"bobblehead" - the legend continues (starting on page 10) - Page 3

**jsh139** · 01-31-2006, 01:30 PM

So, wait a minute here. Bruce, you sent Crawford your torn down motor so that they could inspect it. And, after they did, they posted that article on their website? What was the point of them doing that?

eatV8 · 01-31-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsh139

So, wait a minute here. Bruce, you sent Crawford your torn down motor so that they could inspect it. And, after they did, they posted that article on their website? What was the point of them doing that?

To show the damage their negligence caused and trying to twist the storey around to make it look like Bruces fault.

AdamBlitzer · 01-31-2006, 01:34 PM

^^ correct...

crawford simply put the blame on phil... and is taking no responsibility...

jonp · 01-31-2006, 01:36 PM

What I gather so far:

This was an assembly flaw and not a design flaw correct?

The motor ran in this condition for some time consuming large amounts of oil. If my car ate oil at 65mi/qt I would know there was something wrong immediatly. If you don't have a massive leak somewhere I don't know how you could think this problem was anything but mechanical.

I blame the spark plugs for being too hard to remove and inspect casually. I bet that Bruce would have known about this definate issue MUCH sooner if he'd been able to see the plugs after every drive.

If this had been figured out in say 500miles or a month I don't think ANY shop would have had a huge problem asking to have the motor back for a look see? It's obviously a mechanical issue that needs to be addressed. Tuning doesn't make oil leave at 65mi/qt. Now months and miles later there is need to rebuild pretty much the entire short block with new parts and a majorly awesome cool project that is put on hold.

I'm not saying Quirt is totally innocent, but don't make the whole engine disaster out to be his fault. Yes, it was his booboo that made the problem, but it didn't need to do this much damage. If you had found the issue sooner and he didn't take care of it right away I would think less of him. As of now, I'm just kind of bummed out about the whole thing. Now the coolest subie project on the planet and the most well known subie engine builder both have issues with each other and the community is starting to take sides, which unfortunatly for Quirt..won't work in his favor no matter what. Bruce, I respect you fully and I'm sorry you got jammed up in your project. Sometimes things like this just happen, and you need to make the best of this somehow. I'm sure Quirt knows he screwed up by not checking the pistons before install, but now he's in a corner and doesn't have anywhere to go. Take it easy and maybe you guys can figure something out.

**jsh139** · 01-31-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eatV8

To show the damage their negligence caused and trying to twist the storey around to make it look like Bruces fault.

OK, that's what I thought. Their comments were very inflammatory, and I was wondering if that was intentional. They can swear up and down that an engine was damaged by detonation, but that doesn't change the <i>reason</i> for the detonation in the first place. If it was indeed a manufacturers defect, I don't see why they wouldn't honor the warranty. There is a warranty on Crawford motors, correct?

Stee · 01-31-2006, 01:45 PM

Cliff Notes:

>Stick with what the factory offered you if you want to avoid headaches such as these.<

With that said, I feel for you Bruce- I know the effort you have been putting into your STi and it really is a letdown that something as major as an engine failure would have to come your way, especially after the fact that the reason people buy modified blocks is to avoid the same thing your going through.

I'm fully supportive of people trying to explore new horizons with automobile modifications and performance but taking it levels such as Bruce will continue to persuade me to 'keep it simple, but keep it smart'.

***Insane06STi*** · 01-31-2006, 01:46 PM

Sorry about that Bruce, I hope everything works out. And as for Crawford? How many members in IWSTI? NABISCO? I-club? Cluwrx? They better step up and change their customer service skills!

boostedrex05 · 01-31-2006, 01:48 PM

so whats a good block to get them is the r4 block worth it or will that blow up 2

**nandanrp** · 01-31-2006, 01:54 PM

Crawford's got a nice curly mullet there.

styx · 01-31-2006, 01:54 PM

I guess you did not receive the memo about quality control. I will foward it on to you again....

Best of luck getting this fixed.

**jsh139** · 01-31-2006, 01:55 PM

Oh, Jesus, you have to be kidding me?! They told him to sit on it, and after he took their advice then they told him, "You should have brought this to our attention sooner." ??????????????

