[Kevin]

Originally Posted by SekretSkwirl

..And yes the STI would be the better DD hands down no question. There's no substitute for that extra 1/2 litre. I'll miss that and I wil def' miss the boxer sound

It sounds like we don't disagree too much about what each car offers enthusiasts.

Reading your both makes me wish I could have both a dedicated track car and powerful and fun daily driver. I am simply unwilling to make the sacrifices I did when I was 21. Perhaps old age has caught up with me or I am being more practical these days after having owned a Tribeca.

When you are done dating that slut and you are ready to settle down with a nice down-to-earth girl, perhaps Subaru will have made some improvements in the handling area to the beloved rally champ to win you back.

[SekretSkwirl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It sounds like we don't disagree too much about what each car offers enthusiasts.

Reading your both makes me wish I could have both a dedicated track car and powerful and fun daily driver. I am simply unwilling to make the sacrifices I did when I was 21. Perhaps old age has caught up with me or I am being more practical these days after having owned a Tribeca.

When you are done dating that slut and you are ready to settle down with a nice down-to-earth girl, perhaps Subaru will have made some improvements in the handling area to the beloved rally champ to win you back.

fair analogy. Iv'e always wanted seperate cars. Compromise is never good


Good point about the cubic space of the hatch...I forgot how handy hatches can be

It was the lack of understeer that first grabbed my attention... and it didn't hurt that the stock seats are amazing.

The Stock Enkei 18"s/Advans were also a selling point

+ I was super interested in the Paddle shifters (Not available 'till June). I had driven a few manual/autos and was impressed enough to want one

The price is what finally pushed me over the edge. 30k and change (base model)

[solovus]

This is just cut and paste with my comments in bold

Originally Posted by SekretSkwirl

The new engine? OK yes it def' has less down low.

This [reflash/tuning] makes the X a much freindlier DD and a beast at the same time. Once flashed they are saying it's the most responsive 2 litre going.

..And yes the STI would be the better DD hands down no question. There's no substitute for that extra 1/2 litre. I'll miss that and I wil def' miss the boxer sound

Gearbox? Well here's where the STi rules.

Safety? More airbags than a bingo parlor.lol. Safety rating is the reason my insurance went DOWN from my last subaru (02 bug i) Yep. The EVO is paid off so that helped.
Do you have the exact same coverage? Being paid off would only matter if you dropped certain coverages.

So why did I give away my Subaru heritage...distance freinds and tax my saving account? One word> Handling.

I have to agree with Kevin, I am married and have two kids so the STi is simply more practical to me. I can't imagine going anywhere in the Evo with a family.

Just like you say a lot of the Evos problems can be cured with mods, the same can be said for the STi. Good luck finding that extra half liter with a bolt on though.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the new Evo and I'm not sleeping on it at all, but for what I am looking for the Evo is just out of the question ... that being said I think I may go test drive one instead of just looking/sitting in one.

[SekretSkwirl]

Yes..more practical. I'm lucky to be single. Teh huge backseat does help. Now if the back seats would fold down....hmm

One thing I won't miss is changing spark plugs lol. I can do on a coffee break in the Mits'. Most of the time I had to get motivated to change out subie plugs hehe

One thing of note: Mit's has changed from a belt to a chain drive. Service intervals are now much wider

[kts262]

Originally Posted by SekretSkwirl

The new engine? OK yes it def' has less down low. The car comes from the factory crazy 'pig rich' for some reason and runs sub par for sure. A simple piggyback flash with a K/N has yielded close to 50-75 whp...YEP you heard that right. All documented by Vishnu's Shiv' AND Jeff at Perrin. Once flashed the low end/mid range comes on much stronger/earlier (of course not like the 2.5) and the top end much stronger and is steady with minimal drop at redline. This is how it was meant to run they say. This makes the X a much freindlier DD and a beast at the same time. Once flashed they are saying it's the most responsive 2 litre going. 0 to 60 times are now ridiculous. With the close ratio gearbox 100 will now come very fast. I have already gotten the free factory reflash to help address the rich condition (supposedly 17 more whp and feels like it). And soon a Perrin piggy back for the rest of the "free" power. ..And yes the STI would be the better DD hands down no question. There's no substitute for that extra 1/2 litre. I'll miss that and I wil def' miss the boxer sound

