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2008 STi - Broken welds + hatch damper (metal on metal squeak)... *RESOLVED[?]*

32K views 118 replies 28 participants last post by  Deek 
#1 · (Edited)
Update 2011.09.16: At this point I'm quite comfortable with saying that this issue was definitely related to the passenger side hatch damper. The issue persisted after spot welds were reinforced, and ceased after the dampers were replaced.

I am now also keeping this updated in my blog as well @ 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STi Hatch - "theNoise" (Broken welds = Squeak)

Car: 2008 Impreza WRX STi

Problem: Broken welds on roof support near hatch opening causing metal on metal squeaking over bumps or in turns.
Update 2011.08.27; Could this have been misdiagnosed??? <- Click for more information.

Reason denied: Originally Subaru denied claim and voided warranty stating that installation of stiffer springs caused the weld to break.
Update 2011.07.21; SOA called, they're fixing under waranty, *but*... <- Click for more information.

Summary: I installed springs on my car (320lb rates, front & rear) on 2010.09.18. I have proof of invoice and tracking information via FedEx that shows I didn't have these springs in my possession until 2011.09.16. According to the dealer's service records, I first reported this problem to them on 2010.09.08. This means that it had already been occurring and I called them to set up an appointment for them to look at it. Those notes don't go into the system until the dealer takes possession of the car, at least for my dealer.

I went to the dealer today and had them print my service records. There is a 'customer complaint' on there dated 2010.09.08 that states the following;

Complaint: Customer states that the hatch back or something will creak in the rear when driving over a rough road please check and advise...

Cause: Tech traced and found there was a rattle coming from the latch on the rear hatch back door.

Correction: Tech greased the latch and test drove to verify proper operation.
On 2010.10.08 I brought it in because the brakes were squealing, at which time the service manager noticed the hatch squeak. I told him how I've already brought it in for that and they claim they fixed it by re-greasing the latch. He said to have it looked at again at the next service.

On 2011.02.03 I brought it in for service and this is what they have noted regarding the squeak.

Complaint: Customer states that the rear hatch is squeaking please check and advise...

Cause: Tech test drove the vehicle and found the rear mat rubbing on the cargo cover and tech also found the latch in need of lubrication.

Correction: Tech completed the lubrication on the rear hatch latch and also moved the rear cargo mat from the cargo shade and test drove to verify no squeaking from the rear at this time.
On 2011.02.07 I brought it in for the squeak again, and here are the notes.

Complaint: Customer states that there is a squeaking noise coming fromt he rear hatch when driving over bumps please check and advise...

Cause: Tech test drove the vehicle and was not able to duplicate the customer's concern at this time.

Correction: No repairs made at this time.
On 2011.05.13 I brought it in for maintenance and the following was noted regarding the squeak.

Complaint: Customer states there is a metal on metal noise coming from the right rear please check and advise.

Cause: Tech found the noise coming from the drivers rear quarter panel area more time is needed to complete diag.

Correction: Customer is advised and will return at a later date.
I brought it back on 2011.05.18 and here are the notes.

Complaint: Customer states there is a squeak coming from the rear top of the vehicle when going over bumps advise...

Cause: Tech found the creek coming from the rear roof supports. Possible weld broken.

Correction: Subaru has been contacted and factory engineer will come out to inspect vehicle at customer convenience. Customer will be contacted when this is possible.
I did go back again near the end of may, so I'll need to go back and get that service record for the details... but in short the rep didn't even come look at the vehicle, he just told the service manager to deny the claim and void the warranty stating that my stiffened springs caused the issue, which is clearly not the case.

I just gathered the documents I think I'll need, and I'm stopping by the dealer tomorrow to talk to the service manager. I'll try to keep this updated.
 
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#89 · (Edited)
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

Today Tom and I went for another drive after the car had some time to 'cool off' in my garage overnight. I drove over "the bump" that was 'featured' in the last 30~ seconds of the video clip and didn't get a squeak.

We drove to Lowes to pick up some of this stuff to put on the rear plastics when we reinstall them.


We hit "the bump" again on the way and we didn't get a squeak, which is good. :)

I'm going to leave the panels and dampers off and bring our findings to the dealer service manager on Monday. If this turns out to be the root cause and we were able to properly diagnose it by thinking out of the box, as opposed to blindly throwing parts and invasive repairs at it... I'm going to be a little less than pleased and feel that Subaru should reimburse me (see; do something to restore my customer loyalty and faith) somehow. I don't know what or how, but... something. Do you guys think that's unrealistic? :confused:
 
#93 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

I'm going to leave the panels and dampers off and bring our findings to the dealer service manager on Monday. If this turns out to be the root cause and we were able to properly diagnose it by thinking out of the box, as opposed to blindly throwing parts and invasive repairs at it... I'm going to be a little less than pleased and feel that Subaru should reimburse me (see; do something to restore my customer loyalty and faith) somehow. I don't know what or how, but... something. Do you guys think that's unrealistic? :confused:
I'll probably get flamed for this but here goes... I don't really think the dealer owes you anything. Yes the squeak was mis-diagnosed but the whole car is metal which can cause the noise to sound like it was coming from anywhere. For example, ever tried to diagnose a squeak on an aluminum framed mountain bike? It's pretty much impossible. You were continually pushing the dealer to provide a solution so they were taking their best shot at what they thought the problem was. Most dealerships I know would have just jiggled around some stuff and told you they couldn't find it and to deal with it. Admittedly it sounds like their techs could use some classes on problem solving but it's not like they threw some glue on it and said they fixed it. They genuinely gave it a shot at fixing it.

