[Digitalfiend]

I have a quick question. I've recently noticed that while cruising at 40-50km/h in 3rd/4th, I sometimes hear what sounds like the rear brakes squeaking. The squeaking seems to oscillate with the rotation of the tires, so it goes squeak-squeak-squeak. It seems to only be noticeable while driving beside fences or cars etc. I don't even know if this issue is related to the brakes or not.

The strange part is, this squeaking doesn't seem to start until after some reasonably hard driving. Since it is Canada Day and no one is on the roads, I took the car out for a fun drive. I noticed the squeaking on the way home. This sound has been occurring for about 2 months now but it appears to be very random. The only way I can seemingly reproduce it is to really get on it (acceleration and cornering) and then cruise along in 4th @ 40-50km/h. The squeak gets a bit louder if I engine brake but lightly applying the throttle only diminishes the squeaking slightly. Once I get up to 60km/h the sound is completely gone (as far as I can tell.)

If I get on the brakes hard, it seems to help the issue for a bit. Another strange thing is that when I drive the car the following day, it won't make the noise. As long as I don't really get on it (top out 4th lets say), the car is fine.

The car drives perfectly and doesn't seem to have any problems (no LSD binding, strut clunks, no gear grinding etc.) Personally, I don't think it is anything more than an annoyance, but does anyone have any ideas of what it might be? All thoughts are welcome...

Thanks in advance.

[Ken]

I'm starting to have that today. It's been day 3 of hot weather, going about 70km/h I start to get this sqeaking noise, like a cheap Dodge. I'm thinking one of the belts or something. RPM doesn't seem to be a factor but speed is???

[Digitalfiend]

It's definitely not a belt for me because of two things. First, I hear it coming from the left rear and front right. Secondly, the sound goes away immediately, even with the lightest of brake pressure (i.e. not enough to slow the car but enough to make contact with the rotors.)

In my case, it is definitely related to the temperature of the pads & rotors as it doesn't start doing it until I've been on the brakes or turning hard.

[Xman]

Sounds like it could be wheelbearings. Sometimes they don't start squeaking until the grease gets hot and always goes away when you use the brakes (at least until the squeaking goes to a constant grinding, then it's a bit late).

How many miles do you have??? The grit from Ontario winters speeds up the wear process as does hard cornering. It was pretty common for Imprezas that were driven year round in Buffalo and autocrossed all summer to need bearings every other year.

I hope that's not actually what it is because they are expensive, but be sure to check out those bearings although it might be too soon to detect without pulling everything apart.

[Digitalfiend]

Originally Posted by Xman

Sounds like it could be wheelbearings. Sometimes they don't start squeaking until the grease gets hot and always goes away when you use the brakes (at least until the squeaking goes to a constant grinding, then it's a bit late).

How many miles do you have??? The grit from Ontario winters speeds up the wear process as does hard cornering. It was pretty common for Imprezas that were driven year round in Buffalo and autocrossed all summer to need bearings every other year.

I hope that's not actually what it is because they are expensive, but be sure to check out those bearings although it might be too soon to detect without pulling everything apart.

Good information. I only have 19,000km on my car, though it has seen two autox days and one track day. It has only been launched about 8-10 times, at the most, and all those launches were done using the clutch-slip method (no clutch dumps.) It has never been driven in the winter.

The strange part is that the squeaking doesn't happen when it is cooler out, unless I've been really hard on the brakes. Sometimes I don't get the squeaking at all, when I've been driving normally. It also sounds like it comes from both sides...possibly the front right and the rear left.

So if it is the wheel bearings, how do I diagnose this? Any suggestions? Should I take it in to my dealer for warranty service? I don't have a problem paying for it due to my autox/track events but it could possibly be a defect. It seems strange that bearings would go so quickly...I'm really hoping it is just a brake thing.

[Xman]

it really seems strange for bearings, but it has happened before.

Bearings are really difficult to diagnose until you take them apart and inspect, but everything you describe is classic wheelbearing noise except for the miles and lack of winters.

Unless you have someone with a knowledgeable eart to help you you probably should take it in an put your warranty to work for you. It could just be a build up of brake dust on the slider pins or something else minor. The hard part will be replicating the noise for the tech to hear.

