[SirMattieP]

^^^^ Keep dreaming.

[falconeight]

135i is a bottom of the barrel BMW, the STI is the best Suabru has to offer. I would rather pay for performance, technology, pedigree, utility and speed. I would not pay $35,000 for a watered down 3 series that will end up costing closer to $40,000. Pay for the car not the name.

[waktasz]

It's not exactly watered down. To be honest, the performance, technology, pedigree and speed are better in the BMW.

[Wtfmateim65]

hmm if thats true then its sad that BMW's lowest is better than Subaru's best! The BMW interior and build components are better than the Subaru's. The subaru still feels like a honda with a big turbo. The BMW is a LOT nicer and is indeed faster, and does in fact have more prestige...

EDIT oh and the 128i is the 'lowest'. Just because it's the cheapest of their line doesn't mean its a piece of junk, its also the smallest.

[300hp@6000rpm]

Originally Posted by falconeight

135i is a bottom of the barrel BMW, the STI is the best Suabru has to offer. I would rather pay for performance, technology, pedigree, utility and speed. I would not pay $35,000 for a watered down 3 series that will end up costing closer to $40,000. Pay for the car not the name.

Not true at all. The engine and trans are straight out of the 335i/535i. The front suspension and 80% of the mechanical "guts" in the car come straight out of the 3 Series. This is the main reason why the car is so closely priced to the 3 Series, causing many to complain that its "overpriced" but in reality its a 335i stuffed into a smaller chassis. The 135i also comes with 6 Piston Brembos and an electronic LSD. (No other non-M Bimmer has those options).

If you order the car with no options, you will ONLY pay around $35K-$36K. Its hard to find a dealer that stocks base 135i's so if you're willing to wait a month or two it can most definately be done.

[FleaDog]

jesus, some of these comments are crazy.
Please remember the thread is about 08 sti vs 135i.
I love my sti, but the 135i is just as much an animal.
Feels faster, and alot more comfortable.
Sport seats alone, wow.
balls on highway, wow.
Stock handling, very good.
Steering communication ... Does my STI have any ???
Thats what I was thinking grinning when i drove one.
What I like the most is since its a bmw (or like any euro), you'll
be able to upgrade the suspension fairly easily with sport springs
and NICE bilstein fixed perch struts, and sways; unlike subaru,
where you are forced to buy coilovers, which i hate.
And please forget about the sterotypes, etc, and everything else
other than the feeling you get from driving it
(otherwise I would have NOT bought the STI) and I feel
youll find the 135i is f*ckin awesome ride. So if you have an STI,
why not; If you havent owned an STI, well the decision is that much harder.
Beers.

[SirMattieP]

Originally Posted by FleaDog

jesus, some of these comments are crazy.
Please remember the thread is about 08 sti vs 135i.
I love my sti, but the 135i is just as much an animal.
Feels faster, and alot more comfortable.
Sport seats alone, wow.
balls on highway, wow.
Stock handling, very good.
Steering communication ... Does my STI have any ???
Thats what I was thinking grinning when i drove one.
What I like the most is since its a bmw (or like any euro), you'll
be able to upgrade the suspension fairly easily with sport springs
and NICE bilstein fixed perch struts, and sways; unlike subaru,
where you are forced to buy coilovers, which i hate.
And please forget about the sterotypes, etc, and everything else
other than the feeling you get from driving it
(otherwise I would have NOT bought the STI) and I feel
youll find the 135i is f*ckin awesome ride. So if you have an STI,
why not; If you havent owned an STI, well the decision is that much harder.
Beers.

Chicks car!!! Have fun brotherr. If you want to buy a BMW then buy one, not the lowest of the low. Just so you can have the name looking all prestige in a Mini Cooper with the BMW name. It will be different if you choose the 335i cause thats legit, where as this is not, but Goodluck.

[BMonkey]

Originally Posted by falconeight

135i is a bottom of the barrel BMW, the STI is the best Suabru has to offer. I would rather pay for performance, technology, pedigree, utility and speed. I would not pay $35,000 for a watered down 3 series that will end up costing closer to $40,000. Pay for the car not the name.