Gearbox? Well here's where the STi rules. For some frickin' unexplainable dumb reason Mit's decided to use only a 5 speed...???? It's a whole new 'box with beefed up triple synchros in 1,2 and 3rd gears. Great but... It simply does not compare to the STi's proven 6 speed. First time I drove it I was like where's the rest of the gears dammit! Cruising at 80 your tach says 4000. Not good for freeway people. To help I pulled the 40 series Advan A-13's ( great stock tires:$306 per tire at the 'rack) in favor of REO50A Pole Position in a 45 series and the tach dropped to 3800 rpm at 80. Better but still not STi #s. You can say it's a good track gearbox though. Nice RA style ratios.Around town and twisty to fast mountain roads are basically where the gearbox shines...track gears. I will probably opt for the 6 speed twin clutch SST next time. A reflashed version of that Evo will no doubt be faster than god

Teh trunk is small..but the back seats are very roomy....like no other compact car. True sedan back seats. I'll take that over a small trunk any day.

So why did I give away my Subaru heritage...distance freinds and tax my saving account? One word> Handling. Nothing like it. Any retarded chimp can drive this car fast and a good driver can make it do magic, I've been looking for a Turbo AWD car that handles this way for a long long time. $30,500 from Aspen Mitsubishi in LA...... I had to buy it,

I saw that Mitsu came out with the reflash to fix the stupid rich stock tune. Someone did dyno their car before and after it and their car is now making about 15 more whp and a similar amount of torque.

If I were you I might wait a bit before getting a piggyback solution. With the options that having MIVEC on both the intake and exhaust side of things I think a full reflash will offer far more options to easily and safely extract more power from the Evo. I know ECUTek has their new Evo X software in the hands of tuners now who are testing it out, and Cobb is not far behind. A piggyback could try to tweak those settings but it's having to do it from an indirect way which may have some side effects.

Then again, the piggyback does offer you a quick way to remove it if something does go wrong and you want the car to look 'stock' again.

As for the gearbox, it's a shame that a lot of people are reporting grinding issues with it, but it seems like the same amount of people were reporting the same thing when Evos first came out. The 5 speed is awesome for things like autocrossing, track, or drag where those extra shifts really hurt you time wise, but for daily driving 80mph @ around 3800-4000rpms would probably get annoying.

I'm still disappointed by the Evo's trunk. Since this will be my only car I need a car that can be my only car and do what I need it to do while also having the level of performance I've gotten used to. When I got my 05 STi I loved it since it was a practical sports car. It was fast as hell and it could haul me, 3 friends, and our stuff around. With the Evo'x trunk almost half the size of the old STi's that makes it harder.

I'm also thinking about the times I've needed to haul things, which while not all that often, are still frequent enough that the hatch would be very handy. And a lot less of a hassle then driving an hour each way to borrow my mom's 4Runner.

I do have to admit that the new Evo really does beat the STi in price. Those dealers in CA are almost giving them away. I'm still not sure if I'm going Evo or STi for my next car but if I do go with an Evo most likely I'll be ordering one from CA and having it shipped out to me on the east coast, no one around here can touch the price, even after shipping has been added.

In the end both are great cars and you really can't go wrong with either one, it boils down to personal preference.

[fry_ed]

Originally Posted by SekretSkwirl

Evo vs STi? I can answer that with a simple 'Ill take the EVO' thank you.(just bought an 08' GSR last month) I bowed out to the Subaru world after 4 Impreza' including my '04 STI. I was in for life supposedly. The NEW Evo changed that with one test drive. First let me say that I have no idea why they call it an EVO 'cause it's a totally re-engineered car. Different everything body, motor, 60% stiffer chasis, better MIVEC valvetrain (controls intake and exaust now), superior AWD systems, suspension, bigger than prior EVO brembos (terrible stock pads though) decent quality etc. A whole new car. Personally I hated the EVO 8/9's. Hideous in my eyes...just an econo box with a wing and great motor. That's what the word EVO has meant to me since whenever. Not anymore

To respond to the comment that the suspension is too firm and it reminds me of my old STi. Well that's just not true. It is firm and aggresive but the dampers/springs are much better matched than any stock subaru I've driven. (think modern BMW Sport firm)...waaay better than STi Kyb's HAND DOWN. Most of the members here would love it. The struts remind me of well matched set of Ohlins... Understeer? NOT. I can't find it and I've tried hard. The close steerng ratio (13 to 1) is instantly responsive ie you turn the wheel it easily changes direction. Rotates no problem. Never got that feeling with any Impreza sorry to say. This thing just kills my old STi up my favorite fast mountain roads for the sole reason it can handle high speed roads with great high speed damping. No surprises and stays settled. I can't emphasize enough how awesome it handles.