[Digitalfiend]

The only strange part about it being a bearing is that the squeaking doesn't occur while turning and I always thought that turning makes a failing bearing scream like a little girl. When it is cool out, I can't seem to reproduce it either, regardless of how hard I drive.

One other question, would using wheel cleaners, like Eagle 1 All-Wheel Cleaner, possibly cause a problem with the wheel hub...possibly cause a seal to deteriorate etc? Is that even possible?

I must admit, I really wish I had gotten into cars earlier in my life. If I had the tools and was more comfortable working with cars, I would gladly spend a day taking my calipers and wheel hub assembly apart. I love trying to fix things. But since I don't have the tools or experience, I guess I'll have take it to the dealership. At least I trust my mechanic...and they let me watch!

Thanks again for the info...

Edit: After checking some prices, it looks like it might cost between $50-$70usd to replace the bearing, plus $10-$20 for additional parts like seals etc.

[pantag]

Digitalfiend, I would recommend to take it to the dealer, tell him exactly what you hear and what you might think it is and see what he says. You have nothing to loose. Worst case scenario is dealer finds out you abused the car a little bit and you have to pay parts and labor. But at least you will know what is wrong.

[Digitalfiend]

Originally Posted by pantag

Digitalfiend, I would recommend to take it to the dealer, tell him exactly what you hear and what you might think it is and see what he says. You have nothing to loose. Worst case scenario is dealer finds out you abused the car a little bit and you have to pay parts and labor. But at least you will know what is wrong.

The dealer doesn't need to find out that I "abused" my car. I talk to the service manager and my mechanic about autox/track stuff all the time. They've even seen some videos of me on the track. Smart move or not...they already know. (They don't really care either. )

Either way, considering the autox/track stuff that I have done, I would be very disappointed to see a wheel bearing fail that quickly. The car hasn't seen hardly any "abuse". Just look at Xmans avatar, his bearings are fine; I haven't even done that.

[Xman]

my donuts are bad for bearings

the cost of parts for bearing replacement is not the issue, it's the labor. Typical labor costs for bearing replacement is around US$400 because of all the time and special tools needed to press the inner and outer races on and off the spindle and nuckle pieces. Also the Subaru bearings tend to squeal loudest when unloaded (as you describe driving straight, steady state) when you brake or turn and load the bearing the squeal usually goes away. At least until they are so destroyed that they tend to grind instead of squeal. More likely than not you have some time to deal with this issue, it's not likely to cause the wheel to come off for quite some time.

One thing that you can do is check for play in the bearing by jacking up the car, grasping the top and bottom of the tire and see if the top of the wheel moves in and out more than a couple of mm

Since you really like to push your car hard you might consider upgrading the grease in the bearings whenever you do replace them. Here is a link to a thread that BigSkyWRX quotes Gary Sheehan's comments about the grease upgrade. FYI, WRX bearings are identical to STi (pre-2005).
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...=wheel+bearing

Good luck.

(oh and who says my bearings aren't going bad yet I'm prepared to change them very soon. I have over 29k miles and more autoX runs than I can count and a couple of track days as well.)

[Digitalfiend]

Well, I just went out for a drive to grab some dinner and groceries and figured I would do an experiment. I avoided cornering or accelerating overly hard and after 50km of driving, no squeak. It was about 24C out.

The one thing I am concerned about that I want to take the car in for is a shallow, but not-so-normal, groove in my front right rotor. I only recently noticed it, so I don't think it has been there for that long (i.e. I don't think it is related to my squeaking.)

Either way, I think I'll take your suggestion, call the dealership and at least have them look at the rotor and note the squeaking. At least this way they will have a record of the problem.

[Digitalfiend]

OK Part 2:

Went out again to go run an errand but this time I drove the car much harder. I braked hard for corners, got on the highway and took it to 160km/h on this nice long straight entrance ramp, went to my nice back road route and did a few hard corners. Overall about 30km of fun...

On the way back I listened very carefully and heard no squeaks...nothing...nadda. But, once again, the temperature outside was a cool 22C and dry (no humidity). Ugh. This is going to drive me nuts. I'm not sure I really want the dealership pulling all my hubs apart just to possibly find a problem; knowing my luck I'd end up not having a bearing problem and then end up with one due to the diagnostic check.