+1

Like they said, about 80% of the components are based off of 3-series components. So where is this monetary savings coming from? do you think using cheaper leather saves a couple grand? or that the difference in sheet metal for the body is going to save BMW thousands of dollars? Yea right. My theory is that to save BMW money they purposefully made most of the components off of the 3-series components so they wouldn't have to engineer new ones/manufacture new ones. Then what they do on the production line when specing them to the engineer's specifications is take the ones that are "within tolerances" but not as close to the factory blueprint as possible and send them off to the 1-series. They keep the more well manufactured pieces for the nicer cars.

Add in the fact that the Subaru will be more mod friendly and that there will be a wider selection of performance parts available for less $$$.

(Looks are a personal thing, but the 1-series looked better in photos, worse in person. The STI looks worse in photos, much better in person).

[SirMattieP]

Originally Posted by BMonkey

(Looks are a personal thing, but the 1-series looked better in photos, worse in person. The STI looks worse in photos, much better in person).

SO TRUE!!! And who wouldnt want a car that looks better in person than in pictures. Having the STI looks better in person will surprise a lot of people who didnt expect it to look that good. As to the 135i which is the epitome of that^^

[300hp@6000rpm]

Originally Posted by SirMattieP

Chicks car!!! Have fun brotherr. If you want to buy a BMW then buy one, not the lowest of the low. Just so you can have the name looking all prestige in a Mini Cooper with the BMW name. It will be different if you choose the 335i cause thats legit, where as this is not, but Goodluck.

There's so much blind hate in this thread its rediculous. The 08 STi and the 135 are two very different cars, with their only semblance being their price points. Both have their own pros and cons and are positioned towards their own unique target audiences. As I've said countless times in this thread, just because it's a 1 Series does not make it bottom of the barrel. The 135i shares nearly all of its mechanical parts with the 335i. And I find it funny that the 135i and 08 STi are also exactly the same size, and only the 135i is called "small".

You're completely missing the point. The 1 Series was not created to be an "affordable" entry-level BMW. The 1 Seires was created as "filler" between the Z4 and 3 Series. BMW engineers were trying to mesh the handling and nimbleness of the Z4 with the practicality of the 3 series. It was created to slightly appease the purists complaining of the ballooning curb weights of todays vehicles. The 135i targets motorsport enthusiats by linking itself to the 2002 (BMW's 1968 lightweight sports sedan). 6 Piston brakes, a full lineup of performance parts and a rumored Tii production model (lightweight track version) for a "lowest of the low chick car"???

Oh and I'm sure he will be having fun when he's lapping 08's at the track or out-accelerating them on the highway. This is truly a wake-up call for Subaru as I'd never thought I'd see the day a BMW would be giving the STi a run for its money.....

Originally Posted by BMonkey

+1

Like they said, about 80% of the components are based off of 3-series components. So where is this monetary savings coming from? do you think using cheaper leather saves a couple grand? or that the difference in sheet metal for the body is going to save BMW thousands of dollars? Yea right. My theory is that to save BMW money they purposefully made most of the components off of the 3-series components so they wouldn't have to engineer new ones/manufacture new ones. Then what they do on the production line when specing them to the engineer's specifications is take the ones that are "within tolerances" but not as close to the factory blueprint as possible and send them off to the 1-series. They keep the more well manufactured pieces for the nicer cars.

Add in the fact that the Subaru will be more mod friendly and that there will be a wider selection of performance parts available for less $$$.

(Looks are a personal thing, but the 1-series looked better in photos, worse in person. The STI looks worse in photos, much better in person).

I'm not quite sure what your getting at with the similar parts arguement. I'm not saying "80% of the components are based of 3 series parts" or "They keep the more well manufactured pieces for the nicer cars."

What I'm saying the parts are straight out the 3 series, meaning the 135i uses the EXACT SAME parts as its 3 series counterpart! This is why the prices between the 1 and 3 are so close. The seats, leather, suspension, motor, tranny, etc are the EXACT SAME parts you'd find in a 335i/535i only slightly altered so they match the chassis they're being installed on.

