[BoostJunkie]

I agree with Eric to some extent, but on street tires with proper ducting I can't imagine your pads are operating constantly above 1100 degrees (the top of the RS19's efficiency range). Dan's idea seems more likely. I would ditch the blues in the rear and go with a matching set of yellows. Or if you prefer to try a different pad, the Performance Friction 01's are a great pad, and although they are a lot harder on rotors than the yellows they can handle more heat. If you go this route, run the 01's up front and either 01's or 97's in the rear.

[ESmooth]

Originally Posted by abdi

Do stoptech and Racing brake use the same rotor manufacture?

Not by any means. Our rotors are made in Italy by a very highly regarged foundry to our very specific specifications.

FWIW Dan(s), The DS3000 dont have that high of a heat range themselves and arent that hard to overheat either. Hawk Blues actally have a lot of bite for what they are so I woudlnt put too much in them being the cause of the issue out back. From a cost perspective, the PFC01s which are normally quite expensive are very affordable for the stock STi calipers so I would make that my recommendation. DTC70 are also great pads but will cost up to $50 more or so on STi calipers. On our StopTech ST40 calipers, the DTC70 are about $50 cheaper than the PFC01 so go figure. As to the PFC01s being more abraisive, that is true when they are cold, but they wont be anywhere close to the abraisiveness of the Hwk blues which are some of the most abraisive pads out there, not to mention there corrosive dust that can stain wheels and paint. When they are at their operating temperatures they really arent that tough on rotors. Last year the LG Motorsports World Challenge Corvette ran the whole season on PFC01 and PFC03 pads and only went through 2 sets of rotors. That includes all of their testing, practice, qualifying and racing. They won 2 races and finished second overall in the series.

[LOLSTi]

good thread

[BoostJunkie]

Originally Posted by ESmooth

Not by any means. Our rotors are made in Italy by a very highly regarged foundry to our very specific specifications.

FWIW Dan(s), The DS3000 dont have that high of a heat range themselves and arent that hard to overheat either. Hawk Blues actally have a lot of bite for what they are so I woudlnt put too much in them being the cause of the issue out back. From a cost perspective, the PFC01s which are normally quite expensive are very affordable for the stock STi calipers so I would make that my recommendation. DTC70 are also great pads but will cost up to $50 more or so on STi calipers. On our StopTech ST40 calipers, the DTC70 are about $50 cheaper than the PFC01 so go figure. As to the PFC01s being more abraisive, that is true when they are cold, but they wont be anywhere close to the abraisiveness of the Hwk blues which are some of the most abraisive pads out there, not to mention there corrosive dust that can stain wheels and paint. When they are at their operating temperatures they really arent that tough on rotors. Last year the LG Motorsports World Challenge Corvette ran the whole season on PFC01 and PFC03 pads and only went through 2 sets of rotors. That includes all of their testing, practice, qualifying and racing. They won 2 races and finished second overall in the series.

I definitely agree about the PFC01's not being too hard on rotors, but they definitely are in comparison to the Pagid Yellows. The RS19/29 was basically designed to give up a little bit of bite in the name of extending pad/rotor life. So basically they are great for endurance racing and the track day enthusiast who is concerned with wear, but there are definitely pads out there that have better bite but are a bit harder on rotors and wear more quickly themselves. That being said, I am running RS19's right now and when they wear out (which will be soon) I'm going to give PFC01's a try.

[ace996]

Prior to spending thousands on a BBK, I"d mount a water-injection kit with a dual-nozzle spray system to spray a fine mist inside my brake duct hoses. How the spray would be triggered is someone else's problem...I'm just the "big-ideas" guy...not the details guy.

Be good,
TomK

[mxpop]

Hey Ruski,

I only get 1 day out of a set of pads at Laguna Seca (Buttonwillow too) even tho my tires looked almost new at the end of the day. At some tracks, I can get 2 days plus a little street driving thrown in. Either I am overly tolerant of my brake wear or you are having unrealistic expectations from your brakes. Have you tried any heat paint to see what temps you are seeing? I now have ducting and will be at Buttonwillow twice next month so I will see how much it helps.

BTW, I would listen to Esmooth, he knows his stuff and I would try what he suggests if I were you.

BTW2, What times did you post at Laguna? ...at other tracks? If you are cranking out some fast times then congrats on your driving and welcome to the club of quikly used up parts! If you are slow, then your brake problems are your fault!

My last time at Laguna, I had brake issues starting with my warm up session on the stock tires and then really killed them when I put my Hoosiers on and dropped my lap times (the rotors looked smeared and were throw aways after 1 day). Esmooth can prob explain how dropping just a few seconds per lap can have a huge impact on the brake's performance and life, esp on a heavy car like ours. He said that a few months ago at SoWS CCW he watched my front rotors glow bright red (1700+ degrees?) going into turn 1, and that was when they felt good! I can only imaging what they look like when they are dying.

If I sound like I'm kissing up to Esmooth, it's because I am! I will really be kissing up to him for a smokin' deal if I cant get my current set up working more consistently. Props too for him staying calm when he rode shotgun with me at Horse Thief last month! (I have made 3 grown men vomit after rides with me but Erik was able to keep his lunch down...)

Who luvs ya Erik? MXPOP does.....

BTW, anybody ever hear of installing high press fans in the brake duct lines? Where to get them? (3 inch hose) Install recomendations?