813_05_STi · 01-31-2006, 01:58 PM

Crawford just lost my buisness, I will be shopping elsewhere for my build.
Good luck with your new set up bruce..

AdamBlitzer · 01-31-2006, 01:58 PM

Bruce was so in love with crawford and did not accept that it was the engine burning oil that he sent his turbo away to be inspected and rebuilt i believe. Once it came back and continued to brun oil.. he still was not convinced it was his engine. Bruce truly put his foot forward to eliminate any possibilites. He is no positive it is his engine. It is a sad day, bruce supported crawford 100% and sent a ton of business their way. So sad it has to come down to this. Best of luck B... and like i said... my monster will be on the road before yours!!

sachin · 01-31-2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonp

I'm not saying Quirt is totally innocent, but don't make the whole engine disaster out to be his fault. Yes, it was his booboo that made the problem, but it didn't need to do this much damage. If you had found the issue sooner and he didn't take care of it right away I would think less of him. As of now, I'm just kind of bummed out about the whole thing. Now the coolest subie project on the planet and the most well known subie engine builder both have issues with each other and the community is starting to take sides, which unfortunatly for Quirt..won't work in his favor no matter what. Bruce, I respect you fully and I'm sorry you got jammed up in your project. Sometimes things like this just happen, and you need to make the best of this somehow. I'm sure Quirt knows he screwed up by not checking the pistons before install, but now he's in a corner and doesn't have anywhere to go. Take it easy and maybe you guys can figure something out.

It was a piston design flaw. The piston should never be smaller than the bore. No matter how you assemble a motor if the piston doesn't fit you can't just go buy "PN# 453543-234: Magic Wand" from Subaru and wave it over the motor to fill some material into the cylinder walls. If it was oversized and the tolerances were too close--then you could consider it an assembly flaw of not checking tolerances.

Quirt doesn't consider not checking tolerances a screw up. As he said before--the pistons come the proper size from CP.

I think blaming Bruce sounds a bit too much like victim-blaming..."oh it's her fault she got raped she was in an alley" or "it was his fault he got hit he didn't look both ways before accelerating at his green light and got hit"...such victim blaming gives the victim a false sense of power over the situation to feel more in control. The fact of the matter is he bought a motor from Crawford that was doomed from the start. Whether Bruce caused further damage is irrelevant.

**evilSTi7** · 01-31-2006, 02:04 PM

i dont want to muck this thread up too badly, so i'll just post up a link to it

CUTN EDG: fuel pressure gremlin halts tuning past 5k rpm - everything else stellar

01-31-2006, 01:30 PM	#31
jsh139 How YOU Doin? Car: 2006 Audi S4 Fav Mod: OMGHI2U! Location: Philly 'burbs Posts: 7,719 Join Date: Apr 2004 Trader Rating: (8)	So, wait a minute here. Bruce, you sent Crawford your torn down motor so that they could inspect it. And, after they did, they posted that article on their website? What was the point of them doing that? This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

01-31-2006, 02:04 PM	#45
evilSTi7 The Hoff Fan Club, member #001 Car: 05 WRB/Gold Fav Mod: Hood Scoop Homer Location: Where ever The Hoff is! Posts: 10,333 Join Date: Jul 2004 Trader Rating: (4)	i dont want to muck this thread up too badly, so i'll just post up a link to it CUTN EDG: fuel pressure gremlin halts tuning past 5k rpm - everything else stellar This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

01-31-2006, 01:34 PM	#33
AdamBlitzer Spec C Club Posts: 1,109 Join Date: Jan 2005 Trader Rating: (3)	^^ correct... crawford simply put the blame on phil... and is taking no responsibility...

