Anyone else worried 2009 Model will have drastic changes?

Kaneda · 02-20-2008, 06:55 PM

As I type this, I have a 2008 White/Gold STi on order. I am extremely worried Subaru is going to vastly improve the 2009 model. I know most of you own a 2008 and will defend the purchase and not want this to be true (I'd do the same thing), but the writing is on the wall guys. Bottom line is this: The STi is an enthusiasts car. Enthusiasts read car magazines. Every car magazine has rated the new STi poorly against the EVO and R32. This will dramatically hurt Subbies changes of selling this car...So like it or not, I feel like 2008 buyers will be screwed. Here's why.

When the EVO and STi came out in 2004, the magazines loved both and said it was a coin toss depending on your driving style. Unfortunately in 2008, the press love the EVO (mainly because of handling) and are lukewarm/unimpressed with the STi (because of softer suspension, lighter steering and a general disonnect from the road). Basically, Subaru's goal to apeal to the masses has backfired and the press is slamming them for it. If you don't deliver on the handling people expect from an STi, you are in big, big trouble. Because it is the enthusiat that needs to love it first for they will spread the word to the more casual buyer that it's a "MUST" own.

We spent so much time worried about the "looks" of the new STi because we just assumed they would never mess around with the driving charachteristics we adored and loved. Sure, it grips better and slaloms faster, but that is not what made an STi special...It was the feel, the connection to the road, the inspirering nature of the car....Almost every single magazine reports those qualities missing in the 08. While people on this board may want to deny this, how can all of these pubs come to the same conclusion? How can they all be wrong?

So for 2009, Subaru has to make changes. They just do...Last time around they didn't arrive in the marketplace with so little support. You think they are just going to accept finishing behind the Mitsu in every single test conducted? I mean, the answer is already in producton...It's their JDM car...

Here's what really sucks...Business men and marketing assholes made the decision to tame the US STi because they let numbers guide them...not passion, not technology, not innovation, no, it was cold, blunt market research numbers that, if followed, were supposed to increase sales. It's failing. Now they have a public relations nightmare on their hands because they need to uprade the car immediately to restore glory to the badge, but in doing so, they will ostracize the people that love the badge the most, the early adopters and 08 buyers.

Guys, I work in marketing and I see decisions like this happen everyday. Customers get screwed because of corporate greed. Softening up the STi hasn't increased Subbie's sales, it has just sent customers to Mistubishi and VW. And the changes that will take place to this car will be dramatic, they have to be. It's finishing last in every test. I think it's smart to wait to 09...the writing is on the wall and best to wait 6 months than to own an STi the year Subaru got it wrong...What do you guys think? And sorry to any of you 08 owners, it's nothing personal, but you must be worried to see what's i store for 09.

My last point is this...You pay 40K for a Subaru, shouldn't the aforementioned be the last thing you want to worry about? Peace of mind leads to customer loyalty...I wouldn't say Subbie has achieved that with the 08, not even close. You think people buying the newest M3 are having discussions right now about how the 09 model needs better seats, better tires, better steering feel, better handing response, better tune...etc...?

whtwrx1991 · 02-20-2008, 06:57 PM

Your Preachin to the choir!

Rootus · 02-20-2008, 07:02 PM

I wouldn't worry about it, really. Subaru tends to make a few minor improvements each year and a facelift every two years. If you wait around trying to get the perfect STI, you'll wait forever.

Also, go read the EvoM X forum. You have to be a hardcore Evo lover to put up with the crap the X owners are going through with their new cars. Personally, I'd be pissed. The STI may be slightly softer and a whole lot more homely looking, but it's got Subaru quality behind it and the performance is close enough that only magazine racers will ever care.

Honestly, light mods will make the '08 STI just as tight, just as obnoxious as you ever want it to be. And with people like Sponaugle getting 375 ft-lbs of torque to the wheels with just a TBE and tune, who could ask for anything more? That's something around 60 ft-lbs more than a similarly modded Evo X, BTW

.

