[falconeight]

Ok, the only reason this thread is here is because of the prices are similiar. The two cars are as different as can be. One is a homologation car made to win the World Rally Championship. One is a upscale small sedan made to put people on a lower budget into a niche car. When you drive off of a Subaru lot in a 2008 STI you feel like a king believe me you will or did. The car is amazing and the build quality including the interior and leather alcantera seats are awesome. The long hood flare fenders, working hood scoop, wheels, brakes, si drive, adjustable diff are worth paying more for when compared to crap like microsoft sync, etc. When you drive of the BMW lot with a 1 series no matter what it is you will immediatley feel cheated, the car looks like crap, it looks like they forget 10% of the car, and I am not saying that to put down BMW. Because the 3 series sedans and coupes are truly awesome cars to look at, drive, and live with. If you want the worlds best rally car get the STI, If you want a upscale sports coupe get a Audi TT, G37, 350Z, or save for a 3 series. But for the love of all that is Holy stay away from the snub nosed 1 series believe me when its discontinued in 2 years just like the last one you will thank me. Peace and stop comparing two cars that are in two different leagues.

[YeloFva]

Originally Posted by BMonkey

Ok, in the spirit of comradere I don't want to start a flame war, but the production methods I mentioned before aren't an "idea" they're an accepted fact. You can't produce 10000 crankshafts that are all the exact same weight, metal hardness, carbon content, etc. why do you think some cars are "lemons" and others aren't? Too much citrus in the paint?

As far as the brakes are concerned, I'm not sure where your coming up with single piston brakes to compare to 6 piston ones, as the STI uses 4 piston front brakes. And for the rest of the jibberish you said about the brakes, please re-read what I said, or better yet do a little research about brakes. 6 piston brakes allow for a larger surface area of brake pad to be in contact with the brake rotor at any given time, allowing for more stopping power. But conversely there is less brake rotor exposed to the air and the caliper will weigh more. Also like I said the caliper will physically be weaker due to increased distance between the bridges of the two sides. This means under braking they will be more prone to flex from the force the pistons are exerting.


I answered this in my earlier post very specifically.

Major kudos for that reply

[Mykl]

I'm still kind of in shock that the BMW doesn't have a dipstick.

[///M Power]

Originally Posted by 300hp@6000rpm

There's so much blind hate in this thread its rediculous. The 08 STi and the 135 are two very different cars, with their only semblance being their price points. Both have their own pros and cons and are positioned towards their own unique target audiences. As I've said countless times in this thread, just because it's a 1 Series does not make it bottom of the barrel. The 135i shares nearly all of its mechanical parts with the 335i. And I find it funny that the 135i and 08 STi are also exactly the same size, and only the 135i is called "small".

You're completely missing the point. The 1 Series was not created to be an "affordable" entry-level BMW. The 1 Seires was created as "filler" between the Z4 and 3 Series. BMW engineers were trying to mesh the handling and nimbleness of the Z4 with the practicality of the 3 series. It was created to slightly appease the purists complaining of the ballooning curb weights of todays vehicles. The 135i targets motorsport enthusiats by linking itself to the 2002 (BMW's 1968 lightweight sports sedan). 6 Piston brakes, a full lineup of performance parts and a rumored Tii production model (lightweight track version) for a "lowest of the low chick car"???

Oh and I'm sure he will be having fun when he's lapping 08's at the track or out-accelerating them on the highway. This is truly a wake-up call for Subaru as I'd never thought I'd see the day a BMW would be giving the STi a run for its money.....




I'm not quite sure what your getting at with the similar parts arguement. I'm not saying "80% of the components are based of 3 series parts" or "They keep the more well manufactured pieces for the nicer cars."

What I'm saying the parts are straight out the 3 series, meaning the 135i uses the EXACT SAME parts as its 3 series counterpart! This is why the prices between the 1 and 3 are so close. The seats, leather, suspension, motor, tranny, etc are the EXACT SAME parts you'd find in a 335i/535i only slightly altered so they match the chassis they're being installed on.

