[Kevin]

"The STI or The EVO?"

You might not know it but depending how you answer that question could determine your enthusiast faith.

For me, the 2004 STI won my heart when I felt the raw torque for the first time in the canyons of Malibu just minutes from PCH and the Pacific Ocean. The sound of the Boxer engine jumpstarted a performance spirit that was dying within me.

I can honestly say that when I thought of Subaru, I had this image of the Subarus produced in the late eighties and early nineties. However, something about Subaru's All-Wheel Drive system powered by a motor with 300 hp and 300 ft-lbs of torque caused me to sell a my V8 Mustang for this new breed of Japanese performance in spite of the STI's boy racer image.

I never regretted selling it because I looked forward to the release of the 2008 STI. Magazine after magazine released photoshopped images, which only fueled speculation about the new STI and spread it across the Internet. Still, I wasn't willing to judge the car until I could see it person.

When you see it in person, its not like you see something not in the images, but there is some emotional connection you can make with a car when you see it in person the first time. That connection can either be positive or negative, like when you meet someone for the first time in person.

My first impression of the STI was positive. I couldn't put my finger on it, but I just liked it. Perhaps it was the bulging fenders or the less aggressive look of the hatch (as compared to the previous generation sedan with a large trunk spoiler attached) that appealed to me...and all of the changes Subaru implemented continued to grow on me (with the exception of the new price tag and extra cost of the BBS wheels, which was a distinguishing feature of the previous generation).

Given that both the STI and the EVO have been totally made over for 2008, the infamous question, "The STI or The EVO?", is coming up again with even greater frequency. We are all eager to read the latest magazine reviews and watch all of the video footage covering these two born-again competitors, and everything I read suggests that the EVO's handling gives it a major advantage when these two cars perform at the track; the STI is faulted for having too much body roll.

Well tonight I had the opportunity to drive the new EVO GSR and judge for myself. My first impression was a positive emotional connection. The toned down look makes the EVO more pleasing to the eye (as compared to the look of the previous generation). The looks a bit more sleek yet maintains an aggressive appearance, which is very appealing. I could picture the EVO sitting in my garage.

The handling of the EVO is just sick. The EVO gives real meaning to the phrase "Point-and-shoot." I remember the writers in the media likening the old EVO to a go-kart. If I wanted a track car, the EVO offered the kind of handling and feedback I would want and expect, but I am not shopping for a full-time track car.

I am looking for a daily driver, which is why I didn't like the way the suspension felt driving around town. It reminded me a little bit of how my suspension felt in my 2004 STI...just a little too stiff and not enough give for the pot holes, expansion joints, and elevation changes that define Southern California's streets and freeways.

I frequently refer to the STIs as torque monsters. This is obviously one of the benefits of having an extra half liter of displacement, but nothing generates a better spine-tingling sensation than torque. The EVO absolutely failed to deliver any of this kind of spine tingling; I am curious whether anything can be done in the aftermarket to bump up the torque. However, its silly for me to think I can make the EVO deliver the same spine-tingling sensation I get when accelerating in the STI by bolting on some aftermarket parts...that extra half liter of displacement really gives the STI a notable advantage because you can feel the difference.

If you drove the EVO below 4,000 RPM, you would be absolutely miserable. Unless you enjoy driving a car with a severely underpowered 4 cyclinder engine then you will want get the engine to 4,000 RPM as quickly as possible and keep it above that point whenever the car is moving.

The big horsepower numbers the EVO boasts are not experienced until very late in the power band. The turbo only really begins to spool up as the engine enters the 4,000 RPM range. I felt like it acheived maximum output for 1.5 seconds as it spun through the last 2,000 RPM before it reached redline at 7,000 RPM.

Was it fun? Yes. Will it be fun after three days on the street? Probably not.

I like linear power and I like torque. The EVO doesn't offer either one of these. Still, the EVO comes with Recaro seats that are firm and offer incredible bolstering even for daily driving. These feel as though they would be comfortable for long drives or in stop-and-go traffic. In the seating department, the EVO wins because the seats do double duty on the track and in-traffic better than the seats offered in the STI.

Its worth noting that I didn't get to test out the brakes, but the magazines claim that the STI stops in a shorter distance than the EVO, but the distance isn't significant enough to say that one car is better than the other.

