[Christian.]

Here are the links if you are interested
http://cobbtuning.com/sti/engine-ass...er.html#stage1
&
http://cobbtuning.com/sti/engine-assembled-pro.html

I will let you know as soon as we have the other components (heads and camshafts) finished.

Take care,
Christian.

[normansti]

yea already seen it. I would do it if I had the money but I'm broke.

[VSGTS14]

how about sti front and rear endlinks! i've been waiting.

[Nixlimited]

I wonder if all of these companies offering shortblocks will start to drive the price down a bit...

My count now is: Crawford, Axis, Gruppe-S, and Cobb

[jgheels2003]

Originally Posted by Nixlimited

I wonder if all of these companies offering shortblocks will start to drive the price down a bit...

My count now is: Crawford, Axis, Gruppe-S, and Cobb

That would be nice. Give people a reason for choosing one over another perhaps....

[Flycaster]

Yep, that'd be nice but I really don't think it'll happen. If you run the numbers on the indivdual parts and then add in the labor costs you'll see that there isn't a whole lot of profit in these blocks, even with volume purchase discounts.

For example, a "stage 1" short block (forged pistons only) will run them about $2,000 in parts only. Figure a little under an hour to swap the pistons (you don't have to split the case). They sell them for, what, $2,300? That's pretty thin as it is, especially since there isn't much of a market for the OEM piston set.

[TheMadScientist]

Originally Posted by Flycaster

Yep, that'd be nice but I really don't think it'll happen. If you run the numbers on the indivdual parts and then add in the labor costs you'll see that there isn't a whole lot of profit in these blocks, even with volume purchase discounts.

For example, a "stage 1" short block (forged pistons only) will run them about $2,000 in parts only. Figure a little under an hour to swap the pistons (you don't have to split the case). They sell them for, what, $2,300? That's pretty thin as it is, especially since there isn't much of a market for the OEM piston set.

If you buy a shortblock from one of those builders. You better bet they split the case. If they didn't thier motors would sound like mine. I have heard an Axis and a crawford they don't have anywhere near the piston slap my motor has.
To put pistons in a motor "corectly" you need to hone/machine the cylinder walls. That means everything out of the motor and to do that you need to split the case.

TMS

[eatV8]

Originally Posted by Nixlimited

I wonder if all of these companies offering shortblocks will start to drive the price down a bit...

My count now is: Crawford, Axis, Gruppe-S, and Cobb

You can add Rallispec to them also. I am sure there is more... Don't ESX offer them also?

[Flycaster]

Originally Posted by TheMadScientist

If you buy a shortblock from one of those builders. You better bet they split the case.

While doing a search I just saw this.

TMS, Crawford does NOT split the case for his Stage I motor - nor does any other builder as far as I know. Crawford uses "drop in" pistons set to the factory 99.5mm spec. (with additional clearance for a total of .0035" vs. the factory P-CW clearance of .0005") and calls it good. Given the "A" vs. "B" cylinder differential, this should yield a P-CW clearance of .0030" - .0040". Out of Crawford's mouth, "That is within spec."

When you jump up to a "stage 2" motor, in most cases the increase in price is almost $1,200 - only $600 or so goes for the rod upgrades, and the remainder now pays for the split-case assembly labor with a little more profit.

[TheMadScientist]

Originally Posted by Flycaster

While doing a search I just saw this.

TMS, Crawford does NOT split the case for his Stage I motor - nor does any other builder as far as I know. Crawford uses "drop in" pistons set to the factory 99.5mm spec. (with additional clearance for a total of .0035" vs. the factory P-CW clearance of .0005") and calls it good. Given the "A" vs. "B" cylinder differential, this should yield a P-CW clearance of .0030" - .0040". Out of Crawford's mouth, "That is within spec."

When you jump up to a "stage 2" motor, in most cases the increase in price is almost $1,200 - only $600 or so goes for the rod upgrades, and the remainder now pays for the split-case assembly labor with a little more profit.

I know I won't be buying one of those motors. I have done the "drop in" piston route all ready. NEVER again will I allow pistons to be dropped in without the block being machined for the pistons.

TMS

[Flycaster]

Amen to that...it's truly a half-assed way of building a motor, at least in my opinion.

[TheMadScientist]

Originally Posted by Flycaster

Amen to that...it's truly a half-assed way of building a motor, at least in my opinion.

Well I started with a fresh brand new block. Removed the stock pistions and replaced them with a set a crawford forged ones. The biggest complaint I have is the horendous piston slap, even when the car is hot. I would think that if the clearance was matched for each bore the slap would be much less. I have built many forged piston small block chevy motors. They all slapped at start up for ~15sec, after that you would never know that the motor had forged pistons. That is what I was expecting from my subaru motor. I really think this is cause by the drop in pistons, all the chevy motors were bored to match the pistons.

TMS

[neal0124]

Originally Posted by TheMadScientist

Well I started with a fresh brand new block. Removed the stock pistions and replaced them with a set a crawford forged ones. The biggest complaint I have is the horendous piston slap, even when the car is hot. I would think that if the clearance was matched for each bore the slap would be much less. I have built many forged piston small block chevy motors. They all slapped at start up for ~15sec, after that you would never know that the motor had forged pistons. That is what I was expecting from my subaru motor. I really think this is cause by the drop in pistons, all the chevy motors were bored to match the pistons.

TMS

Did the crawford pistons have the anti-scuff coating on the sides? I heard crawford was installing/selling his pistons without the coating and the piston/cylinder clearance was way to large. You are correct about bore matching, any time you install pistons into a cylinder block you must blueprint the clearances and make sure they are all in spec(how do expect to make any power/keep the correct compression with different piston to bore clearances). Plus, when you install new rings you want a fresh crosshatch on the bore so the rings seat correctly. At least the pistons weren't to large!

[TheMadScientist]

No coatings at all. I am not really worried about this motor. At idle it draws ~19 in/mg wich is pretty good and ~21in/mg on in gear decel. The motor does not eat oil like a 2 stroke either. I really think it is because of the way I broke in the motor. The rings seating was not really a concern of for me as the block was brand new right off the shelf, never been run.
I have been spinning this motor to 7500 on a daily basis and have no problems. I am finally going to spend some money on my fuel system so I can max out my 20G. Hopefully the motor stays in one piece.

TMS

Originally Posted by neal0124

Did the crawford pistons have the anti-scuff coating on the sides? I heard crawford was installing/selling his pistons without the coating and the piston/cylinder clearance was way to large. You are correct about bore matching, any time you install pistons into a cylinder block you must blueprint the clearances and make sure they are all in spec(how do expect to make any power/keep the correct compression with different piston to bore clearances). Plus, when you install new rings you want a fresh crosshatch on the bore so the rings seat correctly. At least the pistons weren't to large!

[Flycaster]

Originally Posted by TheMadScientist

...I really think it is because of the way I broke in the motor...

What did you do, and more importantly, how would you do it differently?