[Mikael1052]

Originally Posted by falconeight

Ok, the only reason this thread is here is because of the prices are similiar. The two cars are as different as can be. One is a homologation car made to win the World Rally Championship. One is a upscale small sedan made to put people on a lower budget into a niche car. When you drive off of a Subaru lot in a 2008 STI you feel like a king believe me you will or did. The car is amazing and the build quality including the interior and leather alcantera seats are awesome. The long hood flare fenders, working hood scoop, wheels, brakes, si drive, adjustable diff are worth paying more for when compared to crap like microsoft sync, etc. When you drive of the BMW lot with a 1 series no matter what it is you will immediatley feel cheated, the car looks like crap, it looks like they forget 10% of the car, and I am not saying that to put down BMW. Because the 3 series sedans and coupes are truly awesome cars to look at, drive, and live with. If you want the worlds best rally car get the STI, If you want a upscale sports coupe get a Audi TT, G37, 350Z, or save for a 3 series. But for the love of all that is Holy stay away from the snub nosed 1 series believe me when its discontinued in 2 years just like the last one you will thank me. Peace and stop comparing two cars that are in two different leagues.

I'm sorry but this one has to be the most off-base posts yet. The new STi seats are "awesome?!" Are you kidding me? They have nice alcantara on about 40% of them but the "leather" on the back is the worst quality I've ever seen in a car. And the bolsters...wait, there are none. The bottoms are flat and wide enough to be in a pickup. An opinion, yes, but I'd rip them out IMMEDIATELY if I got one.

And feeling cheated in the 1? The build and cabin quality is such that you're more likely to feel you STOLE the thing for what you paid (if you didn't go crazy on options.) I know few of us on here care that much about luxury, myself included, but I don't know anyone who could sit in the STi after being in the 1 and not frown for at least a second at the HUGE difference in quality. I still don't understand why several people have qualified their 135 criticism by praising the 335 - as discussed, the 1 is the same damn thing with mostly the same damn parts but smaller.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you might be one of the accused critics who has not driven the 135....?

[BuzSTid]

Originally Posted by Mykl

I'm still kind of in shock that the BMW doesn't have a dipstick.

sure it does, it's called a "driver"

/donning nomex suit/

[wyattroa1]

Originally Posted by Mikael1052

I'm sorry but this one has to be the most off-base posts yet. The new STi seats are "awesome?!" Are you kidding me? They have nice alcantara on about 40% of them but the "leather" on the back is the worst quality I've ever seen in a car. And the bolsters...wait, there are none. The bottoms are flat and wide enough to be in a pickup. An opinion, yes, but I'd rip them out IMMEDIATELY if I got one.

And feeling cheated in the 1? The build and cabin quality is such that you're more likely to feel you STOLE the thing for what you paid (if you didn't go crazy on options.) I know few of us on here care that much about luxury, myself included, but I don't know anyone who could sit in the STi after being in the 1 and not frown for at least a second at the HUGE difference in quality. I still don't understand why several people have qualified their 135 criticism by praising the 335 - as discussed, the 1 is the same damn thing with mostly the same damn parts but smaller.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you might be one of the accused critics who has not driven the 135....?

same thing as the guys that frown upon the 08 sti...the guys that drive the 04-07 models... most wont even give it a chance because of the looks...oh well..
robert

[threader]

Good Read for those contemplating a 1 135i purchase

Quote "After testing BMW 135i and 335i coupes back-to-back, I can reveal that there are only two good reasons to purchase the smaller, cheaper car. Either you need a track day machine or you're an idiot. Otherwise, spend the extra bucks and buy the 335i coupe. The 335i coupe is more attractive, more enjoyable to drive, holds its value better and offers far more real road usability than the 135i. If BMW had made the 135i as a lightweight, no-frills, Bahn-burning turbo rocket ship, they would have created a truly unique, desirable automobile. But they didn't."

2008 BMW 135i vs. 335i Review | The Truth About Cars

[///M Power]

Originally Posted by wyattroa1

same thing as the guys that frown upon the 08 sti...the guys that drive the 04-07 models... most wont even give it a chance because of the looks...oh well..
robert

I take it that this is your first STI? I have

[wyattroa1]

Originally Posted by ///M Power

I take it that this is your first STI? I have

it is my first sti... i was in the market for a 05 but then i saw the new one and liked it better.. i have also driven the 04,05, and 07...so what exactly is your point?
robert

[300hp@6000rpm]

Originally Posted by BMonkey

Ok, in the spirit of comradere I don't want to start a flame war, but the production methods I mentioned before aren't an "idea" they're an accepted fact. You can't produce 10000 crankshafts that are all the exact same weight, metal hardness, carbon content, etc. why do you think some cars are "lemons" and others aren't? Too much citrus in the paint?