When it was all said and done, I liken the EVO to the girl that you date but don't marry and the STI to the girl you want to marry and take home to meet the parents. In the end, the EVO will deliver an endless amount of thrill at the track, but most daily drivers would need to sacrifice a lot to survive on the street (unless you are young and place more value on seeking a thrill than someone who is a little bit older). The STI, on the other hand, may not be the uber track competitor it once was, but offers an exceptional level of performance and handling for the enthusiast who wants a comfortable daily driver that doesn't stand out in the parking lot at work yet comes alive at the track or on those windy canyon roads.

The EVO looks damn good and makes the question "The STI or The EVO?" an incredibly one to answer, but with a turboback exhaust, engine management, and a few suspension tweaks, the 2008 STI would make the perfect daily driver and occassional track racer, which is something that I prefer at my age. Now if Subaru would lower its price, it would make buying their car over the EVO sooo much easier on the pocket book...

I guess its safe to say I am still of the Subaru enthusiast faith until further notice.

[pwn]

Easier as in actually selling them to us? :P

[AddiSTi]

The "Evo VS. STi" question will propably never be answered. Which is better? It´s just a matter of what you´re looking for regarding performance and handling, how useful it is in daily driving and for some, just the looks.

I like both the Evo and STI. The Evo has this whale-mouth and evil look on it's face while the STI has this wide open mouth and taunting grin. Both look mad... most likely at each other

I think the "Evo VS. STI" war will go on for a long time, unless either company drops their car. Which I doubt. But we are yet to see the impact of the 2.5 turbo stop sales thing. Hopefully it's not as bad as we fear.

Oh by the way... My Evo arrived on Tuesday and is currently waiting at the docks.



Now when will I get my STI?

[RFFG]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I guess its safe to say I am still of the Subaru enthusiast faith until further notice.

x2...

[pisymbol]

If I had to guess, the STI will outsell the EVO just because is more practical (where the heck is the trunk on the GSR, where is it cause I couldn't fine it) and has a better interior (the Recaro's are really nice but not for long distances).

Even though I agree the STI is more of a torque monster than the EVO (at least historically), I think the EVO turbo design is quite impressive. When I took it out I was surprise on the zero turbo lag I felt. But I agree, to really feel any of the approximate 300hp both deliver you need to get the RPMs to 4k as fast as humanly possible.

Obviously a tune on both can fix that...

[VanishingPoint]

At the end of 04 I was looking at both the EVO and STI. I just happened to stop at the Subie dealer first. Bought it on the spot and never made it to the Mitsu dealer. At that time the EVO was a tad faster, but the STIs drive train was bullet proof. I would guess not much has changed.

I used the 05 STI as our main family car and DD. This was fine for short trips to work and such, but anything longer then 2 hours would make me question my decision. Listening to the wife complain the whole time just made it worse. "Yes dear it rides rough, yes you would think a $30,000 car would ride better, your right this is not a race track". To be fair I was getting tired of it myself ( the ride ), so I traded it for a Chevy Malibu. Junior was learning to drive and the Malibu is a pretty nice car, so i like the decision.

In the summer of 07 the oldest son was talking about getting a STI, and we started looking for used ones. I was tossing around the idea of getting another one. Should I get an 07 or just wait a few months and get an 08? I wasnt sure if I liked the hatch, and rumor had it the performance wasnt any better. The dealer made me an offer I couldnt refuse and we took home a WRB 07. I managed to pay off the Malibu, so I only drive the STI short distances.

I believe the 08s better ride has cost it some handling. Like Kevin said at this point in my life a little better ride is important, besides I have learned to drive good enough I can give up alittle handling

Looked at an 08 EVO MR at the auto show. Mitsubishi has improved the interior alot. There was a "body off frame" demo at the show demoing the Yawn control and the complicated rear end. All I could think is what if. What if I change tires and rims will this throw off the calibration? What if I use R compound tires? What if I have to fix this mess? The Subie would be easy, stiffen it up alittle and bolt on some stiff noisey tires and your done.

I hope Subaru doesnt go the yawn control route and instead ups the power for 09. They will need something, because at these prices I will be test driving a Corvette and you know what happens when I do that. I will not make it to the Subaru dealer.

Tony

[AddiSTi]

Yawn control

[solovus]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The toned down look makes the EVO more pleasing to the eye (as compared to the look of the previous generation).

I couldn't disagree with this more. How in the world do you consider the X "toned down?" Holy crap, it looks like it eats children.

[seta311]

i like your analogy of girl you wanna date vs girl you take home and marry. LOL sometimes you wish you can have both

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by solovus

I couldn't disagree with this more. How in the world do you consider the X "toned down?" Holy crap, it looks like it eats children.