[Mikael1052]

This is a downright venomous thread. Has there been one post on here from someone who has driven a 135i that has hate for it? I LOVED my 05 STi. I completely expected to buy an 08 but I was straight-up blown away by my testdrive of the 1. I went back and drove it again and then went straight to drive the 08 STi and the Subie feels downright mediocre in comparison. I know the stock tune is crap and stage 2 makes it a different car but I have a feeling when pricing comes out, Cobb's new TBE + AP is gonna run you mighty close to $2000 and for that....I'm just too intrigued by the numbers a Dinan treatment can get the BMW to while preserving the warranty.

1 Series :: 135 Coupe (E82) 2008 :: Engine Tuning :: Performance Engine Software/Boost Upgrade

I know those types of gains by simply throwing money at your dealer's service dept. seems like sacrilege to many here. I get that most get great enjoyment out of the labors of modding but I'm embarrassed to say I am not one of them. I'm all about instant gratification.

Anyway, I've got nothing bad to say about the new STi (other than I'd rather sit on the floor than in those stupid seats.) I'd encourage any and all of you to fancy-up and go get your nouveau-riche on at the BMW dealer and drive that thing before you say everyone buys it for the badge. I used to loudly declare the SRT4 was a pile of ****....then I went and drove one and found....the SRT4 IS a pile of ****....but at least I could then say it from experience. (I took a long shower after that.) Go drive the 135i and report back!

[300hp@6000rpm]

Originally Posted by Mikael1052

This is a downright venomous thread. Has there been one post on here from someone who has driven a 135i that has hate for it? I LOVED my 05 STi. I completely expected to buy an 08 but I was straight-up blown away by my testdrive of the 1. I went back and drove it again and then went straight to drive the 08 STi and the Subie feels downright mediocre in comparison. I know the stock tune is crap and stage 2 makes it a different car but I have a feeling when pricing comes out, Cobb's new TBE + AP is gonna run you mighty close to $2000 and for that....I'm just too intrigued by the numbers a Dinan treatment can get the BMW to while preserving the warranty.

1 Series :: 135 Coupe (E82) 2008 :: Engine Tuning :: Performance Engine Software/Boost Upgrade

I know those types of gains by simply throwing money at your dealer's service dept. seems like sacrilege to many here. I get that most get great enjoyment out of the labors of modding but I'm embarrassed to say I am not one of them. I'm all about instant gratification.

Anyway, I've got nothing bad to say about the new STi (other than I'd rather sit on the floor than in those stupid seats.) I'd encourage any and all of you to fancy-up and go get your nouveau-riche on at the BMW dealer and drive that thing before you say everyone buys it for the badge. I used to loudly declare the SRT4 was a pile of ****....then I went and drove one and found....the SRT4 IS a pile of ****....but at least I could then say it from experience. (I took a long shower after that.) Go drive the 135i and report back!

A very big +1. Go drive both cars!

I personally like both the Bimmer & the STi. I really love Subaru mainly because of its WRC history. My only beef with the 08 STi is that Subaru is taking it more mainstream and "toning it down". I would have liked to see at the very least some performance improvements (engine-wise) on the 08. When the STi fist came stateside it was the fastest car you buy for under $30K, handled extremely wheel out of the box, and was the epitome of the phrase: "Raw, street-legal racecar".

Now, not so much.....

[BMonkey]

Originally Posted by 300hp@6000rpm

Oh and I'm sure he will be having fun when he's lapping 08's at the track or out-accelerating them on the highway. This is truly a wake-up call for Subaru as I'd never thought I'd see the day a BMW would be giving the STi a run for its money.....




You're completely missing the point. The 1 Series was not created to be an "affordable" entry-level BMW. The 1 Seires was created as "filler" between the Z4 and 3 Series. BMW engineers were trying to mesh the handling and nimbleness of the Z4 with the practicality of the 3 series. It was created to slightly appease the purists complaining of the ballooning curb weights of todays vehicles. The 135i targets motorsport enthusiats by linking itself to the 2002 (BMW's 1968 lightweight sports sedan). 6 Piston brakes, a full lineup of performance parts and a rumored Tii production model (lightweight track version) for a "lowest of the low chick car"???

I'm not quite sure what your getting at with the similar parts arguement. I'm not saying "80% of the components are based of 3 series parts" or "They keep the more well manufactured pieces for the nicer cars."