The new engine? OK yes it def' has less down low. The car comes from the factory crazy 'pig rich' for some reason and runs sub par for sure. A simple piggyback flash with a K/N has yielded close to 50-75 whp...YEP you heard that right. All documented by Vishnu's Shiv' AND Jeff at Perrin. Once flashed the low end/mid range comes on much stronger/earlier (of course not like the 2.5) and the top end much stronger and is steady with minimal drop at redline. This is how it was meant to run they say. This makes the X a much freindlier DD and a beast at the same time. Once flashed they are saying it's the most responsive 2 litre going. 0 to 60 times are now ridiculous. With the close ratio gearbox 100 will now come very fast. I have already gotten the free factory reflash to help address the rich condition (supposedly 17 more whp and feels like it). And soon a Perrin piggy back for the rest of the "free" power. ..And yes the STI would be the better DD hands down no question. There's no substitute for that extra 1/2 litre. I'll miss that and I wil def' miss the boxer sound

Gearbox? Well here's where the STi rules. For some frickin' unexplainable dumb reason Mit's decided to use only a 5 speed...???? It's a whole new 'box with beefed up triple synchros in 1,2 and 3rd gears. Great but... It simply does not compare to the STi's proven 6 speed. First time I drove it I was like where's the rest of the gears dammit! Cruising at 80 your tach says 4000. Not good for freeway people. To help I pulled the 40 series Advan A-13's ( great stock tires:$306 per tire at the 'rack) in favor of REO50A Pole Position in a 45 series and the tach dropped to 3800 rpm at 80. Better but still not STi #s. You can say it's a good track gearbox though. Nice RA style ratios.Around town and twisty to fast mountain roads are basically where the gearbox shines...track gears. I will probably opt for the 6 speed twin clutch SST next time. A reflashed version of that Evo will no doubt be faster than god

Brakes? They are ginormous Brembos. Bigger than prior gens. The thing is they come with not so good pads...terrible worst ever.. Probably the reason most magazine tests give them the lesser ratings. With good pads I believe they will be incredible. They do have a great progressive feel and are very controllable.

Recaros? no explanation here...just the best I have sat in. The rest of the interior is nice enough. Nicer than any car I've owned so far. I don't need alot. Safety? More airbags than a bingo parlor.lol. Safety rating is the reason my insurance went DOWN from my last subaru (02 bug i) Yep. The EVO is paid off so that helped.

Looks? Subjective but I really like the front grill with the IC and fogs...super aggresive unusual cross between Audi AND some kind of old BRM English F1 car. I like it. Don't ask me what i think of the new STi 'Hatch'...you don't want to hear the answer. GD ftw though.

Teh trunk is small..but the back seats are very roomy....like no other compact car. True sedan back seats. I'll take that over a small trunk any day.

The dealer I go to is very helpful. Reflashed my car and did a full inspection at 1500 no cost. They have really upped their service quality according to some of the old vets. As long as I don't do anything stupid they will cover it I believe

So why did I give away my Subaru heritage...distance freinds and tax my saving account? One word> Handling. Nothing like it. Any retarded chimp can drive this car fast and a good driver can make it do magic, I've been looking for a Turbo AWD car that handles this way for a long long time. $30,500 from Aspen Mitsubishi in LA...... I had to buy it,

danielle STi Expatriot

Hate to say it, but I AGREE with everything you said. Long sweepers are AMAZING in that car. The X also felt torquey to me in a straight line (must've been reflashed already). I also loved the little options you get with the SSS package.... Oh, the sound you get when you let off the throttle quickly at 4k RPM, after going WOT, sweeeeet. Similar to the SRT-Fst4r. No, it was neat, seriously.

Oh yeah, one thing I definitely don't agree with you on though.... the '04STi is still a more fun car overall! ...which is why we stuck with it

[harilan]

Originally Posted by kts262

I do have to admit that the new Evo really does beat the STi in price. Those dealers in CA are almost giving them away. I'm still not sure if I'm going Evo or STi for my next car but if I do go with an Evo most likely I'll be ordering one from CA and having it shipped out to me on the east coast, no one around here can touch the price, even after shipping has been added.

