[scottjua]

As much as I hate to be THAT guy... I will NOT buy another STi or Subaru until we get great seats! My 02 wagon, has better seats than any US spec subaru Impreza since 04... including the 08. Sorry, but the seats REALLY ARE a deal breaker for me. I don't want to have to worry about compromising safety and spending more on seats that actually feel good while holding and supporting like a performance car's seats should, when they should come stock.

If by the time the wagon needs replacing, Subaru doesn't have good seats... I'm on to something else. I'll vote with my wallet, and as much as I like the spec of the new car... the seats ... yes the seats will keep me from buying a third Subaru.

Likely they won't come for the 09 model... (it would be a miracle), but if in 2010 we don't get good seats with a refresh look... I'll be sad indeed.

That, or I would wait to see if there's any possibility of the US getting a Spec C variant, or other more focused model variant.

[NaoNao]

Originally Posted by limited777

Read This: This was an interesting find......

That thread is referring to the changes the WRX would get, not the STi. If any of that is even true at all.

Video: Subie TV

..and yeah, that video is pretty old. Just an 08 test mule with speculated stats.

[MaStA]

Originally Posted by NaoNao

That thread is referring to the changes the WRX would get, not the STi. If any of that is even true at all.

..and yeah, that video is pretty old. Just an 08 test mule with speculated stats.

Exactly right. That vide of that "09" going around the track was released before the 08 even came out lol. It was talking about the 08 model and for some reason said 09.

[Blip]

Originally Posted by Kaneda

As I type this, I have a 2008 White/Gold STi on order. I am extremely worried Subaru is going to vastly improve the 2009 model. I know most of you own a 2008 and will defend the purchase and not want this to be true (I'd do the same thing), but the writing is on the wall guys. Bottom line is this: The STi is an enthusiasts car. Enthusiasts read car magazines. Every car magazine has rated the new STi poorly against the EVO and R32. This will dramatically hurt Subbies changes of selling this car...So like it or not, I feel like 2008 buyers will be screwed. Here's why.

When the EVO and STi came out in 2004, the magazines loved both and said it was a coin toss depending on your driving style. Unfortunately in 2008, the press love the EVO (mainly because of handling) and are lukewarm/unimpressed with the STi (because of softer suspension, lighter steering and a general disonnect from the road). Basically, Subaru's goal to apeal to the masses has backfired and the press is slamming them for it. If you don't deliver on the handling people expect from an STi, you are in big, big trouble. Because it is the enthusiat that needs to love it first for they will spread the word to the more casual buyer that it's a "MUST" own.

We spent so much time worried about the "looks" of the new STi because we just assumed they would never mess around with the driving charachteristics we adored and loved. Sure, it grips better and slaloms faster, but that is not what made an STi special...It was the feel, the connection to the road, the inspirering nature of the car....Almost every single magazine reports those qualities missing in the 08. While people on this board may want to deny this, how can all of these pubs come to the same conclusion? How can they all be wrong?

So for 2009, Subaru has to make changes. They just do...Last time around they didn't arrive in the marketplace with so little support. You think they are just going to accept finishing behind the Mitsu in every single test conducted? I mean, the answer is already in producton...It's their JDM car...

Here's what really sucks...Business men and marketing assholes made the decision to tame the US STi because they let numbers guide them...not passion, not technology, not innovation, no, it was cold, blunt market research numbers that, if followed, were supposed to increase sales. It's failing. Now they have a public relations nightmare on their hands because they need to uprade the car immediately to restore glory to the badge, but in doing so, they will ostracize the people that love the badge the most, the early adopters and 08 buyers.

Guys, I work in marketing and I see decisions like this happen everyday. Customers get screwed because of corporate greed. Softening up the STi hasn't increased Subbie's sales, it has just sent customers to Mistubishi and VW. And the changes that will take place to this car will be dramatic, they have to be. It's finishing last in every test. I think it's smart to wait to 09...the writing is on the wall and best to wait 6 months than to own an STi the year Subaru got it wrong...What do you guys think? And sorry to any of you 08 owners, it's nothing personal, but you must be worried to see what's i store for 09.