01-31-2006, 01:36 PM	#34
jonp Junior STI Driver Car: 05 Subaru WRX STi Location: Fremont CA Posts: 166 Join Date: Aug 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	What I gather so far: This was an assembly flaw and not a design flaw correct? The motor ran in this condition for some time consuming large amounts of oil. If my car ate oil at 65mi/qt I would know there was something wrong immediatly. If you don't have a massive leak somewhere I don't know how you could think this problem was anything but mechanical. I blame the spark plugs for being too hard to remove and inspect casually. I bet that Bruce would have known about this definate issue MUCH sooner if he'd been able to see the plugs after every drive. If this had been figured out in say 500miles or a month I don't think ANY shop would have had a huge problem asking to have the motor back for a look see? It's obviously a mechanical issue that needs to be addressed. Tuning doesn't make oil leave at 65mi/qt. Now months and miles later there is need to rebuild pretty much the entire short block with new parts and a majorly awesome cool project that is put on hold. I'm not saying Quirt is totally innocent, but don't make the whole engine disaster out to be his fault. Yes, it was his booboo that made the problem, but it didn't need to do this much damage. If you had found the issue sooner and he didn't take care of it right away I would think less of him. As of now, I'm just kind of bummed out about the whole thing. Now the coolest subie project on the planet and the most well known subie engine builder both have issues with each other and the community is starting to take sides, which unfortunatly for Quirt..won't work in his favor no matter what. Bruce, I respect you fully and I'm sorry you got jammed up in your project. Sometimes things like this just happen, and you need to make the best of this somehow. I'm sure Quirt knows he screwed up by not checking the pistons before install, but now he's in a corner and doesn't have anywhere to go. Take it easy and maybe you guys can figure something out.

01-31-2006, 01:45 PM	#36
Stee Spec C Club Car: 2008 Fitrari Red Fav Mod: Getting 40mpg Location: North Jersey Posts: 1,537 Join Date: Jan 2004 Trader Rating: (8)	Cliff Notes: >Stick with what the factory offered you if you want to avoid headaches such as these.< With that said, I feel for you Bruce- I know the effort you have been putting into your STi and it really is a letdown that something as major as an engine failure would have to come your way, especially after the fact that the reason people buy modified blocks is to avoid the same thing your going through. I'm fully supportive of people trying to explore new horizons with automobile modifications and performance but taking it levels such as Bruce will continue to persuade me to 'keep it simple, but keep it smart'.

01-31-2006, 01:46 PM	#37
*Insane06STi* Nanned ® Location: Where the left lane is th Posts: 17,349 Join Date: Oct 2005 Trader Rating: (9)	Sorry about that Bruce, I hope everything works out. And as for Crawford? How many members in IWSTI? NABISCO? I-club? Cluwrx? They better step up and change their customer service skills!

01-31-2006, 01:48 PM	#38
boostedrex05 Spec C Club Car: Gt35R STi Fav Mod: JrTuned 470whp pump/meth 3340lbs with driver Location: 11.33@126 93/meth 1.6 60f Posts: 1,242 Join Date: Dec 2005 Trader Rating: (1)	so whats a good block to get them is the r4 block worth it or will that blow up 2

01-31-2006, 01:54 PM	#39
nandanrp Indiatr0n in yo IWDPL Car: 05FTW OBP STi Fav Mod: Brum Brum Location: downtown Chicago Posts: 48,830 Join Date: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (11)	Crawford's got a nice curly mullet there.

01-31-2006, 01:54 PM	#40
styx Junior STI Driver Car: Cars and Airplanes Location: Fort Worth, Tx Posts: 185 Join Date: Apr 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	I guess you did not receive the memo about quality control. I will foward it on to you again.... Best of luck getting this fixed.

01-31-2006, 01:55 PM	#41
jsh139 How YOU Doin? Car: 2006 Audi S4 Fav Mod: OMGHI2U! Location: Philly 'burbs Posts: 7,719 Join Date: Apr 2004 Trader Rating: (8)	Oh, Jesus, you have to be kidding me?! They told him to sit on it, and after he took their advice then they told him, "You should have brought this to our attention sooner." ??????????????

01-31-2006, 01:58 PM	#42
813_05_STi Professional STI Driver Car: 2005 STi Fav Mod: Driver Location: Tampa Posts: 415 Join Date: Oct 2005 Trader Rating: (7)	Crawford just lost my buisness, I will be shopping elsewhere for my build. Good luck with your new set up bruce..