2008 STI vs. 2008 Mazdaspeed3

Stedenko · 04-10-2008, 09:14 AM

A few of us kind of hijacked another thread with this topic so here's a new thread.

It turns out that I'm not the only one that is cross-shopping the STI with the MS3. It's not because the MS3 is necessarily comparable, but up here in Canada it's around $15K cheaper to get the MS3.

So if anyone has any thoughts, here's the place. I couldn't find much on this topic because the MS3 is usually compared to the WRX. I'm about to buy one or the other, and I'm leaning hard towards the STI.

Stedanko.

twigg107 · 04-10-2008, 09:24 AM

Not really comparable..... ms3 is fwd. Its still a nice car though.

**RallySportDirect** · 04-10-2008, 09:25 AM

The MS3 is a very capable car. With TBE, and a re flash its as fast as STi's.
The only complaint I have heard is the car makes to much power to put threw 2WD.

GilMikalian · 04-10-2008, 09:26 AM

I didn't cross shop the MS3 for 2 reasons...FWD and if I was considering an MS3, I would cross shop with a WRX since they're MUCH more comparable in terms of performance and price.

rmo55c · 04-10-2008, 09:31 AM

ms3's are quick little beasts. Especially when you start modding. The problem, as noted above, is that you can't get traction with the extra power. There has been a lot of time spent trying to find offset wheels and wider tires to fit, but so far, there hasn't been much luck. I know cobb has done it, but it was tough.

That's why the boost is restricted on 1st and 2nd gears in the ms3.

RPI-STi · 04-10-2008, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GilMikalian

I didn't cross shop the MS3 for 2 reasons...FWD and if I was considering an MS3, I would cross shop with a WRX since they're MUCH more comparable in terms of performance and price.

Ok, not trying to start and arguement here. I think the gentleman in the other thread and I made up and are friends now

I think the MS3 blows away the WRX in performance. The WRX only makes 224 hp and has more drivetrain loss. I think the MS3 is closer (although not equal) to the STi in performance. Definitely closer to the WRX in price. I think the MS3 is causing a lot of people, such as the starter of the thread, to justify the extra $$$. FWD has its limitations, especially with the stock engine mounts and the thin stock wheels/tires on the MS3. But $15k is a lot of mods and pocket money. AWD made my decision. But man do i miss the gas mileage of my old MS3

speedball3 · 04-10-2008, 09:32 AM

I'm really curious about this too. If you compare specs from various magazines, you'll see that besides acceleration from a stop (0-60, 1/4mi times), both cars are closely matched. Slalom speed, skidpad G's, braking distances (60-0), you name it. I think InsideLine did a review on both a stock Mazdaspeed3 and a slightly modded MS3 (CAI, TBE, wheels&tires), which adds even more info into the mix. Apparently the CAI actually does add ~30hp and the stock BOV leaks at stock boost levels, so an aftermarket bov actually does "add" power (or rather, gives you back power you already had). Some strange issues ab the MS3 though: weak motor mounts and apparently some owners have bad turbos (leaking seals or something). Plus, I believe 08 will be the MS3's last year of production.... which is nice if you like exclusivity, but not so great for aftermarket support or for spare parts later on down the line. Curious to see what others' opinions are on this issue.

Stedenko · 04-10-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GilMikalian

I didn't cross shop the MS3 for 2 reasons...FWD and if I was considering an MS3, I would cross shop with a WRX since they're MUCH more comparable in terms of performance and price.

I don't like FWD either. For some reason the FWD makes it way less interesting to me, but I drove it a couple of times and it was really fast. The 263HP with 280 ft/lbs of torque goes a long way in such a little car.

The MS3 beats the WRX in magazine comparisons, but not by a huge amount.

The main reason to cross shop them is price.

pisymbol · 04-10-2008, 09:36 AM

The problem is FWD. I agree that with mods, the MS3 is as fast as the STI stock. I was told (read can't tell which) that Mazda detuned the motor because it was FWD to begin with....

I don't agree that the MS3 handles as well as the STI (again FWD has its limitations). I think in terms of performance there is no car under 30k that is as nice as the MS3.

JWA · 04-10-2008, 09:45 AM

I think it's a valid consideration. We're well beyond buying for basic transportation, so it's reasonable to look at the various options in order to weigh out which you like better and which is worth the extra expense. The STI and MS3 are both the highest level of development of their respective models, so they make perfect sense as possible considerations if you are looking for an enthusiast-focused car and haven't precluded one or the other for specific technical considerations that are important to you.

**RallySportDirect** · 04-10-2008, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWA

I think it's a valid consideration. We're well beyond buying for basic transportation, so it's reasonable to look at the various options in order to weigh out which you like better and which is worth the extra expense. The STI and MS3 are both the highest level of development of there respective models, so they make perfect sense as possible considerations if you are looking for an enthusiast-focused car and haven't precluded one or the other for specific technical considerations that are important to you.