My last point is this...You pay 40K for a Subaru, shouldn't the aforementioned be the last thing you want to worry about? Peace of mind leads to customer loyalty...I wouldn't say Subbie has achieved that with the 08, not even close. You think people buying the newest M3 are having discussions right now about how the 09 model needs better seats, better tires, better steering feel, better handing response, better tune...etc...?

You got it all wrong it is people in general that is making car company's do this, Car company's are here TO MAKE MONEY, In 2006 SOA sold 200,703 unit how much do you think they care about a line of cars where they only sold 3,500 maybe 4,000 units, Also the STI is around because of WRC. You want the Subaru to fix a car that is a little over 2% of sales, I think they will make some changes but not much, 20+ HP and TQ is just a tune same motor, better seats No problem, Tires are all easy too, But no one is going to spend a 100 Million to redo the 2008 STI R&D and rebuild the car from the ground it is just not going to happen. BTW the changes that they make the turners can make the same.

If you want to fight something Stop talking on your cell phone, Eating or drinking, Stop trying to figure out a way to play a DVD as you drive, and just drive. That fact is most people are moving to a bunch over weight, cell phone talking, think it is cool to go fast in a Straight line, Bigger is better, I only want to get from point A to point B, I am the only person on the road, I want a 500 HP car that does the 1/4 in 10 Sec. gets 50 MPG and cost 20K because I can not pay 40K and gas is to much, Oh and by the way what ever it is it is not my fault.

The truth is what ever the next STI is people that have the OLD STI will hate it, and pray for something else. We are about 2% of the drivers out there most do not care about how fast you can go (track or on the public streets) most people do not know what understeer or overstreer is, most people would not spend 3-5 K more on better brakes, they just do not care. Most people think R&T, C&D are gods. My Dad believes 100% in Consumers Reports. That is the facts like it or not. A good friend of mine told me 5 years ago that I should take my 5 speed manual and store it because some day all cars will be Auto’s. I believe the STI would better car with a 5 speed then a 6 speed.

SOA sold more Foresters then Impreza in 2006 by 10,000 Units

The Subaru B9 Tribeca sales for 2006 totaled 18,614 units, up 26 percent from the previous year. Subaru Legacy recorded sales of 84,442 units, of which the Subaru Outback posted 59,262 units for 2006. Subaru Forester posted sales of 51,258 units for the year, while Subaru Baja recorded 5,241 units. The greatest increase of any car line came from the Impreza that posted another all-time sales record for the brand with a gain of 22 percent totaling 41,148 units for the year. This model line total surpassed the record set just after the launch of the WRX in 2001.

I know you do not work for Free we live in the US because we believe in greed , car company's are here to make money do know why I know this because this years as bad as ford is they are still going to give out bonuses.

[JuggernautTCW]

Blip - my thoughts exactly. Subaru has absolutely no reason to upgrade the STI just because of some stupid reviews. People are still buying the STI left and right arent they? ;-)

[drdome99]

the sti was ruined by old boring noobs


"omg ride is 2 harsh"

"omg were iz my nav so i can tell my coworkers i hav nav"

"omg wr iz my nize interiors"

"omg i dnt want to look lik3 a racEr"


im hoping they will atleast release a limited version that goes the way of performance instead of boring

[2jzgte]

2009 vs 2008

A very modest increase in hp/tq is likely after seeing the STG1 gains being had. I wouldn't expect updates as drastic as the 04 to 05 STI but likely in the realm of the 06 to 07 STI changes. Nothing to keep you from buying a 08 if you want one. My .02...

[ToldYouIdBeback]

Well ill have to say this. I own a 04 STi stage 2 protuned and some other stuff i love it i paid 32,500 for it. 36-38-40K is way to much for the STi. I mean come on i went and sat in a new 08 from the outside i like it i like the inside also but its basically the same car just looks diffrent with some ****ty seats is that really worth another 4-5K bucks...NO!!! just my 2 cents

[rj45]

The Camaro and Firebird have traditionally beat the Mustang in most magazine performance comparos, yet the Mustang always out-sold both of them (probably combined, too).

The total package counts for a lot. The STi is the better total package vs. the EVO.

[drdome99]

Originally Posted by rj45

The Camaro and Firebird have traditionally beat the Mustang in most magazine performance comparos, yet the Mustang always out-sold both of them (probably combined, too).

The total package counts for a lot. The STi is the better total package vs. the EVO.

that is base models i am assuming?, what about the STV cobra, which is the mustang version of STi?