What I'm saying the parts are straight out the 3 series, meaning the 135i uses the EXACT SAME parts as its 3 series counterpart! This is why the prices between the 1 and 3 are so close. The seats, leather, suspension, motor, tranny, etc are the EXACT SAME parts you'd find in a 335i/535i only slightly altered so they match the chassis they're being installed on.

Hm... A little info on vehicle production. I'm sure you've seen factory race teams that base their vehicles off of "Stock" vehicles, whether car or motorcycle. The internal components selected for the factory race teams are the best in a production run. "Best" meaning the component most closely meets the design blueprint laid out by the engineers. Most components produced aren't the exact blueprint spec. The fall within an acceptable tolerance range. For example, if a 1-series piston is designed by an engineer to weigh 500 grams, the production tolerances might be between 485 grams and 515 grams. So by picking the pieces that are as close to the design was intended to be, strength and performance can be maximised. Conversely, the pieces that fall to the outer limits of the acceptable range of tolerances for a component are the "least" desirable. With the 1-series sharing it's engine with the 3-series and 5-series, to me it seems logical that BMW would send the closer to spec tolerances to the 3-series or 5-series rather than the 1-series. Why would they ruin the reputation of their already established cars that cost signifigantly more money and have a hard won reputation in the automotive world?

As far as the chassis is concerned... it's not really much of a chassis to mod off of. It's narrow(135i Front/Rear Track: 57.9"/58.9" STI Front/Rear Track: 60.2"/60.6"), heavy (135i: 3425 lbs [MotorTrend] STI:3356 lbs [MotorTrend]) and has a higher center of gravity (I6 engine configuration vs. flat-4).

I'm not sure exactly why you're bragging about 6 piston brakes. The stock or lightly modded form of the car won't be able to consistenly produce speeds on the track that require 6 piston brakes to produce quick stops. So really all you're getting is a caliper that's more prone to flex and increases unsprung weight for reduced suspension response. The reason that the 6-piston calipers were probably chosen is that it's a German car and thus it must be comfortable on the Autobahn, the one place where huge long stops are necessary. But how often in North America are you running 120+mph off of a track (and even on a track your not having to slow the car to a dead stop)

[300hp@6000rpm]

Originally Posted by BMonkey

Hm... A little info on vehicle production. I'm sure you've seen factory race teams that base their vehicles off of "Stock" vehicles, whether car or motorcycle. The internal components selected for the factory race teams are the best in a production run. "Best" meaning the component most closely meets the design blueprint laid out by the engineers. Most components produced aren't the exact blueprint spec. The fall within an acceptable tolerance range. For example, if a 1-series piston is designed by an engineer to weigh 500 grams, the production tolerances might be between 485 grams and 515 grams. So by picking the pieces that are as close to the design was intended to be, strength and performance can be maximised. Conversely, the pieces that fall to the outer limits of the acceptable range of tolerances for a component are the "least" desirable. With the 1-series sharing it's engine with the 3-series and 5-series, to me it seems logical that BMW would send the closer to spec tolerances to the 3-series or 5-series rather than the 1-series. Why would they ruin the reputation of their already established cars that cost signifigantly more money and have a hard won reputation in the automotive world?

As far as the chassis is concerned... it's not really much of a chassis to mod off of. It's narrow(135i Front/Rear Track: 57.9"/58.9" STI Front/Rear Track: 60.2"/60.6"), heavy (135i: 3425 lbs [MotorTrend] STI:3356 lbs [MotorTrend]) and has a higher center of gravity (I6 engine configuration vs. flat-4).

I'm not sure exactly why you're bragging about 6 piston brakes. The stock or lightly modded form of the car won't be able to consistenly produce speeds on the track that require 6 piston brakes to produce quick stops. So really all you're getting is a caliper that's more prone to flex and increases unsprung weight for reduced suspension response. The reason that the 6-piston calipers were probably chosen is that it's a German car and thus it must be comfortable on the Autobahn, the one place where huge long stops are necessary. But how often in North America are you running 120+mph off of a track (and even on a track your not having to slow the car to a dead stop)

While the idea is interesting I highly doubt BMW will be sending off-spec parts to the 1 Series. The 335i motor will be eventually replacing the non-turbo I6 in ALL BMW cars (Z4's to X3's) so its very unlikely the 1 will be singled out. If your "out-of-spec parts go to lowest/cheapest model" arguement was true how come past 3 Series generations weren't falling apart or grenading themselves on a daily basis? Also this creates a bigger headache for BMW when they have to replace an entire motor under warranty when they could have just used pistons that were upto spec. If repeated 135i's have engine problems that would ultimately kill demand for that particular model, making producing it quite pointless.