I understand you're frustrated with having to be without your car for weeks at a time but lets face it... it's a 15k dollar car with 20k worth of drivetrain in it. It's never going to be as quiet and rattle-proof as a pricier car like a BMW, MB, etc.

Cliffnotes: I think the dealership took their best shot at repairing it and you should give them credit for footing that huge bill when they could have just told you to shove it. Get them to fix the hatch supports and call it a day.
 
#91 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

I can't believe that the dealer would have thousands of dollars of work done without being sure about what was causing the problem. No money out of his pocket, so he probably didn't care. They wouldn't have my business any longer after that ordeal.
 
#92 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

I can't believe that the dealer would have thousands of dollars of work done without being sure about what was causing the problem. No money out of his pocket, so he probably didn't care. They wouldn't have my business any longer after that ordeal.
^^ I completely agree and mentioned that same thought as we were driving home amazed that we might have found the cause of the squeak to be a $100 set of trunk dampers/assists that could have been identified and changed many months ago. I hope SOA does not reimburse the dealer for any charges ariseing from their obvious mis-diagnosis and overly invasive repair. I would also recommend writing some letters to SOA regional representatives to ensure the dealer is repremanded.
 
#95 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

My hatch "squeaked" like this for years. I never cared, and thus never spent a day with it in the shop. I traded it in a while back and look fondly upon my years of ownership.

Turn the radio up, enjoy your damn car! Or, since it's been such an epic drama, pursue a buy-back?
 
#97 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

My hatch "squeaked" like this for years. I never cared, and thus never spent a day with it in the shop. I traded it in a while back and look fondly upon my years of ownership.

Turn the radio up, enjoy your damn car! Or, since it's been such an epic drama, pursue a buy-back?
As I stated, I can deal with plastic rattles... but unknown sources of metal squeaking/clanking not so much. Not only because of the audible effects, but if the source is unknown If I were to 'get on the couch' about this particular issue, road trips from IL to PA as a young child in a full sized van would probably come out of the wood-work :lol:. Our van had the same exact noise resonating from the double side doors that absolutely drove me nuts. After several trips like this my dad finally fixed it with some rubber injection material of some sort.

BTW, snoring has the same effect on me... my mom was a snorer, any time I hear the hint of a snore my blood boils. I've found ways to manage that though, ear plugs ;). Not so safe for driving though, haha.

Thanks for your input guys, it's appreciated. I enjoy my STi and look forward to hopefully many more years of doing so, whether it becomes just a project toy or remains my daily driver. :tup:
 
#98 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

I stopped by the dealer on lunch and spoke to the service manager. I showed him the video from Saturday's test drive and what we thought could be the root cause. There was expected speculation, but he seemed receptive and said that he would order replacement dampers for the hatch. His reservation was this; without the dampers holding the weight of the hatch, there is more pressure on the potential problem area, thus stopping the squeak.

Anyways, he also has sun visor clips on order, because in the midst of all of this work mine were broken. I will continue to drive the car without any plastics on the hatch and the dampers removed. I'll update the service manager when I pick up the visor clips later in the week.
 
#100 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

As a former dealer service department employee for 3 years, in my opinion this is unacceptable. Sales dept. sells the first car and service sells every subsequent vehicle.

The problem snowballed from lazy technicians that are paid on a flat rate scale, unless a part is replaced or the cause corrected they are not paid for diagnostic time. This problem was relatively easy for me to locate but required some time on the road to duplicate the problem and a little out-of-the-box thinking. I used a strong orbital buffer to duplicate the problem then started a basic process of elimination until the cause was located. This 2 hour process of diagnosis to come up with worn dampers would have only yielded about .3-1.0 hour of pay for a technician to change trunk dampers. Lazy techs and a complacent service manager are the problem here......so, yes I feel Deek should be compensated in some way for lost time and headaches (literally).
 
#103 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

Dealerships are representing a manufacturers product and are bound by certain laws and agreements to uphold the warranty issued by the mfg. When a dealer attempts and fails at a repair a reasonable amount of times (usually 3 or more) the mfg. ends up in litigation with the vehicle owner and per CA lemon laws usually is forced to "buy back" the vehicle. If a mfg. is buying back vehicles due to a dealers inability to repair the problem their franchise may be in jeopardy. "End of the rope," analogy does not apply when the customer has done exactly what they are supposed too regardless if some of us are more demanding customers.
 