You would think that if it was squeaking due to a bearing issue that it would happen everytime I drive, at some point, especially after heating up the wheels.

[Singletrack]

I'm having this same issue and trying to diagnose it also. My brake pads are pretty worn so I was "theorizing" that maybe the wear clip was rubbing. It appears to have some distance between it and the rotor however, but perhaps with thermal expansion?

But after reading this thread I wonder if it is in fact the bearing. It is difficult to diagnose and doesn't begin until about 10 mins of driving. It also comes and goes. It is especially hard to diagnose because my exhaust is so loud - jersey barriers help.

I'll check for play and keep an eye on it; I'm going to have the dealer do some of the 30k service so I'll have them check it out as well.

I've hit a couple of terrible potholes in Pittsburgh so it wouldn't surprise me if one of the bearings is on its way out.

[Digitalfiend]

I'm really starting to believe that it isn't a bearing issue for me. About 3 days ago I scrubbed the rotors down and thoroughly washed the calipers, but without using any wheel-cleaner type product. After a couple hard drives I couldn't reproduce the sound. I've driven another 300km since the 30th and the sound hasn't come back.

I'm starting to wonder if it might have to do with braking/driving hard. Perhaps there is build up on the rotor and then when I'm cooling things down, it starts to "rub" against the pads, causing that squeak. The squeak sounds *exactly* like what my brakes sound like the first time I use them. The only problem with that theory is that I drove the car very hard on the 30th and couldn't get any squeaking...but it was also fairly cool out.

Ah well, I'm definitely going to keep an eye out but I really don't think it is bearing related. I went to the in-laws boat on the weekend and averaged about 120km/h over 100km. When I pulled into the marina I didn't hear any squeaking...go figure.

I do appreciate all the advice though. This is still the best Subie forum out there.

[STirish]

Originally Posted by Digitalfiend

I'm really starting to believe that it isn't a bearing issue for me. About 3 days ago I scrubbed the rotors down and thoroughly washed the calipers, but without using any wheel-cleaner type product. After a couple hard drives I couldn't reproduce the sound. I've driven another 300km since the 30th and the sound hasn't come back.

I'm starting to wonder if it might have to do with braking/driving hard. Perhaps there is build up on the rotor and then when I'm cooling things down, it starts to "rub" against the pads, causing that squeak. The squeak sounds *exactly* like what my brakes sound like the first time I use them. The only problem with that theory is that I drove the car very hard on the 30th and couldn't get any squeaking...but it was also fairly cool out.

Ah well, I'm definitely going to keep an eye out but I really don't think it is bearing related. I went to the in-laws boat on the weekend and averaged about 120km/h over 100km. When I pulled into the marina I didn't hear any squeaking...go figure.

I do appreciate all the advice though. This is still the best Subie forum out there.

I'm starting to have the same squeaking issue's with my right front, but only exhibits the squeaking behavior after hard driving on a warm to hot day. It really does sound like it is a dirty caliper. Sometime this week all my calipers are going to get disassembled and cleaned out. I also notice my pad squeak when they shift from front to back or back to front. Another reason why I think the squeaking is caused by a buildup of brake dust.

I'll report back to see if that cures the squeak that we seem to have.

I'm starting to have the same squeaking issue's with my right front, but only exhibits the squeaking behavior after hard driving on a warm to hot day. The squeaking you described is exactly what I have noticed. It really does sound like it is a dirty caliper. Sometime this week all my calipers are going to get disassembled and cleaned out. I also noticed my pad squeak when they shift from front to back or back to front. Another reason why I think the squeaking is caused by a buildup of brake dust. The squeaking started after a few auto-x's where hard breaking was required at the end of the coarse.

Thought about taking the car to the dealer, but what do you tell them. "Drive my sports car hard for xxmiles and it *should* squeak". Hehe, can you imagine what that Tech will be doing to your car Am I the only one who wants to be the one to damage my own car. For some reason it’s not as bad if you are the one pushing the car hard. Lol, is this automotive jealousy!?

I'll report back to see if a cleaning on my part also cures the squeak that we seem to have.

Rob