Well stated.
Go and check out both cars. Drive them and make up your mind.
The MS3 does not feel as nice inside, but the 15K is also a large chunk of change.
So it all comes down to, "is it worth it to me"

rmo55c · 04-10-2008, 09:53 AM

my best friend drives an ms3. He has a CAI and nothing else on it yet (waiting for the ap). Trust me, they are fast and they can handle. However, mazda did detune from the factory in the fact that they put a boost restriction on the first two gears. The amount of power going to the front wheels is just too great. Unfortunately there is not a clear fix for this. Even Cobb has acknowledged that upping the boost a little is fine in the first two gears, but beyond a slight bump in boost the driver will not be able to keep any traction.

Check out the maps that Cobb is intending to release with the ms3 as well. There's a map for a mazdaspeed sri, tbe, and fmic in the works. There will be serious boosts in power there. However, the traction will still limit the ms3 in the first two gears at least.

So can it be fast? Hell yeah, and it has a lot of potential. Can you apply that quickness off the line? Not so much without major modification to the wheel wells, suspension, etc.

Oh and an ms3 cannot handle in the snow period. Even with some good all- seasons and only an inch of snow on the road, my friend still could not make it out of his driveway and up a hill (and no it was not the driver, I watched and tried too).

I like the car, but its not for me. But it has serious potential for people who like it. Check out what cobb recently did in a time attack with it. They blew away all other numbers.

monk · 04-10-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stedenko

A few of us kind of hijacked another thread with this topic so here's a new thread.

It turns out that I'm not the only one that is cross-shopping the STI with the MS3. It's not because the MS3 is necessarily comparable, but up here in Canada it's around $15K cheaper to get the MS3.

So if anyone has any thoughts, here's the place. I couldn't find much on this topic because the MS3 is usually compared to the WRX. I'm about to buy one or the other, and I'm leaning hard towards the STI.

Stedanko.

dude, you live in CND? this should be a no-brainer... get an awd car. if money is an issue, get a wrx.

waktasz · 04-10-2008, 10:09 AM

I had a 04 Mazda3 (not speed) and that was the biggest reason I got my 05 WRX. No ability to get anywhere in the snow, even just an inch. I liked the interior of the Mazda better than my 05 or 06 WRX...but the 08 STI is about equal.

upncummr · 04-10-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waktasz

I had a 04 Mazda3 (not speed) and that was the biggest reason I got my 05 WRX. No ability to get anywhere in the snow, even just an inch. I liked the interior of the Mazda better than my 05 or 06 WRX...but the 08 STI is about equal.

Just curious - were you using snow tires in your attempts to get around in the snow? Was the problem related to the open diff on the regular Mazda3?

I've been considering a MS3 as a daily driver/winter beater. But obviously if it's too severely restricted by snow, it wouldn't make sense.

Gary

04-10-2008, 09:14 AM	#1
Stedenko Junior STI Driver Car: DGM '08 STI Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 152 Join Date: Feb 2008 Trader Rating: (0)	2008 STI vs. 2008 Mazdaspeed3 A few of us kind of hijacked another thread with this topic so here's a new thread. It turns out that I'm not the only one that is cross-shopping the STI with the MS3. It's not because the MS3 is necessarily comparable, but up here in Canada it's around $15K cheaper to get the MS3. So if anyone has any thoughts, here's the place. I couldn't find much on this topic because the MS3 is usually compared to the WRX. I'm about to buy one or the other, and I'm leaning hard towards the STI. Stedanko. This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

04-10-2008, 09:24 AM	#2
twigg107 Spec C Club Car: 08 DGM STI Fav Mod: Me..... Location: Vancouver, Wa Posts: 1,341 Join Date: Jun 2006 Trader Rating: (1)	Re: 2008 STI vs. 2008 Mazdaspeed3 Not really comparable..... ms3 is fwd. Its still a nice car though.

04-10-2008, 09:25 AM	#3
RallySportDirect Authorized Vendor Car: STI's ;) Fav Mod: Coolest Vendor Ever Location: SLC, UT Posts: 1,548 Join Date: Aug 2003 Trader Rating: (5)	Re: 2008 STI vs. 2008 Mazdaspeed3 The MS3 is a very capable car. With TBE, and a re flash its as fast as STi's. The only complaint I have heard is the car makes to much power to put threw 2WD.

04-10-2008, 09:26 AM	#4
GilMikalian Silver Member Car: '08 DGM STI w/BBS Fav Mod: Britax Roundabout Location: L.A. Posts: 712 Join Date: Jan 2008 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: 2008 STI vs. 2008 Mazdaspeed3 I didn't cross shop the MS3 for 2 reasons...FWD and if I was considering an MS3, I would cross shop with a WRX since they're MUCH more comparable in terms of performance and price.