In any case I don't think Subaru will significantly alter the STI for at least three or four more years, even if sales are soft. They're committed to this model for that long at least.

denver133 · 02-20-2008, 07:03 PM

As someone who is looking to buy a 08 Sti, I enjoy the car...But you are right...something is missing. But, from what I am also hearing is that STG 1 will blow you away! Whats wrong with that? Nothing. As for the drive....I liked it. I liked it alot. My test drive was 25 miles in pouring rain. I wanted to have fun and I tested it. Will there be improvements...Sure. Probably fix the steering like they did from 04 to 05. Maybe also bring the BBS's as a standard. But like most of us enthusiests, we replace them when we can.

Kaneda · 02-20-2008, 07:08 PM

Rootus,

I think you are dismissing these poor reviews as "not a big deal"...but didn't Subaru make this car softer to increase sales? Yet you state they will remain behind a car even if sales are soft...Believe me, that's not how a corporation thinks.

Also, the last thing I want to be told as a car buyer is with "light mods" I can restore what's missing from previous models. 95% of owners DO NOT MOD THEIR CARS...I know the car can be modified, but I shouldn't have to modify a 40K Rally Car to behave like a rally car because they are trying to sell it to family guys first.

Kaneda · 02-20-2008, 07:12 PM

Denver, again, why should I have to upgrade to STAGE 1, void warranty, to be blown away...For 40K, Subaru should have staged 2 this thing and gave us the handling to blow everyone away (with a warranty too)

Here's what I don't get...they fix the steering from 2004 to 2005...and then get it wrong again in 2008? Seriously, do dingbats have the final word over at Subaru or what? You just can't build a loyal following if you get too much **** wrong...not with what the competition offers for 40K.

USNSTI · 02-20-2008, 07:14 PM

A lot of what you said is true. Subaru may be finishing last in a lot of head to head tests. Maybe it is not quite the enthusiasts car it once was. If SOA lost sales (to Mitsu) they would probably think hard about making changes. One thing is missing though. Do you have anything to back up your claim that 08's aren't selling? I have seen nothing. Other than saying "well they had like four cars on the lot at my local dealer" or "so and so got his for $500 below invoice.... Fire sale!" is there anything to support your claims of soft sales? We are all waiting....

MaStA · 02-20-2008, 07:15 PM

I do agree with the OP's post 100% and I haven't even drove the car. I drove previous years and they were great and fun to drive. I just think for the money you aren't really getting many gains especially after they boosted the price as well. If it had the recaro seats with heating, push button start (kinda like the smart key in the Mitsubishi, and a better sound system maybe...(the Evo has a rockford fosgate or whatever) it would be worth it. I am hoping within maybe the next two years we will see a few of those nice features here in the states. Almost all new cars are going to the keyless and going with the little remote that you just keep in your pocket and use little rubber buttons on the handle to unlock the door and a permanent key or button to start the car. Also another minor thing I noticed that I love about Nissan's (and maybe other brands have done it) not only having the front driver window have a auto down feature, but if you pull up the extra click it makes the window go all the way up without holding it...not only on the driver's side, but the passenger as well.

Don't get me wrong because I really like the new STI and was about to buy one because my car got stolen, but I am glad since I have my car back that I can wait at least another year or two and at least have the paint chipping issue resolved.

I can't speak of performance on the 08 since I never tried to drive one just to put miles on it, but at least the nice fancy little features that make a difference when putting out that kinda dough are lacking. I look forward to seeing a BMW 135 in person as I think most of us wouldn't mind checking them out once they hit the dealers.

Jared

MaStA · 02-20-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaneda

Denver, again, why should I have to upgrade to STAGE 1, void warranty, to be blown away...For 40K, Subaru should have staged 2 this thing and gave us the handling to blow everyone away (with a warranty too)

Here's what I don't get...they fix the steering from 2004 to 2005...and then get it wrong again in 2008? Seriously, do dingbats have the final word over at Subaru or what? You just can't build a loyal following if you get too much **** wrong...not with what the competition offers for 40K.

Well from what I hear they screwed the mapping up on the previous year as well running too lean and the same has happened with the 08 so much as the tuners are saying it is unsafe to even drive the car how it comes...

BTW I read a e-mail on a forum from a Subaru employee stating nothing voids your warranty except taking the car out of the country. The only time you can void it with aftermarket parts is if the cause can be directly related to what you have modded. Not saying a remap won't void it because they probably would try blaming the remap for the fault, but you can always flash it back prior to going to the dealer I imagine.