In the end both are great cars and you really can't go wrong with either one, it boils down to personal preference.

Have you ever look around to ship car from West Coast to East Coast?
You will have to pay between $3-4K for shipping plus insurance (if you want) and I am not sure if cars for CA have differ. tune because 91 oct gas...

[kts262]

Originally Posted by harilan

Have you ever look around to ship car from West Coast to East Coast?
You will have to pay between $3-4K for shipping plus insurance (if you want) and I am not sure if cars for CA have differ. tune because 91 oct gas...

The people South Coast Mitsu use seem to charge about $800 for a car shipped from CA to the east coast and that includes insurance. It may be a bit more if you want it to be top loaded.

I'll have to look into CA vs/ everywhere else tune but so far it appears that it's the same tune regardless of where the car is in the US.

Even if it does cost $3k it might be cheaper than getting it locally, some dealers here still think the Evo is worth a $2-4k markup over MSRP.

Another option, I would fly out there for $150, and then drive it back myself for gas + tolls + hotel and have a nice long trip breaking it in.

[SekretSkwirl]

To address the piggy back point. One thing Mit's is doing now is really watching for how many times you've reflashed your ECU. A new program 'counts' all the reflashes and comes up on the computer every time you go in for service...pretty scary when your trying to protect a "warranty". Sure I'd love to go with full EM solutions...just can't risk it.

About the grinding issue. Well I just spent 1500 miles breaking in the whole car and pretty much double clutched every frickin' shift...literally. I had read some stories of grinding and wanted no part of it. Well my gearbox has never grinded once...shift smooths ( a bit notchy. not as bad as my '04 STi but still notchy) and buttery. This notchy thing doesn't bother me that much after living with subies for so long. I'm sure those grinding issues were caused partly by drivers. They are EVO owners for gods sake lol.

Note: I'll be changing the fluid to Amsoil Synchro' soon. People are getting much better shifting with it.

I promised myself this time I' wouldn't compromise. Dammit I wanted a great handling car. So tired of suspension mods...just sick of taxing my checking account. This car comes off the lot competitive thank you! The one thing I do want is the Bilstein/Eibach package off of the 6 spd. MR. Those are the real deal. DER Motorsports has promised me their set when they get the project MR car...

So cal dealers are giving them away. One dealer has sold over 200 units already! I flew down to LA from RENO and drove it back. Cost? $335total.... and a nice drive back

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm rationalizing too much. Trying to be honest since I love subies. If they hadn't offered me the car for that 30k I problably would not have bought it. 2 months of thought and conflict...that pushed me right over the brink lol. I'm still in shock every time I walk in the garage and see that car. It's like WTH I bought and EVO!??lol

[The Sim]

Awesome write-up. Thanks... After owning a 2002 WRX for 6 years, 120k miles, my faith in the "fraternity" of Subaru is pretty strong. People ask, 'did you consider the evo?'. I haven't driven one, but this pretty much sums up all my thoughts on the issues. Still eagerly waiting for the day my new 08 STI arrives..

[kts262]

Originally Posted by SekretSkwirl

To address the piggy back point. One thing Mit's is doing now is really watching for how many times you've reflashed your ECU. A new program 'counts' all the reflashes and comes up on the computer every time you go in for service...pretty scary when your trying to protect a "warranty". Sure I'd love to go with full EM solutions...just can't risk it.

About the grinding issue. Well I just spent 1500 miles breaking in the whole car and pretty much double clutched every frickin' shift...literally. I had read some stories of grinding and wanted no part of it. Well my gearbox has never grinded once...shift smooths ( a bit notchy. not as bad as my '04 STi but still notchy) and buttery. This notchy thing doesn't bother me that much after living with subies for so long. I'm sure those grinding issues were caused partly by drivers. They are EVO owners for gods sake lol.

Note: I'll be changing the fluid to Amsoil Synchro' soon. People are getting much better shifting with it.

I promised myself this time I' wouldn't compromise. Dammit I wanted a great handling car. So tired of suspension mods...just sick of taxing my checking account. This car comes off the lot competitive thank you! The one thing I do want is the Bilstein/Eibach package off of the 6 spd. MR. Those are the real deal. DER Motorsports has promised me their set when they get the project MR car...