#104 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

Dealerships are representing a manufacturers product and are bound by certain laws and agreements to uphold the warranty issued by the mfg. When a dealer attempts and fails at a repair a reasonable amount of times (usually 3 or more) the mfg. ends up in litigation with the vehicle owner and per CA lemon laws usually is forced to "buy back" the vehicle. If a mfg. is buying back vehicles due to a dealers inability to repair the problem their franchise may be in jeopardy. "End of the rope," analogy does not apply when the customer has done exactly what they are supposed too regardless if some of us are more demanding customers.
Yes I get all that...as I said you have to pick your battles and pursuing or expecting a buy back over a squeak/noise on a 3-4 year old car would be much more trouble/effort than it's worth to me. That said, I admire the OP's determination and hope it works out in the end.
 
#107 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

^^ You are correct, but the warranty administrator can deny the reimbursement charges and leave the dealer with the bill if the dealer made an incorrect diagnosis and received authorization to perform work that does not remedy the problem. This way if you have technicians making incorrect diagnosis' it comes out of the dealers pocket not SOA.
 
#108 · (Edited)
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

The dealer service manager just contacted me, he had a conversation with an engineer at Subaru. The engineer said he's traced down these squeaks on other hatches, which have required more than one repair. It seems that one repaired squeak could bring another one into the light. I understand this, but assured him that the noise hasn't changed as of yet. I let him know that it is still resonating from the same location and sounds identical. Of course this doesn't solidify any theory, I just wanted him to know those facts.

I also let him know that I understand his skepticism regarding the dampers. So we're both pretty interested to see if the noise resurfaces once the new dampers are in.

The replacement visor clips and dampers aren't in yet, he will call me when he gets them. Then we can install them and go on a test drive to see where we're at.

Edit: I also received a voicemail from the SOA rep while I was in a meeting. She was just following up with me to let me know that she received my voicemail.
 
#109 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

The dealer service manager called me this morning saying that my dampers and visor clips came in today. We arranged for me to head to the dealer during lunch to get it all installed.

I stopped in at the arranged time, and he was waiting with the parts. We installed them and went on a test drive up some of the same crappy roads featured in the video, but not for nearly as long. Not a squeak was heard in the 30 minutes we were in the car.

To note: Even the new passenger side damper had more play than the driver side damper... which is consistent with the old dampers.

I will be driving around a bit this weekend, making sure that I cross the 'sure-to-squeak' bump that I drive over every day. He wants me to leave him a voicemail over the weekend if the squeak occurs, and we'll touch base either way on Monday to stay on the same page.

At this point, it seems that one of two things could be true;
1) The damper was the culprit.
2) The new damper has more dampening force (see; not worn) and is preventing the squeak.

I'd be interested to have him keep the original damper around for a week or so (if possible, since it's a warranty repair). If there are no squeaks after a week of driving with the new damper, we can put the old ones back on and see if it returns. He's out to lunch now, so I left him a voicemail with this idea asking that he call me back with his thoughts.
 
#112 ·
#113 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

The 2008 collision repair catalog refers to them as Liftgate Support Cylinders L/R. Heuberger Subaru parts on the home page lists them for $80.36 ea (MSRP $107.15), I cant find part #'s though but search by year and model for liftgate and select gate and hardware link.
 
#114 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

The dealer service manager called me this morning to check in, wondering if I heard anything over the past few days. I was happy to report that I didn't hear anything, but did minimal driving this weekend. :)

I was in meetings this morning, so I forgot to discuss the potential of reinstalling the old dampers in a week or so to see if the noise resurfaces. I'll call him later, after I'm caught up here with my tasks here at work. I'm quite alright with being a guinea-pig as long as I know we're working towards a resolution, especially if there's potential that this could help others as well.

Just to keep this updated... I put my interior plastics back in this weekend, using the foam I picked up from Lowes to help eliminate ticks & rattles. I might revisit some of the plastics with a different foam material though, at which point I'll snap some pictures and include them in a post.
 
#115 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

The SOA rep called me today to check in. She's been in touch with the dealer service manager and the regional rep, and since I haven't been in contact this week they're all assuming that no news is good news.

I'm happy to report that so far I haven't heard a squeak, but I did apologize for not keeping the communication with them as consistent has I have been. Last week was a very busy one at the office (this week is looking the same) and I'm recovering from a cold/flu thing.

I'm going to call the dealer service manager tomorrow to update him as well. I'll also see how he feels about putting the old dampers on for a week to see if the squeak resurfaces, if he still has them.
 
#116 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

This long with out a squeak and dare I say that swapping the old damper back in won't be necessary after all. If nothing else, you've got a "fun" story to tell about the whole ordeal. Them trouble-shooting the issue properly and swapping out the damper to begin with would have been WAY too boring!
 
#119 ·
Re: 2008 STi - Broken welds on rear roof support (metal on metal squeak)...

Today I called the dealer and spoke to the service manager, just to let him know that things are looking (sounding :)) good so far... which means no squeaks.

We discussed the idea of putting the old dampers back in to see if the issue resurfaced but both decided we'd pass on that and, essentially leave well enough alone.

Seems this has been resolved, albeit with potentially excessive repairs and time/resources consumption. I'll update the original post to reflect our final theory.
 
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