04-10-2008, 09:31 AM	#5
rmo55c Professional STI Racer Car: 05 WRB STi Fav Mod: I Heart Boobs Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 846 Join Date: Dec 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: 2008 STI vs. 2008 Mazdaspeed3 ms3's are quick little beasts. Especially when you start modding. The problem, as noted above, is that you can't get traction with the extra power. There has been a lot of time spent trying to find offset wheels and wider tires to fit, but so far, there hasn't been much luck. I know cobb has done it, but it was tough. That's why the boost is restricted on 1st and 2nd gears in the ms3.

04-10-2008, 09:32 AM	#7
speedball3 Amateur STI Driver Car: 97 Civic 4dr Fav Mod: Coming Soon Location: SoCal Posts: 48 Join Date: Mar 2008 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: 2008 STI vs. 2008 Mazdaspeed3 I'm really curious about this too. If you compare specs from various magazines, you'll see that besides acceleration from a stop (0-60, 1/4mi times), both cars are closely matched. Slalom speed, skidpad G's, braking distances (60-0), you name it. I think InsideLine did a review on both a stock Mazdaspeed3 and a slightly modded MS3 (CAI, TBE, wheels&tires), which adds even more info into the mix. Apparently the CAI actually does add ~30hp and the stock BOV leaks at stock boost levels, so an aftermarket bov actually does "add" power (or rather, gives you back power you already had). Some strange issues ab the MS3 though: weak motor mounts and apparently some owners have bad turbos (leaking seals or something). Plus, I believe 08 will be the MS3's last year of production.... which is nice if you like exclusivity, but not so great for aftermarket support or for spare parts later on down the line. Curious to see what others' opinions are on this issue.

04-10-2008, 09:36 AM	#9
pisymbol Junior STI Driver Car: WRB 08 WRX STI Fav Mod: Coming Soon Posts: 153 Join Date: Feb 2008 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: 2008 STI vs. 2008 Mazdaspeed3 The problem is FWD. I agree that with mods, the MS3 is as fast as the STI stock. I was told (read can't tell which) that Mazda detuned the motor because it was FWD to begin with.... I don't agree that the MS3 handles as well as the STI (again FWD has its limitations). I think in terms of performance there is no car under 30k that is as nice as the MS3.

04-10-2008, 09:45 AM	#10
JWA STI Driver Posts: 266 Join Date: Mar 2007 Trader Rating: (3)	Re: 2008 STI vs. 2008 Mazdaspeed3 I think it's a valid consideration. We're well beyond buying for basic transportation, so it's reasonable to look at the various options in order to weigh out which you like better and which is worth the extra expense. The STI and MS3 are both the highest level of development of their respective models, so they make perfect sense as possible considerations if you are looking for an enthusiast-focused car and haven't precluded one or the other for specific technical considerations that are important to you. Last edited by JWA : 04-10-2008 at 11:34 AM.

04-10-2008, 09:53 AM	#12
rmo55c Professional STI Racer Car: 05 WRB STi Fav Mod: I Heart Boobs Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 846 Join Date: Dec 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: 2008 STI vs. 2008 Mazdaspeed3 my best friend drives an ms3. He has a CAI and nothing else on it yet (waiting for the ap). Trust me, they are fast and they can handle. However, mazda did detune from the factory in the fact that they put a boost restriction on the first two gears. The amount of power going to the front wheels is just too great. Unfortunately there is not a clear fix for this. Even Cobb has acknowledged that upping the boost a little is fine in the first two gears, but beyond a slight bump in boost the driver will not be able to keep any traction. Check out the maps that Cobb is intending to release with the ms3 as well. There's a map for a mazdaspeed sri, tbe, and fmic in the works. There will be serious boosts in power there. However, the traction will still limit the ms3 in the first two gears at least. So can it be fast? Hell yeah, and it has a lot of potential. Can you apply that quickness off the line? Not so much without major modification to the wheel wells, suspension, etc. Oh and an ms3 cannot handle in the snow period. Even with some good all- seasons and only an inch of snow on the road, my friend still could not make it out of his driveway and up a hill (and no it was not the driver, I watched and tried too). I like the car, but its not for me. But it has serious potential for people who like it. Check out what cobb recently did in a time attack with it. They blew away all other numbers.

04-10-2008, 10:09 AM	#14
waktasz Professional STI Racer Car: 08 STI Family Wagon Fav Mod: Autotrader.com Location: Philly Posts: 731 Join Date: Jan 2006 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: 2008 STI vs. 2008 Mazdaspeed3 I had a 04 Mazda3 (not speed) and that was the biggest reason I got my 05 WRX. No ability to get anywhere in the snow, even just an inch. I liked the interior of the Mazda better than my 05 or 06 WRX...but the 08 STI is about equal.