So cal dealers are giving them away. One dealer has sold over 200 units already! I flew down to LA from RENO and drove it back. Cost? $335total.... and a nice drive back

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm rationalizing too much. Trying to be honest since I love subies. If they hadn't offered me the car for that 30k I problably would not have bought it. 2 months of thought and conflict...that pushed me right over the brink lol. I'm still in shock every time I walk in the garage and see that car. It's like WTH I bought and EVO!??lol

I thought I had mentioned, but maybe I forgot, about the issue of needing to quickly revert back to stock and making it harder for the dealer to notice mods. After having a UTEC on my car and realizing it's limitations when it comes to things like MIVEC on the Mitsu or AVCS on the STi, and what a full reflash can do, plus the lack of piggyback manufacturer support it's hard to justify it. Hopefully Shiv and the other Evo piggyback people don't abandon the Evo market like most of them did with the Subie world.

After reading the mixed reviews of the X tranny on EvoM I was also coming to the conclusion that it was probably user error. After spending a bit of time on EvoM I quickly missed my safe and sane world of NASIOC/IWSTI.

That MR suspension should be amazing. I can't wait to see how it works on your car. I looked at the MR and liked the suspension and the idea of the SST, but seeing how you have to replace the entire unit if something goes wrong, the cost of that scared me.

I'm not planning to mod my next car like I did with the STi so I think I would have less to worry about, but still with my luck I'd prob find a way to fry the SST @ 61k miles and be screwed.

[The Sim]

$30k for an evo x

[Rootus]

Originally Posted by SekretSkwirl

Iv'e always wanted seperate cars. Compromise is never good

You say that like you are not compromising . The Evo is hardly a dedicated track machine. If you compare it to the STI it may look a lot more raw and performance oriented, but that's because you chose a very narrow scale.

One bonus is that the Evo seems to be selling poorly, so you can now pick up a fully loaded GSR -- SSS, Aero, and Navi -- for a bit under $35K. That's under invoice, and a fair bit less than a loaded STI would cost. In much the same way as the '08 STI, the '08 Evo seems to be attracting a new demographic, and the legacy Evo owners aren't exactly flocking to the X. It will be interesting to see in a couple of years whether or not Subaru and Mitsubishi were right to soften the cars up so much. Only time will tell.

Good luck either way, I don't think there is a wrong choice! Or, go to the dark side and get a Z06 . Perhaps get a true track whore, the Ariel Atom. These would be better from the "no compromise" point of view .

[SekretSkwirl]

Yep 30k and change. An offer I couldn't refuse. They have good resale as well so when it comes time for selling it might not be not so bad.

I'd like to say that I don't like call it an E V O. To me that's the old car. The one that was a lancer. The one that if you take the wing off of it looks even more fugly..Like waaay fugly no class. New X has some class at least and miles more than those 'Evos'

This is a brand new model...front to rear. Virtually no parts are interchangeble short of the rear brake pads

I don't plan to go all out modding for power. I'll keep in in STX or Mod' and just have fun with the handling. Give me some tight windy mountain roads and Ill drive it forever

[harilan]

I also was considered EVO X so I went to Mitsu dealership. Car for my taste looks much better than STI, more roomier, huge brakes. But what turned me off: Quality. Door handles have so much play I thought they will come off car in few months. All knobs levers in the car look and feel so flimsy like not a big corporation made this car but some home based shop in North of China.
Trunk maybe same size as Miata's and no pass through.
Plus I wanted to buy SST model so my wife who manual gear box chalenged could drive too/ But seats are not hight adjustable so she would need pillow to drive EVO When I ask sales person if seats high adjustable his reply was: "This is a sport car and seats in sport car not high adjustable" ....ok then...
Than I stopped buy at Subaru dealership checked quality of that car... Now I know why this car based price starts almost $3K higher than EVO.
Well maybe I am bias, I drive for 5 years wagon WRX once I helped my friend to bring his 42 inch TV home. Yes I am little bit envy that EVO pulls on me when we get on straight line at Summit Point race track but hey there is also Cobra's with 520 HP that me and EVO just getting fumes from when press the gas pedal.
I love to have hatchback utility with AWD and 300 HP, I believe thicker sway bars front and rear will make STI shine at the track too