CarmG993 · 02-20-2008, 07:20 PM

I too think they could have done much better, but then again I am not a car manufacturer nor do I understand why 'they do what they do.'
I love the exterior of the '08 STI, and I am hoping that any mechanical issues that were in the '07 are non existent, but the interior is not that of a $35k - $40k car.
I stay w/ my '07 (for now) and see what the '09's bring.

Kaneda · 02-20-2008, 07:20 PM

I don't have specific sales numbers, but my dealer in NY had no orders in when I placed mine last week. In 2004, at the same dealership the waiting list was as long as my reasons for liking American Gladiators...Yeah, that long. Now of course that was the arrival of rally cars to our shores and a lot of that hunger has been satiated...But come one, you can't deny that poor reviews will impact sales...The media has more influence than you may realize.

whtwrx1991 · 02-20-2008, 07:22 PM

I'm very worried about this. I stayed up all night last night thinking about the aspects of mechanical eng. and what the cause and effects of changing the 2008 STI would mean to people in The Repulic of Chinca.

USNSTI · 02-20-2008, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaneda

I don't have specific sales numbers, but my dealer in NY had no orders in when I placed mine last week. In 2004, at the same dealership the waiting list was as long as my reasons for liking American Gladiators...Yeah, that long. Now of course that was the arrival of rally cars to our shores and a lot of that hunger has been satiated...But come one, you can't deny that poor reviews will impact sales...The media has more influence than you may realize.

Like I said, stories from your local dealership do not equal hard sales figures. If sales really are down then SOA will be taking a long hard look. If they are not, then I doubt anything will change. Did you ask the dealer how many preorders he had for an 07 two months after the 07's came out? I bet it was zero. I'm just sayin'.

MaStA · 02-20-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whtwrx1991

I'm very worried about this. I stayed up all night last night thinking about the aspects of mechanical eng. and what the cause and effects of changing the 2008 STI would mean to people in The Repulic of Chinca.

Your comments are worthless and add nothing to this discussion and your obnoxious post at the beginning of the thread is childish. Do we really need that font size?

MaStA · 02-20-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USNSTI

Like I said, stories from your local dealership do not equal hard sales figures. If sales really are down then SOA will be taking a long hard look. If they are not, then I doubt anything will change. Did you ask the dealer how many preorders he had for an 07 two months after the 07's came out? I bet it was zero. I'm just sayin'.

Well I don't think the magazines are going to affect too much, but that paint chip issue seems to be affecting some people's decisions on whether to buy or not. A lot of people don't read forums or magazines and just go buy what they want. It seems to me that older people that want a comfortable ride, but a bit of motor will be more open to purchasing and STI now, but whether that is for the good or bad will have to be determined by Subaru after some time I agree.

