[Flycaster]

Originally Posted by Neanderthal Racing

there's nothing unexpected about it.

I certainly hope not.

[Flycaster]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

...So that should be 8K worthy if that is where the heads are going. I was just curious because I've seen some really high relines advertised for blocks and heads. Some as high as 10.5K...

Again, this is being debated as we speak by some very sharp guys over on NASIOC. Lots of them claim to be building blocks that can spin up there, but so far, damn few of these motors have lived long. 7-7.5K is a done deal, however.

Here's a thread for you: Anyone successfully spinning their built engine to 8K? - Built Motor Discussion - NASIOC

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by Flycaster

Again, this is being debated as we speak by some very sharp guys over on NASIOC. Lots of them claim to be building blocks that can spin up there, but so far, damn few of these motors have lived long. 7-7.5K is a done deal, however.

Here's a thread for you: Anyone successfully spinning their built engine to 8K? - Built Motor Discussion - NASIOC

Very interesting read. It seems our 2.5L shortblocks don't like going much beyond 7Krpm. I didn't realize it was such an issue. So really, it's 7250 - 7500 at the most unless you get some really light pistons made of unobtanium. I guess we just aren't destined for the dizzying heights of the rotaries and S2000s.

[Flycaster]

It's difficult to really pin down, but the issue certainly revolves around rod bearing lubrication problems. Whether it's inadequate oil pressures, bearing speeds, pick-up problems, oil cavitation issues...I dunno. This is rocket science stuff to me, so I just sit back, learn, and applaud those brave souls out there who keep pushing the limits.

All you can say for sure is if you get a well built motor and stick to a 7.5K soft redline, you're golden. Much above that, they're still working on it.

[modaddict]

Originally Posted by metalheadinky

I have been looking into buying a short block that will be able to withstand 500+ horsepower at the wheels. I have been looking into amr, axis, crawford, cobb, cosworth, and ar fab. I figure it will cost around $9k for a really good short block and probably another $6k for heads and cams. Has anyone had any business with these engine builders? I would like to find a 2.8L if their is such a sti engine.

There has been alot of good information give to you in this thread. And i do think you're on target for the amount of money that reliable HP will cost you.

As it's said, forget the 9k redline. our little subaru's weren't made for running 9k. 8k? Sure. But 9k is another realm. The big issue is oiling to the rods at extended high rpms. The OEM crank isn't the most superior at doing this and leaves a good bit to be desired. Can it be done on an OEM crank? yes. Can the oiling system be improved with an aftermarket crank? absofriggenlutely. This is where a forged or billet crank is best.

I'll give you a couple links if you want a stroker motor. these guys are doing 8200 at the track:

Crawford Performance

Crawford Performance

They also make a s6 which is a 2.7l, but they want it to be run on 100octane at a minimum, all the time.

good luck in which ever path you choose. Sounds something NASTY!

[Flycaster]

Originally Posted by modaddict

..This is where a forged or billet crank is best.

Isn't the OEM crank already forged? Also, do you know whether Crawfords "billet crank" rod journals are the same diameter as the OEM crank?

[Phame]

Originally Posted by Neanderthal Racing

i recommend that you do not go crazy on headwork for a dd. in fact, you do not need new heads at all. save your money. it is easy to go overboard on porting.

just upgrade the springs and retainers, do a good cleanup on your stock heads with a stg1 p&p. add a set of stg 2 or 3 kelford/cosworth cams (cosworth are kelfords) and youre in business.

I would listen to him if I were you.

[modaddict]

Originally Posted by Flycaster

Isn't the OEM crank already forged? Also, do you know whether Crawfords "billet crank" rod journals are the same diameter as the OEM crank?

yes it is forged. And I should have clarified that having an aftermarket forged crank, such as the Cobb Tuner series, or some of the other forged ones. They (all?) will have a redesigned oiling system.

You can get an aftermarket forged crank in the 1100-2k range, depending on if it's made here, or in china.

The billet ones are a whole new level/price.

I do believe (not 100%, but almost) that they are stock bearing diameters in the Crawford billet cranks. they like to run OEM bearings, everywhere. Same with OEM headgaskets, and every other gasket.

[fq06]

Cosworth builds F1 motors, enough said.

[WRBSTI]

I would have to say Ron at AXIX Racing would get my vote. I can't describe his customer service and he keeps you up to date on everything. I will go with him for any needs, whether its heads, or a 2.5 for my 03 wagon.

[wayno]

i'm going with ron at axis getting my stuff next week pis,rods crank..... and so on! great guy to talk to ,just tell him your hp goals and he'll tell you what need to buy. i'm doing the machine work locally. he saved me alot of money for a way better motor.iv'e done 6 months of research and he came to the top of my list!!! his heads flow more than cosworth uses the same bearings and cams as cosworth and better rods for alot less!!

[JDM-STI]

Originally Posted by Neanderthal Racing

i recommend that you do not go crazy on headwork for a dd. in fact, you do not need new heads at all. save your money. it is easy to go overboard on porting.

just upgrade the springs and retainers, do a good cleanup on your stock heads with a stg1 p&p. add a set of stg 2 or 3 kelford/cosworth cams (cosworth are kelfords) and youre in business.

Exactly. This what Doug at TopSpeed did when he built my motor. He calls it "tickling the heads". Between that and the upgraded valvetrain and cosworth stage 2 cams, I couldn't be happier. The TopSpeed RR1 long block gets my vote.

[caballero_sti]

Originally Posted by Neanderthal Racing

i recommend that you do not go crazy on headwork for a dd. in fact, you do not need new heads at all. save your money. it is easy to go overboard on porting.

just upgrade the springs and retainers, do a good cleanup on your stock heads with a stg1 p&p. add a set of stg 2 or 3 kelford/cosworth cams (cosworth are kelfords) and youre in business.

So you can use the higher cams on the stock vale, stock size? by just upgrade springs and retainers? ej257 sti avcs heads?

Thanks

[Neanderthal Racing]

Originally Posted by caballero_sti

So you can use the higher cams on the stock vale, stock size? by just upgrade springs and retainers? ej257 sti avcs heads?

roger that.
(if not, i'm fckd (isfh)

[TopSpeed]

Originally Posted by metalheadinky

I have been looking into buying a short block that will be able to withstand 500+ horsepower at the wheels. I have been looking into amr, axis, crawford, cobb, cosworth, and ar fab. I figure it will cost around $9k for a really good short block and probably another $6k for heads and cams. Has anyone had any business with these engine builders? I would like to find a 2.8L if their is such a sti engine.

Give us a call. I'd be happy to set you up a quote right for you.

Let me know!

Tray M
TopSpeed Inc.
866-94SPEED

Originally Posted by JDM-STI

Exactly. This what Doug at TopSpeed did when he built my motor. He calls it "tickling the heads". Between that and the upgraded valvetrain and cosworth stage 2 cams, I couldn't be happier. The TopSpeed RR1 long block gets my vote.