You are free to disagree. My comment was comparing the EVO X to the previous body styles (seen below)...the EVO 10 looks toned down to me. Its more appealing to the eyes. However, that does not mean the new EVO is more sleek and sporty looking.

[paikman]

I think the evo looks a lot more refined, as well. The VII and IX are the best looking of the previous gen I think. I hate the 8's bumper.

[solovus]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You are free to disagree. My comment was comparing the EVO X to the previous body styles (seen below)...the EVO 10 looks toned down to me. Its more appealing to the eyes. However, that does not mean the new EVO is more sleek and sporty looking.

I love the older EVOs and I can understand your point because I think the older EVOs are substantially more aggressive, but I only think this because I believe they really went way over the top with the new EVO. They attempted an overly aggressive look that turned out to be slightly silly. I think the new EVO looks great, but I think the older EVOs look even better. The same thing happened with the 350Z and RX-8 IMO... they went from being rugged and aggressive (300ZX/RX-7) to being gaudy and toyish (350Z/RX-8).

[Digitalfiend]

I don't know what it is but the look of Evo X just doesn't appeal to me. It still seems to chunky and ricer-ish. I find that it looks like a confused mating of an Audi front end with an Alfa Romeo rear.

My '05 was my first Subaru and I put up with a lot of small issues and problems just because it delivered so much performance in return. I'm fully prepared to address the minor shortcomings of the '08. I feel the '08 STI looks better and definitely delivers a better ride than my '05 ever did. I just did 7 hours of driving yesterday to get a performance alignment and let me tell you, though I was tired, I wasn't in pain. There were some seriously rough roads too and the new car just soaks them up without upsetting the rear end. My '05 could never handle those bumps as confidently (I did the exact same drive/route 3 times with my '05.)

I really don't think the '08 STI has lost any of its handling capabilities - it just feels different and requires a slight adjustment in how you drive. The tires also play a major role in how the car sticks; I don't think the Dunlops are as capable as the RE070s, even with the extra 20mm of rubber. The steering feel is definitely an issue and something you need to adjust to, but how much of that is tires and/or the revised front end bushings? The STI will still make one hell of a weekend lapping day car with some adjustments here and there.

Personally, Mitsibushi as a company doesn't appeal to me. I don't trust their warranty or their manufacturing quality. The Evo X might make a great track car but it is near useless when it comes to practicality. It will never fit as much in the back as my STI. To me, the STI is the complete package; more refined, more practical, just as fast as my '05, and, as long as the stop sale issue doesn't affect me, it will likely be as reliable too.

[kts262]

Originally Posted by Digitalfiend

Personally, Mitsibushi as a company doesn't appeal to me. I don't trust their warranty or their manufacturing quality. The Evo X might make a great track car but it is near useless when it comes to practicality. It will never fit as much in the back as my STI. To me, the STI is the complete package; more refined, more practical, just as fast as my '05, and, as long as the stop sale issue doesn't affect me, it will likely be as reliable too.

For me, this is the biggest problem I have with the Evo X. While I personally like the look of the Evo X much more than the new STi, the Evo X's trunk only holds 7 cubic feet. That's nothing, and it gets even worse if you get the SSS package which includes a 10" subwoofer in the trunk. (For reference the 04-07 STi has 11 cubic feet of trunk space, the 08 STi has 19 w/ the rear seats up and 44 with them down.)

While I would like the Evo, after seeing the new STi it has started to grow on me, and I do like the idea of how practical the new STi is when it comes to hauling stuff and the merge of performance and practicality.

I'm still a few months out from making a purchase but I do have to admit the STi has gone up in my book. Now if only I could do something about the price of it w/ Navi...

I also agree about the hassle of trying to get a problem fixed under Mitsu's warranty since it seems the dealerships + MMNA like to give people the run around.

I do have to say it seems that the stock Evo X tune is a lot better, while it runs incredibly rich I'd say that's a lot better than running lean like a lot of the 07/08 STis run. The good news for STis is that there are already EM solutions out there that can fix that.