Yes not trying to start a flame war, and I'm probably not going to be replying to this thread any more. Yes you make a very valid point, all cars have lemons and all car parts not created equal. However, I highly doubt BMW will go through the trouble of seperating all the out-of-spec parts just so they can be installed on the 1 Series. Lemons come in all different shapes and sizes, and are NOT limited to the lowest model in a manufacteurs lineup. If your arguement held water then past 3 Series would have horrible reliablity when compared to other models. They don't, infact its quite the opposite with BMW as the more expensive models tend to have the most problems. This is a car manufacteur not a race team, they strive to produce parts that are of the highest quality to to reduce customer complaints and the amount of warranty work they do in the future.

Originally Posted by BMonkey

As far as the brakes are concerned, I'm not sure where your coming up with single piston brakes to compare to 6 piston ones, as the STI uses 4 piston front brakes. And for the rest of the jibberish you said about the brakes, please re-read what I said, or better yet do a little research about brakes. 6 piston brakes allow for a larger surface area of brake pad to be in contact with the brake rotor at any given time, allowing for more stopping power. But conversely there is less brake rotor exposed to the air and the caliper will weigh more. Also like I said the caliper will physically be weaker due to increased distance between the bridges of the two sides. This means under braking they will be more prone to flex from the force the pistons are exerting.


I answered this in my earlier post very specifically.

BMW currently uses floating single (double on the ///M's) piston calipers on all their cars and has taken quite a bit of flak for doing so. Firstly the 6 Pot setup is a fixed unit, so Brake feel is 100x better and more predicable than a floating caliper. When comparing two cars on a single stop, 6 Piston calipers will not stop a car any quicker than sliding/4pot calipers. True 6 pots have a larger surface area and this is precisely the reason why they dissipate heat and resist fade as well as they do. However BRAKE TORQUE is what stops the car, not the number of pistons a caliper has. More pistons simply spread out braking force more effeciently over the rotor. Most BBK's DO NOT reduce stopping distance as they DON'T APPLY any more torque over the stock system.

If your "6 piston brakes allow for a larger surface area of brake pad to be in contact with the brake rotor at any given time, allowing for more stopping power" were true how come the 4000lb M5/M6 with 2 piston sliding calipers stops in the same distance as the 3200lb STi with 4 pot Brembos?

Big Brakes only reduce stopping distances over an OEM system when both systems are hot. The OEM system will start to fade while the other will resist it much more effeicently.

Originally Posted by BMonkey

I'm not sure exactly why you're bragging about 6 piston brakes. The stock or lightly modded form of the car won't be able to consistenly produce speeds on the track that require 6 piston brakes to produce quick stops. So really all you're getting is a caliper that's more prone to flex and increases unsprung weight for reduced suspension response. The reason that the 6-piston calipers were probably chosen is that it's a German car and thus it must be comfortable on the Autobahn, the one place where huge long stops are necessary. But how often in North America are you running 120+mph off of a track (and even on a track your not having to slow the car to a dead stop)

If BMW put these brakes on the car merely because "its a German car and comfortable on the Autobahn" how come the 135i is only car in BMW's lineup with these brakes? You see the purpose of these brakes was not to stop the car quickly on the Autobahn. The purpose is to give the driver more predictable pedal feel and have brakes that won't crap out after a few laps on the track. While the 6pots do significantly aid in slowing from 120mph its not because they're more powerful, its cause they dissipate heat better. I'm also failry confident that the 6 Pots are actually lighter than the sliding calipers as they're made of aluminium. If BMW merely wanted to make the car stop quicker on the Autobahn they would of changed the pads, rotors, and tires as they play a FAR greater role in reducing stopping distances.

Check this thread: So how can you decrease stopping distance? - Brakes, Steering & Suspension - NASIOC

[///M Power]

06>05>04>135i>07>08

[Mykl]

Originally Posted by ///M Power

06>05>04>135i>07>08

pfftt.... you must have really liked those PLASTIC motor mounts!

[Rootus]

Originally Posted by Mykl

pfftt.... you must have really liked those PLASTIC motor mounts!

Just a good excuse to upgrade to the Group-N ones .

[Vampyre]

I stoped by the bmw shop yesterday and was very impressed with the 335xi coupe I drove. So much so im going back sat to look at the 335I and 1 series. Probley should not of gone there as im trying to justfiey the price difference compared to the STi.

Drove the STi that same day and biggest thing I noticed about how it drove was how numb the steering was. Other then that it really reminded my of my 05 sti that I had.