02-20-2008, 06:55 PM	#1
Kaneda Junior STI Driver Car: White 08 WRX STi Fav Mod: Coming Soon Posts: 70 Join Date: Feb 2008 Trader Rating: (0)	Anyone else worried 2009 Model will have drastic changes? As I type this, I have a 2008 White/Gold STi on order. I am extremely worried Subaru is going to vastly improve the 2009 model. I know most of you own a 2008 and will defend the purchase and not want this to be true (I'd do the same thing), but the writing is on the wall guys. Bottom line is this: The STi is an enthusiasts car. Enthusiasts read car magazines. Every car magazine has rated the new STi poorly against the EVO and R32. This will dramatically hurt Subbies changes of selling this car...So like it or not, I feel like 2008 buyers will be screwed. Here's why. When the EVO and STi came out in 2004, the magazines loved both and said it was a coin toss depending on your driving style. Unfortunately in 2008, the press love the EVO (mainly because of handling) and are lukewarm/unimpressed with the STi (because of softer suspension, lighter steering and a general disonnect from the road). Basically, Subaru's goal to apeal to the masses has backfired and the press is slamming them for it. If you don't deliver on the handling people expect from an STi, you are in big, big trouble. Because it is the enthusiat that needs to love it first for they will spread the word to the more casual buyer that it's a "MUST" own. We spent so much time worried about the "looks" of the new STi because we just assumed they would never mess around with the driving charachteristics we adored and loved. Sure, it grips better and slaloms faster, but that is not what made an STi special...It was the feel, the connection to the road, the inspirering nature of the car....Almost every single magazine reports those qualities missing in the 08. While people on this board may want to deny this, how can all of these pubs come to the same conclusion? How can they all be wrong? So for 2009, Subaru has to make changes. They just do...Last time around they didn't arrive in the marketplace with so little support. You think they are just going to accept finishing behind the Mitsu in every single test conducted? I mean, the answer is already in producton...It's their JDM car... Here's what really sucks...Business men and marketing assholes made the decision to tame the US STi because they let numbers guide them...not passion, not technology, not innovation, no, it was cold, blunt market research numbers that, if followed, were supposed to increase sales. It's failing. Now they have a public relations nightmare on their hands because they need to uprade the car immediately to restore glory to the badge, but in doing so, they will ostracize the people that love the badge the most, the early adopters and 08 buyers. Guys, I work in marketing and I see decisions like this happen everyday. Customers get screwed because of corporate greed. Softening up the STi hasn't increased Subbie's sales, it has just sent customers to Mistubishi and VW. And the changes that will take place to this car will be dramatic, they have to be. It's finishing last in every test. I think it's smart to wait to 09...the writing is on the wall and best to wait 6 months than to own an STi the year Subaru got it wrong...What do you guys think? And sorry to any of you 08 owners, it's nothing personal, but you must be worried to see what's i store for 09. My last point is this...You pay 40K for a Subaru, shouldn't the aforementioned be the last thing you want to worry about? Peace of mind leads to customer loyalty...I wouldn't say Subbie has achieved that with the 08, not even close. You think people buying the newest M3 are having discussions right now about how the 09 model needs better seats, better tires, better steering feel, better handing response, better tune...etc...? This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad. Last edited by Kaneda : 02-20-2008 at 07:01 PM.

02-20-2008, 06:57 PM	#2
whtwrx1991 Junior STI Driver Car: 05 Subaru WRX STI Fav Mod: COBB TUNN Location: Indy Posts: 104 Join Date: May 2007 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Anyone else worried 2009 Model will have drastic changes? Your Preachin to the choir!

02-20-2008, 07:02 PM	#3
Rootus S204 Racer Location: Africa Posts: 2,772 Join Date: Sep 2005 Trader Rating: (1)	Re: Anyone else worried 2009 Model will have drastic changes? I wouldn't worry about it, really. Subaru tends to make a few minor improvements each year and a facelift every two years. If you wait around trying to get the perfect STI, you'll wait forever. Also, go read the EvoM X forum. You have to be a hardcore Evo lover to put up with the crap the X owners are going through with their new cars. Personally, I'd be pissed. The STI may be slightly softer and a whole lot more homely looking, but it's got Subaru quality behind it and the performance is close enough that only magazine racers will ever care. Honestly, light mods will make the '08 STI just as tight, just as obnoxious as you ever want it to be. And with people like Sponaugle getting 375 ft-lbs of torque to the wheels with just a TBE and tune, who could ask for anything more? That's something around 60 ft-lbs more than a similarly modded Evo X, BTW . In any case I don't think Subaru will significantly alter the STI for at least three or four more years, even if sales are soft. They're committed to this model for that long at least.

02-20-2008, 07:03 PM	#4
denver133 Spec C Club Car: 08 specB Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,504 Join Date: Sep 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Anyone else worried 2009 Model will have drastic changes? As someone who is looking to buy a 08 Sti, I enjoy the car...But you are right...something is missing. But, from what I am also hearing is that STG 1 will blow you away! Whats wrong with that? Nothing. As for the drive....I liked it. I liked it alot. My test drive was 25 miles in pouring rain. I wanted to have fun and I tested it. Will there be improvements...Sure. Probably fix the steering like they did from 04 to 05. Maybe also bring the BBS's as a standard. But like most of us enthusiests, we replace them when we can.

02-20-2008, 07:08 PM	#5
Kaneda Junior STI Driver Car: White 08 WRX STi Fav Mod: Coming Soon Posts: 70 Join Date: Feb 2008 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Anyone else worried 2009 Model will have drastic changes? Rootus, I think you are dismissing these poor reviews as "not a big deal"...but didn't Subaru make this car softer to increase sales? Yet you state they will remain behind a car even if sales are soft...Believe me, that's not how a corporation thinks. Also, the last thing I want to be told as a car buyer is with "light mods" I can restore what's missing from previous models. 95% of owners DO NOT MOD THEIR CARS...I know the car can be modified, but I shouldn't have to modify a 40K Rally Car to behave like a rally car because they are trying to sell it to family guys first.