[ChrisM623]

I, like most current STI owners are looking for something to justify spending the extra cash on when getting a new car. For me at least, the new STI has nothing that stands out and is worth the jump in price. To me the MY08 is a step back from the previous years. Sure they threw SI drive and traction/stability control on but I could care less about those. The interior is only marginally better/worse depending how you look at it and when we compare the USDM STI to the JDM spec...we all wonder why anyone is even buying the STI over here.

When I went to check out the new STI a month ago I didn't know what to expect. What did surprise me though was the older couple, prob late 40's seriously looking over teh new STI and talking numbers. That is not a demographic that would be checking out the 04-07's. So sure, some of us may thing Subaru really f'ed this year up but I'd bet they are getting many more people at least checking the car out compared to the previous years.

What am I going to do? I'd be much more interested in seeing a limited run STI that was less mainstream and more appealing to the tuner crowd. If Subaru made a STI that had all the great stuff the JDM spec STI had...I could easily see my self throwing numbers around for that car.

They don't need to reinvent the STI just to make the internet forums and mags happy. Just give us a "tuner" STI.

[Digitalfiend]

So much misinformation in this thread...:sigh:

First off, in Japan, sales of the new STI have shattered previous STI sales. Just because your dealership X isn't moving them doesn't mean they aren't selling well. Think of how many dealerships there are, the current economic situation in the US, and the time of the year. For instance, my small dealership sold four in ONE month. They are selling extremely fast up here in the Toronto area, especially with the price having been dropped from $48.9K to $44.9K. The sales of the new STI are doing fine, especially for the winter months. I think too many people are buying into the magazine-racer hype about how poor the new car is doing. In most reviews the new STI is faster than the Evo X in all but going around a track and those time differences vary between .1 to 1 second. Don't you magazine racers remember in '05 when C&D put the '05 STI and Evo on the same tires and the STI won?

Haven't you folks also been following all the threads from people that have been tracking and autoxing their '08 STIs in stock form and loving it. Hell, we've got people that have owned '04-'06s saying that their new '08s are better - in handling - than their old modded cars. It seems people are so caught up in magazine numbers and BS that they aren't listening to what actual owners are saying. Check out the NASIOC '08 autox thread. Note how both drivers say the '08 has an incredible amount of potential and is actually quite an amazing car in stock form (though they were on Dunlop Z1 tires.)

Secondly, that '09 WRX / CrazyCar.com post was a hoax and SoA has already commented that it was a fabricated interview.

Now, with all that said, I'm not saying that the new car is perfect or drastically better than previous models. Is it better than my '05? I'm still waiting for my car but from my test drive, yes, it is. It's got a better, more planted ride, way better interior, better modding potential, and yes, better looks. The steering did feel a little disconnected but NOTHING like what the magazine-racers (that haven't even driven the car) are making it out to be. The steering feel was not drastically different than my '05 and it could easily be improved with some cheap mods.

So, what can we expect from Subaru for MY09? In my opinion, if they pull an '04-'05, we'll likely see more aluminum suspension pieces in the rear, improved steering feedback (in '05 they completely revised the rack), etc. I would also guess that we'll see the Recaros or similar seats offered as an option, maybe slightly more power, maybe push-start, etc. If we're really lucky, we might see a special edition like the Spec-C (doubtful.) Overall, I think we'll see minor, incremental improvements.

Personally, if I could have waited for MY09, I would have. Unfortunately, living with one car right now is just killing me so I decided on an '08. As long as the '09s don't come out until late '08 I won't have any regrets.

[rj45]

Originally Posted by drdome99

that is base models i am assuming?, what about the STV cobra, which is the mustang version of STi?

I said traditionally.. i.e. over the years. Point being, the car that wins the magazine tests isn't always the one that sells the best.

In regards to the Supercharged SVT Cobra.. it debuted in '03, a year after the Camaro/Firebird were gone. Prior to that car, the earlier NA Cobras were not beating the LS1 F bodies (if you remember, those Cobras were over-rated from the factory).

