. The clutch is fine (which we thought first was the culprit), and even with the clutch depress in or out I can still here the sounds during free revs. I took my tranny out in the shop and shook it a couple times with a few man power and there was nothing loose in the tranny. The input shaft spinned freely with no binding what so ever. So everything seems ok in the tranny. I can also disconnect some sensors and that should turn off the dccd/diff, but I really can't do that since the car is not in my possesion. There has been no oil/tranny oil changes done to check for metals recently. So I can't confirm if there are large amount of metals in the motor or in the tranny oil. But I've seen copper flakes on the oil dipstick when checking the oil. I'm currently @ the mercy of GST so all work and time is done through them or borrowed time to use the lift. All I want is to come to a conclusion with the car so it can be fixed, so any help or opinion would be great. Now here are some of my question to anyone that can answer them or verify things that I know and don't know just to check if I'm in the same page with everyone else so can I rule things out. 1. Can it be center/front diff? What kind of symptoms are people getting with broken diffs? Can it cause the car to stall and die during idle or in gear. 2. Could it be a bearing problem? Now even with a rod bearing or etc., the car can still be driven with no stalling/dying out issues. I don't remember hearing a clanking sound, but there is definitely something wrong. Now will a car with a bearing problem cause the car to die or stall out? The motor is not seized, so it's still running. 3. Oil pump issues? Probably from all the metal flakes. 4. I can go on and on, but I think I will leave it at this and get more ideas from you guys since it's getting late. Any helpful info would be great!. I will chime in more tomorrow when my mind is fresh. Thanks, Ron This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

04-17-2007, 06:06 AM	#2
R4ND0M_AX3 Grassroots STI Racer Car: 05 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: Cobb StreetTUNER Location: Elk Grove, CA USA Posts: 592 Join Date: Jul 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Possible Gruppe-s Stage 2 built block issue! One of my timing belt idlers was bad after I got my motor swapped. It took a little bit to hunt down the source.

04-17-2007, 07:02 AM	#3
Boxer112 Professional STI Driver Car: 06 Subaru Sti Location: Whereever the military te Posts: 486 Join Date: Apr 2006 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Possible Gruppe-s Stage 2 built block issue! i suggest b4 u post here where there is a possibility of someone getting blamed, you contact appropriate vendors

04-17-2007, 09:05 AM	#6
Boxer112 Professional STI Driver Car: 06 Subaru Sti Location: Whereever the military te Posts: 486 Join Date: Apr 2006 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Possible Gruppe-s Stage 2 built block issue! im not saying you are targeting vendors but it doesnt mean other people wont.I honestly hope everything works out for you though.

04-17-2007, 09:21 AM	#7
mcdrama Lurker Posts: 2 Join Date: Sep 2006 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Possible Gruppe-s Stage 2 built block issue! if GST can not find the problem, take it to LIC. Can't beat the level of service, and professionalism there.

04-17-2007, 09:25 AM	#8
RacerXS "Formerly Surfa2527" Car: 05' Sti Black Fav Mod: Dyslexia Location: Central, NJ Posts: 3,358 Join Date: Oct 2004 Trader Rating: (13)	Re: Possible Gruppe-s Stage 2 built block issue! Gruppe-s is the one diagnosing it? The idling issue sounds like a tune problem or vacuum line off. The other sounds may be a totally different issue. After 3k, I would not think you would still be seeing metal flakes.

04-17-2007, 10:58 AM	#9
13onesti Grassroots STI Racer Car: aka - DownSTi Fav Mod: Big Thanks to Jeremy @ Crucial Racing and ED @ EQ - Tuning Location: BayArea Posts: 515 Join Date: Aug 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Possible Gruppe-s Stage 2 built block issue! good luck with it my homie i hope everything works out and you find the answere here ron BUMP for my homie ron sean

04-17-2007, 11:33 AM	#12
BM_STi S204 Racer Car: 04.7 AW STi Location: NorCal (707) Posts: 2,822 Join Date: Apr 2004 Trader Rating: (6)	Re: Possible Gruppe-s Stage 2 built block issue! I think Ron and I already discussed what the problem is

04-17-2007, 12:43 PM	#13
RacerXS "Formerly Surfa2527" Car: 05' Sti Black Fav Mod: Dyslexia Location: Central, NJ Posts: 3,358 Join Date: Oct 2004 Trader Rating: (13)	Re: Possible Gruppe-s Stage 2 built block issue! If it's Grupp-S's motor & they installed it, why don't you take it back to them?

04-17-2007, 12:59 PM	#14
Flycaster S204 Racer Posts: 2,996 Join Date: Apr 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Possible Gruppe-s Stage 2 built block issue! You shouldn't be seeing much, if any, bronze colored glitter in the oil after the first 2 oil changes - most of it is the [piston/bearing] coating sluffing off and that happens right away. But, if this is bearing material you have to realize this could be coming out the turbo as well - they do share the same oil.