There's a big reason why BMW went out the way to put a 6 piston Brembos on the 135i when they could of just stuck with the single piston sliding calipers they use on EVERY other model. Its all about the target audience.

6 Pot brakes don't produce shorter stopping distances but they do dissipate heat and resist fade 100x better than calipers with less pistons (more-or-less the crappy sliding calipers BMW uses). If the 135i was indeed the "bottom of the barrel, BMW chick" car, why would BMW undertake the added production cost to install 6 pot brakes on a car thats going to primarily be driven around by a soccer mom to the grocery store? That just doesn't make sense....

As seen with recent M3 reviews, their single-piston sliding calipers just didn't cut it. Fade was horrible and the pedal was on the floor after a few laps. I'm soo hung up on the 6pots because BMW actually realizes 1 owners are going to actually be tracking their cars hence the reason they went out of their way to install upgraded brakes.....

[BMonkey]

Originally Posted by 300hp@6000rpm

While the idea is interesting I highly doubt BMW will be sending off-spec parts to the 1 Series. The 335i motor will be eventually replacing the non-turbo I6 in ALL BMW cars (Z4's to X3's) so its very unlikely the 1 will be singled out. If your "out-of-spec parts go to lowest/cheapest model" arguement was true how come past 3 Series generations weren't falling apart or grenading themselves on a daily basis? Also this creates a bigger headache for BMW when they have to replace an entire motor under warranty when they could have just used pistons that were upto spec. If repeated 135i's have engine problems that would ultimately kill demand for that particular model, making producing it quite pointless.

There's a big reason why BMW went out the way to put a 6 piston Brembos on the 135i when they could of just stuck with the single piston sliding calipers they use on EVERY other model. Its all about the target audience.

6 Pot brakes don't produce shorter stopping distances but they do dissipate heat and resist fade 100x better than calipers with less pistons (more-or-less the crappy sliding calipers BMW uses). If the 135i was indeed the "bottom of the barrel, BMW chick" car, why would BMW undertake the added production cost to install 6 pot brakes on a car thats going to primarily be driven around by a soccer mom to the grocery store? That just doesn't make sense....

As seen with recent M3 reviews, their single-piston sliding calipers just didn't cut it. Fade was horrible and the pedal was on the floor after a few laps. I'm soo hung up on the 6pots because BMW actually realizes 1 owners are going to actually be tracking their cars hence the reason they went out of their way to install upgraded brakes.....

Ok, in the spirit of comradere I don't want to start a flame war, but the production methods I mentioned before aren't an "idea" they're an accepted fact. You can't produce 10000 crankshafts that are all the exact same weight, metal hardness, carbon content, etc. why do you think some cars are "lemons" and others aren't? Too much citrus in the paint?

As far as the brakes are concerned, I'm not sure where your coming up with single piston brakes to compare to 6 piston ones, as the STI uses 4 piston front brakes. And for the rest of the jibberish you said about the brakes, please re-read what I said, or better yet do a little research about brakes. 6 piston brakes allow for a larger surface area of brake pad to be in contact with the brake rotor at any given time, allowing for more stopping power. But conversely there is less brake rotor exposed to the air and the caliper will weigh more. Also like I said the caliper will physically be weaker due to increased distance between the bridges of the two sides. This means under braking they will be more prone to flex from the force the pistons are exerting.

Originally Posted by 300hp@6000rpm

If the 135i was indeed the "bottom of the barrel, BMW chick" car, why would BMW undertake the added production cost to install 6 pot brakes on a car thats going to primarily be driven around by a soccer mom to the grocery store? That just doesn't make sense....

I answered this in my earlier post very specifically.

Originally Posted by BMonkey

The reason that the 6-piston calipers were probably chosen is that it's a German car and thus it must be comfortable on the Autobahn, the one place where huge long stops are necessary. But how often in North America are you running 120+mph off of a track (and even on a track your not having to slow the car to a dead stop)