[GilMikalian]

Originally Posted by Digitalfiend

So much misinformation in this thread...:sigh:

First off, in Japan, sales of the new STI have shattered previous STI sales. Just because your dealership X isn't moving them doesn't mean they aren't selling well. Think of how many dealerships there are, the current economic situation in the US, and the time of the year. For instance, my small dealership sold four in ONE month. They are selling extremely fast up here in the Toronto area, especially with the price having been dropped from $48.9K to $44.9K. The sales of the new STI are doing fine, especially for the winter months. I think too many people are buying into the magazine-racer hype about how poor the new car is doing. In most reviews the new STI is faster than the Evo X in all but going around a track and those time differences vary between .1 to 1 second. Don't you magazine racers remember in '05 when C&D put the '05 STI and Evo on the same tires and the STI won?

Haven't you folks also been following all the threads from people that have been tracking and autoxing their '08 STIs in stock form and loving it. Hell, we've got people that have owned '04-'06s saying that their new '08s are better - in handling - than their old modded cars. It seems people are so caught up in magazine numbers and BS that they aren't listening to what actual owners are saying. Check out the NASIOC '08 autox thread. Note how both drivers say the '08 has an incredible amount of potential and is actually quite an amazing car in stock form (though they were on Dunlop Z1 tires.)

Secondly, that '09 WRX / CrazyCar.com post was a hoax and SoA has already commented that it was a fabricated interview.

Now, with all that said, I'm not saying that the new car is perfect or drastically better than previous models. Is it better than my '05? I'm still waiting for my car but from my test drive, yes, it is. It's got a better, more planted ride, way better interior, better modding potential, and yes, better looks. The steering did feel a little disconnected but NOTHING like what the magazine-racers (that haven't even driven the car) are making it out to be. The steering feel was not drastically different than my '05 and it could easily be improved with some cheap mods.

So, what can we expect from Subaru for MY09? In my opinion, if they pull an '04-'05, we'll likely see more aluminum suspension pieces in the rear, improved steering feedback (in '05 they completely revised the rack), etc. I would also guess that we'll see the Recaros or similar seats offered as an option, maybe slightly more power, maybe push-start, etc. If we're really lucky, we might see a special edition like the Spec-C (doubtful.) Overall, I think we'll see minor, incremental improvements.

Personally, if I could have waited for MY09, I would have. Unfortunately, living with one car right now is just killing me so I decided on an '08. As long as the '09s don't come out until late '08 I won't have any regrets.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling. Please. So some mags feel the Evo is easier to drive around on a track. Look at the numbers, they are not very significant, ESPECIALLY out in the streets, where most of us will be enjoying our rides. This thread devolved from a what to expect for '09 to a "yeah, the new STI sux hard, I LUUUUUV my '0_" thread.

If you want a hardcore racer, spring for a Lotus/Atom. If you want a great road car with impressive performance and immense utility, the STI is a great car. You will also note that most of the naysayers, especially on this board, have yet to even DRIVE the '08. Bench racing is fun, but recognize it for what it is. As for the R32 "beating" the STI, recognize that the only reason it did so was 1) because of the slush box and 2) the interior fit & finish along with its "refined" ride. Uh, these things are anti-STI in my book, even though I just recently entered the "brotherhood."

As for the OP: No, I'm not worried because I would be STUPID to think that STI is not going to slowly creep in more features/improvements as the model line progresses. Also, if I thought like that, I would also worry about what improvements would be made for 2010. You get the idea. I saw the STI, loved it. I drove the STI, loved it. So I bought it and am enjoying it. No worries.

[ssauer2004]

Originally Posted by ToldYouIdBeback

Well ill have to say this. I own a 04 STi stage 2 protuned and some other stuff i love it i paid 32,500 for it. 36-38-40K is way to much for the STi. I mean come on i went and sat in a new 08 from the outside i like it i like the inside also but its basically the same car just looks diffrent with some ****ty seats is that really worth another 4-5K bucks...NO!!! just my 2 cents

The nonsense level in this thread is almost too much too take. We have a guy that doesn't realize that the economy is a big factor in car sales. We have another guy who the only thing that matters to him are the seats. This forum member paid 32.5k for an 04 and thinks it was a good deal.

I paid 35.5K for my 08 STI. It has the fog/bbs option. If you want to break down who got the better deal or which car is worth the money, I have to say I might have you on this one. The interior is the same? You might want to go back to the dealership and take another look. The interior alone is a huge step forward.