[crystal_Imprezav]

As far as I know ARFabrication.com is the only builder that does EVERYTHING in house (Maybe Cobb not sure though). They warranty THEIR work because they do not have quality control issues or a barrier there as opposed to someone who contracts out there motor builds and then resells them. Once you start looking into the extensive attention to detail that is needed to completely design, balance, and blueprint an engine, you will realize why this is so important. A thou of an inch can make a thousand dollar mistake. Just my 2 cents.

[Crewchief]

Originally Posted by Muffnbluff

http://www.axispowerracing.net/index.html

Ron is the fuggin man! He knows Subarus better than Crewchief knows the inside of some Iraqi poontang.

In Iraq yes, not iraqi though . She was a US Air Force Cop. No video's for me anymore, been dating the same girl for 6 months now, record for me, lol. (Sorry to hi-jack)

[2FastCars]

AMR should be on the list too!!

[evilSTi7]

Originally Posted by crystal_Imprezav

THERE

THEIR

[crystal_Imprezav]

Damn, ROFL I tune, grammar come second, lol.

[ITSASTI]

Originally Posted by 2FastCars

AMR should be on the list too!!

Thats right!

[CenCali07STI]

Originally Posted by crystal_Imprezav

A thou of an inch can make a thousand dollar mistake. Just my 2 cents.

Agreed

[Rootus]

Originally Posted by modaddict

it's really a tough choice....think of this.

Most of them have a stg 1 engine that just consists of a new engine, with forged pistons...that's it. They are drop in's, factory replacements. All they do it pop the stock pistons out, put forged ones in. they don't split the block, they don't set the P2W clearances...nothing.

Definitely worth doing research before making a decision. For examle, the Gruppe-S stage one shortblock has forged pistons, rods, and upgraded bearings. They definitely split open the case on that one.

[subiesteye]

why are the gruppe-s engines so much cheaper than all the others..cuz its not a name brand?

[T3h_Clap]

b/c they require a 1500 core charge and they use "helix" rods.

[Rootus]

Originally Posted by T3h_Clap

b/c they require a 1500 core charge and they use "helix" rods.

Hello mouth, meet foot.

Gruppe-S does not require a core charge except on their longblocks. Neither Cobb nor Crawford advertise longblocks.

[Flycaster]

Originally Posted by Rootus

Hello mouth, meet foot.

Gruppe-S does not require a core charge except on their longblocks. Neither Cobb nor Crawford advertise longblocks.

True, but Gruppe S uses reman'd and re-bored JDM blocks, necessitating a one-over piston. Thus, if you ever need/want to rebuild it, you'll have to either find a new block, or sleeve it.

I'm not saying this is "bad", much less underhanded, it's just something to be aware of. Whenver anyone appears to undercut the market, you simply need to find out why, and then determine if that matters to you.

[T3h_Clap]

Originally Posted by Rootus

Hello mouth, meet foot.

Gruppe-S does not require a core charge except on their longblocks. Neither Cobb nor Crawford advertise longblocks.

when looking at the gruppe-s website they list a stage 1 shortblock and a stage 2 race engine.

Subystye asked why their "engines" were less, i stated so.

comparing a gruppe-s Stage 2 long block to other builders short blocks you see a difference in price.

plus when did we specifically exclude this conversation from long blocks?

I agree, I should've said their long blocks require a core charge.

[CenCali07STI]

Originally Posted by Flycaster

True, but Gruppe S uses reman'd and re-bored JDM blocks, necessitating a one-over piston. Thus, if you ever need/want to rebuild it, you'll have to either find a new block, or sleeve it.

I agree it is deffinetly something to be aware of but you have to think about it this way to I have friends who love just american muscle and they will take a small block chevy they found in a shed and throw a little machine work into it and never worry about it. I am sure it is the case with all import motors as long as the machine work is done properly. IMO I just can not wait till someday when the market from years of production like american cars will have a flood of blocks cylinder heads etc... my friends crap their pants when I tell them how much stuff is lol.

[Flycaster]

Originally Posted by crystal_Imprezav

As far as I know ARFabrication.com is the only builder that does EVERYTHING in house (Maybe Cobb not sure though).

Nope. Cobb outsources their machine shop work, but the assembly is all done in-house.

Originally Posted by crystal_Imprezav

They warranty THEIR work because they do not have quality control issues or a barrier there as opposed to someone who contracts out there motor builds and then resells them...

Your point about ARFab is taken, but consider this:

You buy a custom built engine from Howard. He ships it to your tuner. It breaks (hypothetical, of course). Now what? Your tuner rips the motor out, packages it up and sends it back to Howard. Howard says, "It shouldn't have broken, it was my problem, I'll fix it." He does and sends it back to your tuner. Your tuner re-installs the motor, and after break-in, retunes the car (whiich he should). So, who pays your tuner for the roughly 35-40 hours of labor time and out-shipping costs? You. How is this any different than buying a motor from Cobb, Ron, whoever? Seems to me it is exactly the same.

The REAL issue, in my mind, is who is gonna be there when something goes bad. I cannot tell you who many times I've read stories on both boards where the engine builder ends up pointing his finger at the tuner, and vice-versa. And without naming names, I've seen this happen with just about every single one of them. An engine greandes, and everyone puts their tennis shoes on.

Sure, people "chip in" to keep you from going completely thermonuclear, but it's usually only for a pittance of your new, and considerable out-of-pocket expense. So, who ultimately gets screwed? You.