[ace996]

Originally Posted by mxpop

BTW, anybody ever hear of installing high press fans in the brake duct lines? Where to get them? (3 inch hose) Install recomendations?

The vette and GTO guys have used these when needed. I'll search for a good link...


...found one...
http://www.lightningbrakeandperforma...cts.asp?cat=77

and another... http://www.prosystembrakes.com/catalogpg022.htm


Be good,
TomK

[Turninconcepts.com]

Originally Posted by mxpop

BTW, anybody ever hear of installing high press fans in the brake duct lines? Where to get them? (3 inch hose) Install recomendations?

A number of people have installed barrel fans to get more air in at lower speeds. I know it's not brake related, but we've used one on Tony's car to push cool outside air into the airbox to keep MAF temps down. This really helps on hot days when you're waiting in line to get on the track.

Pegasus auto racing has a variety to choose from.

[ruski]

Originally Posted by mxpop

Hey Ruski,

BTW2, What times did you post at Laguna? ...at other tracks? If you are cranking out some fast times then congrats on your driving and welcome to the club of quikly used up parts! If you are slow, then your brake problems are your fault!

I don't know what my lap times are. At this point I should probably invest in a transponder. At Thunderhill I am in between 2:06 and 2:09 on street tires, or faster. Wednesday at Laguna was only my first day there, so I was still learning/trying different things. The only two cars/drivers that "sort-of" keep up with me were an Arial Atom and a Porsche Carrera 4s with R-comp tires. The Carrera could accelerate faster than I could, but I would close in/pull away under braking, in the turn, and corner exit. I don't think I was passed a single time the entire day, other than my first session where I focused on the line.

I might be quick, but I still have lots to learn. I just want to get the braking under control as I just can't afford to go though pads every two events.

It sounds like the PFC01s are going to be the next choice to go with. What about using PFC05s in the rear, get a little more torque on the rear wheels to take even a little load off of the fronts?

[BoostJunkie]

I wouldn't use a more aggressive compound in the rear than the front, it will screw up your brake bias. Some people use a slightly less aggressive compound in the rear, like the 97, but I have had very good results using the same compound all around. I'd just go with the 01s at all 4 corners instead of trying to mix and match.

[ruski]

Originally Posted by BoostJunkie

I wouldn't use a more aggressive compound in the rear than the front, it will screw up your brake bias. Some people use a slightly less aggressive compound in the rear, like the 97, but I have had very good results using the same compound all around. I'd just go with the 01s at all 4 corners instead of trying to mix and match.

Well that is what I am considering, giving the car more rear bias. I just don't want to overdue it with the rears. Though, chances are the only way I am going to figure it out is to buy the pads and try it.

[mxpop]

I cant help you with pad choice but Esmooth can. I know that Stoptech spends a lot of time and effort on brake balance so be careful not to upset a good balance just because of a wear issue. Tracking/racing is expensive, esp in a high HP and heavy car like STIs. I dont like wasting $ but I want to go as fast as I can and using up brakes, tires, underwear, etc is just part of the game.

You really need to get a method to time yourself otherwise any testing or mods will be pointless, esp if you are trying to go faster each time. A simple stopwatch with velcro etc will get you a good idea. Just hit the lap button on a simple spot on the track, usually the start/finish line. Strangely, my best times dont feel fast, just smooth and fluid with minimal tire sqeal and no incidents etc. The laps that FEEL fastest are usually not my best ones. Besides, if you are in fact one of the faster guys then you might as well get the bragging rites that go along with it!

I know several skilled drivers getting into Miatas. I used to ridicule them but if some fast guys are in them then you can really have some good battles that show skills over $ invested. Overall, I may even save $ getting a Miata as a second car because I wont be using up my STI all day if I switch off between them.

Did you happen to see any one elses times from guys that were similar? Do you think you were closest to 1:55? 1:50? 1:45? 1:40? 1:35? 1:30?

[Puckshaw]

Well as far as going with a more aggressive pad in the rear, I'll be giving this a shot at my next event (not by choice). I had ordered a set of PF97s for all 4 corners and only received the fronts. Turns out PF discontinued the 97 rears for our cars claiming there wasn't enough bite and they recommended the 01s. So I'll be running 97 fronts and 01 rears at my next event (used 97 fronts and stock rears at the last event). We'll see how it goes...

[ruski]

No I didn't get anyone elses times who were similar.

-I did about 21miles a session.
-Each session was about 20min, I give it 18 with getting on and off the track.
-The fist lap was an all yellow warm up lap.
-Cool down was at least half a lap and I went just fast enough to where I didn't have to brake for turns.
-Based on mileage and time I did about 9.2 laps per session.


On that math alone I averaged 1min 57sec per session. Maybe that puts the fast lap at 1min 45sec, MAYBE 1min 40sec. Are those times any good?

*This could be accurate or it could be way off, HAHA.

[ruski]

Originally Posted by Puckshaw

Well as far as going with a more aggressive pad in the rear, I'll be giving this a shot at my next event (not by choice). I had ordered a set of PF97s for all 4 corners and only received the fronts. Turns out PF discontinued the 97 rears for our cars claiming there wasn't enough bite and they recommended the 01s. So I'll be running 97 fronts and 01 rears at my next event (used 97 fronts and stock rears at the last event). We'll see how it goes...

Hmmm, that is definitely in support me me trying the 05s in the rear.