02-20-2008, 07:12 PM	#6
Kaneda Junior STI Driver Car: White 08 WRX STi Fav Mod: Coming Soon Posts: 70 Join Date: Feb 2008 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Anyone else worried 2009 Model will have drastic changes? Denver, again, why should I have to upgrade to STAGE 1, void warranty, to be blown away...For 40K, Subaru should have staged 2 this thing and gave us the handling to blow everyone away (with a warranty too) Here's what I don't get...they fix the steering from 2004 to 2005...and then get it wrong again in 2008? Seriously, do dingbats have the final word over at Subaru or what? You just can't build a loyal following if you get too much **** wrong...not with what the competition offers for 40K.

02-20-2008, 07:14 PM	#7
USNSTI Silver Member Car: OBP 07 STI Fav Mod: Ring-Shaped Reinforcement Frame Location: San Diego Posts: 1,230 Join Date: Dec 2006 Trader Rating: (6)	Re: Anyone else worried 2009 Model will have drastic changes? A lot of what you said is true. Subaru may be finishing last in a lot of head to head tests. Maybe it is not quite the enthusiasts car it once was. If SOA lost sales (to Mitsu) they would probably think hard about making changes. One thing is missing though. Do you have anything to back up your claim that 08's aren't selling? I have seen nothing. Other than saying "well they had like four cars on the lot at my local dealer" or "so and so got his for $500 below invoice.... Fire sale!" is there anything to support your claims of soft sales? We are all waiting....

02-20-2008, 07:15 PM	#8
MaStA Junior STI Driver Car: 98 Eclipse Location: Grand Blanc, MI Posts: 150 Join Date: May 2007 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Anyone else worried 2009 Model will have drastic changes? I do agree with the OP's post 100% and I haven't even drove the car. I drove previous years and they were great and fun to drive. I just think for the money you aren't really getting many gains especially after they boosted the price as well. If it had the recaro seats with heating, push button start (kinda like the smart key in the Mitsubishi, and a better sound system maybe...(the Evo has a rockford fosgate or whatever) it would be worth it. I am hoping within maybe the next two years we will see a few of those nice features here in the states. Almost all new cars are going to the keyless and going with the little remote that you just keep in your pocket and use little rubber buttons on the handle to unlock the door and a permanent key or button to start the car. Also another minor thing I noticed that I love about Nissan's (and maybe other brands have done it) not only having the front driver window have a auto down feature, but if you pull up the extra click it makes the window go all the way up without holding it...not only on the driver's side, but the passenger as well. Don't get me wrong because I really like the new STI and was about to buy one because my car got stolen, but I am glad since I have my car back that I can wait at least another year or two and at least have the paint chipping issue resolved. I can't speak of performance on the 08 since I never tried to drive one just to put miles on it, but at least the nice fancy little features that make a difference when putting out that kinda dough are lacking. I look forward to seeing a BMW 135 in person as I think most of us wouldn't mind checking them out once they hit the dealers. Jared

02-20-2008, 07:20 PM	#10
CarmG993 Junior STI Driver Car: '07 STI Ltd SWP Location: NJ Posts: 131 Join Date: Oct 2005 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Anyone else worried 2009 Model will have drastic changes? I too think they could have done much better, but then again I am not a car manufacturer nor do I understand why 'they do what they do.' I love the exterior of the '08 STI, and I am hoping that any mechanical issues that were in the '07 are non existent, but the interior is not that of a $35k - $40k car. I stay w/ my '07 (for now) and see what the '09's bring.

02-20-2008, 07:22 PM	#12
whtwrx1991 Junior STI Driver Car: 05 Subaru WRX STI Fav Mod: COBB TUNN Location: Indy Posts: 104 Join Date: May 2007 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Anyone else worried 2009 Model will have drastic changes? I'm very worried about this. I stayed up all night last night thinking about the aspects of mechanical eng. and what the cause and effects of changing the 2008 STI would mean to people in The Repulic of Chinca.