[SekretSkwirl]

Evo vs STi? I can answer that with a simple 'Ill take the EVO' thank you.(just bought an 08' GSR last month) I bowed out to the Subaru world after 4 Impreza' including my '04 STI. I was in for life supposedly. The NEW Evo changed that with one test drive. First let me say that I have no idea why they call it an EVO 'cause it's a totally re-engineered car. Different everything body, motor, 60% stiffer chasis, better MIVEC valvetrain (controls intake and exaust now), superior AWD systems, suspension, bigger than prior EVO brembos (terrible stock pads though) decent quality etc. A whole new car. Personally I hated the EVO 8/9's. Hideous in my eyes...just an econo box with a wing and great motor. That's what the word EVO has meant to me since whenever. Not anymore

To respond to the comment that the suspension is too firm and it reminds me of my old STi. Well that's just not true. It is firm and aggresive but the dampers/springs are much better matched than any stock subaru I've driven. (think modern BMW Sport firm)...waaay better than STi Kyb's HAND DOWN. Most of the members here would love it. The struts remind me of well matched set of Ohlins... Understeer? NOT. I can't find it and I've tried hard. The close steerng ratio (13 to 1) is instantly responsive ie you turn the wheel it easily changes direction. Rotates no problem. Never got that feeling with any Impreza sorry to say. This thing just kills my old STi up my favorite fast mountain roads for the sole reason it can handle high speed roads with great high speed damping. No surprises and stays settled. I can't emphasize enough how awesome it handles.

The new engine? OK yes it def' has less down low. The car comes from the factory crazy 'pig rich' for some reason and runs sub par for sure. A simple piggyback flash with a K/N has yielded close to 50-75 whp...YEP you heard that right. All documented by Vishnu's Shiv' AND Jeff at Perrin. Once flashed the low end/mid range comes on much stronger/earlier (of course not like the 2.5) and the top end much stronger and is steady with minimal drop at redline. This is how it was meant to run they say. This makes the X a much freindlier DD and a beast at the same time. Once flashed they are saying it's the most responsive 2 litre going. 0 to 60 times are now ridiculous. With the close ratio gearbox 100 will now come very fast. I have already gotten the free factory reflash to help address the rich condition (supposedly 17 more whp and feels like it). And soon a Perrin piggy back for the rest of the "free" power. ..And yes the STI would be the better DD hands down no question. There's no substitute for that extra 1/2 litre. I'll miss that and I wil def' miss the boxer sound

Gearbox? Well here's where the STi rules. For some frickin' unexplainable dumb reason Mit's decided to use only a 5 speed...???? It's a whole new 'box with beefed up triple synchros in 1,2 and 3rd gears. Great but... It simply does not compare to the STi's proven 6 speed. First time I drove it I was like where's the rest of the gears dammit! Cruising at 80 your tach says 4000. Not good for freeway people. To help I pulled the 40 series Advan A-13's ( great stock tires:$306 per tire at the 'rack) in favor of REO50A Pole Position in a 45 series and the tach dropped to 3800 rpm at 80. Better but still not STi #s. You can say it's a good track gearbox though. Nice RA style ratios.Around town and twisty to fast mountain roads are basically where the gearbox shines...track gears. I will probably opt for the 6 speed twin clutch SST next time. A reflashed version of that Evo will no doubt be faster than god

Brakes? They are ginormous Brembos. Bigger than prior gens. The thing is they come with not so good pads...terrible worst ever.. Probably the reason most magazine tests give them the lesser ratings. With good pads I believe they will be incredible. They do have a great progressive feel and are very controllable.

Recaros? no explanation here...just the best I have sat in. The rest of the interior is nice enough. Nicer than any car I've owned so far. I don't need alot. Safety? More airbags than a bingo parlor.lol. Safety rating is the reason my insurance went DOWN from my last subaru (02 bug i) Yep. The EVO is paid off so that helped.

Looks? Subjective but I really like the front grill with the IC and fogs...super aggresive unusual cross between Audi AND some kind of old BRM English F1 car. I like it. Don't ask me what i think of the new STi 'Hatch'...you don't want to hear the answer. GD ftw though.

Teh trunk is small..but the back seats are very roomy....like no other compact car. True sedan back seats. I'll take that over a small trunk any day.

The dealer I go to is very helpful. Reflashed my car and did a full inspection at 1500 no cost. They have really upped their service quality according to some of the old vets. As long as I don't do anything stupid they will cover it I believe

So why did I give away my Subaru heritage...distance freinds and tax my saving account? One word> Handling. Nothing like it. Any retarded chimp can drive this car fast and a good driver can make it do magic, I've been looking for a Turbo AWD car that handles this way for a long long time. $30,500 from Aspen Mitsubishi in LA...... I had to buy it,

danielle STi Expatriot