The real question about the tune: does it actually detonate?

CFar · 02-19-2008, 11:35 AM

I've posted a thread or two about the safety of the tune and it went off topic pretty quick.

With that said, is there any evidence that the 08's are actually detonating/pinging? Everything I've seen is that the logs say it runs lean pretty late into the rev range due an overdue switch to open loop, but I haven't seen anyone ever say that it was detonating.

Anyone?

**Turninconcepts.com** · 02-19-2008, 11:51 AM

YES!!!! I can confirm. Jorge tuned my 08 yesterday and on the very first pull could feel and hear the detonation. It was also shown in the logs with a reduction in dynamic advance after 4500 rpm (on the first run it was pulling up to 4* of timing). You can feel it detting in 6th on the highway while trying to accelerate moderately. You can feel the jerkiness of it.

I would not even drive the car hard with out tuning first.

waktasz · 02-19-2008, 11:53 AM

That's terrible. Was that on 91 or 93?

CFar · 02-19-2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turninconcepts.com

YES!!!! I can confirm. Jorge tuned my 08 yesterday and on the very first pull could feel and hear the detonation. It was also shown in the logs with a reduction in dynamic advance after 4500 rpm (on the first run it was pulling up to 4* of timing). You can feel it detting in 6th on the highway while trying to accelerate moderately. You can feel the jerkiness of it.

I would not even drive the car hard with out tuning first.

Is it possible for you to switch back to the stock map and log it to see? What do you use to log? If Im not mistaken the Tari software thats available will show you knock events. Was there anything along those lines?

Also waktasz asked a good question, was this on 91 o 93?

**Turninconcepts.com** · 02-19-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waktasz

That's terrible. Was that on 91 or 93?

93.

I'll see if I can grab logs from Jorge. I honestly don't want to switch back as I am not one for abusing the motor.

We were using the Pro Tuner software from Cobb as well as Delta Dash for logging. Both indicated a reduction in dynamic advance related to detonation.

Jorge said the factory tune reminds him very much of the factory tune on the 07 sti and the problems associated with it.

waktasz · 02-19-2008, 12:33 PM

Didn't Subaru release a reflash for the 07s after this issue came about?

CFar · 02-19-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turninconcepts.com

93.

I'll see if I can grab logs from Jorge. I honestly don't want to switch back as I am not one for abusing the motor.

We were using the Pro Tuner software from Cobb as well as Delta Dash for logging. Both indicated a reduction in dynamic advance related to detonation.

Jorge said the factory tune reminds him very much of the factory tune on the 07 sti and the problems associated with it.

That would be great and at the least, I would appreciate being able to see it.

Did you think the off the shelf Cobb map was unsafe, or did you just want more power?

**Turninconcepts.com** · 02-19-2008, 04:45 PM

Didn't want to work from an OTS map as Jorge wanted to see the effects of avcs on the exhaust cams a step at a time. I would be very interested in seeing the IDC's for the OTS map though as mine were maxed out with only a .5 psi increase in boost.

**Turninconcepts.com** · 02-19-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waktasz

Didn't Subaru release a reflash for the 07s after this issue came about?

Yes, but it still had issues.

rj45 · 02-20-2008, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turninconcepts.com

Yes, but it still had issues.

Why is Subaru tuning the cars this way? TIA

**Turninconcepts.com** · 02-20-2008, 04:30 AM

Jorge and I were talking about this. Obviously the EPA has a greater presence in car tuning and design now more than ever. Being the synical people we are we feel Subaru's stance is if 20% of the cars have issues and 80% of those cars with issues mod them, then they only have to deal with 4% of the overall population of buyers who are having problems as they have denied warranty claims for the modded owners. That allows them to deal with the EPA and their regulations without having to worry as much about issues down the road.

Of course it may have played out differently in reality, but that's our thoughts.

The tune really is that bad. Oh, and Subaru has instituted a great safety measure for the engine. When the traction control is activated after 5000 rpm and you are at WOT, the ECU leans out the car to 18:1 for the hell of it and holds that until you release the throttle. Sure, it could cut boost, but instead it lets the car continue on at full boost with less fuel. Sounds safe to me....idiots. Moral of the story: make sure traction control is turned completely off while on the dyno.

Tony

rj45 · 02-20-2008, 04:41 AM

Tony, sorry to go off topic, but how far back-ordered are the WC Lathe Works black sphere copolymer shift knobs? I'm interested in one. TIA

P.S. - do you deal with the special order knobs too, or must one purchase them directly through WC?

CFar · 02-20-2008, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turninconcepts.com

Didn't want to work from an OTS map as Jorge wanted to see the effects of avcs on the exhaust cams a step at a time. I would be very interested in seeing the IDC's for the OTS map though as mine were maxed out with only a .5 psi increase in boost.

.5 increase from OTS, or from stock?

Maxed out as in fully open, or pulsing as fast they can?

**Turninconcepts.com** · 02-20-2008, 05:52 AM

.5 increase from stock.

Not sure. I was just referencing the IDC numbers calculated in the Pro tuner. They were running up to 98% in the upper rpm ranges at 11.8:1 afr.

**Turninconcepts.com** · 02-20-2008, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rj45

Tony, sorry to go off topic, but how far back-ordered are the WC Lathe Works black sphere copolymer shift knobs? I'm interested in one. TIA

P.S. - do you deal with the special order knobs too, or must one purchase them directly through WC?

Don't think they are, but it takes him a bit of time to make them if he doesn't have any around. Only about a week though. I just ordered one from him for the sti and he didn't say anything about them being delayed.

02-19-2008, 11:35 AM	#1
CFar Grassroots STI Racer Location: NOVA Posts: 542 Join Date: Jun 2006 Trader Rating: (1)	The real question about the tune: does it actually detonate? I've posted a thread or two about the safety of the tune and it went off topic pretty quick. With that said, is there any evidence that the 08's are actually detonating/pinging? Everything I've seen is that the logs say it runs lean pretty late into the rev range due an overdue switch to open loop, but I haven't seen anyone ever say that it was detonating. Anyone? This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

02-19-2008, 11:51 AM	#2
Turninconcepts.com Authorized Vendor Posts: 4,811 Join Date: Jul 2003 Trader Rating: (50)	Re: The real question about the tune: does it actually detonate? YES!!!! I can confirm. Jorge tuned my 08 yesterday and on the very first pull could feel and hear the detonation. It was also shown in the logs with a reduction in dynamic advance after 4500 rpm (on the first run it was pulling up to 4* of timing). You can feel it detting in 6th on the highway while trying to accelerate moderately. You can feel the jerkiness of it. I would not even drive the car hard with out tuning first.

02-19-2008, 11:53 AM	#3
waktasz Professional STI Racer Car: 02 Penis Extender Fav Mod: Autotrader.com Location: Philly Posts: 812 Join Date: Jan 2006 Trader Rating: (1)	Re: The real question about the tune: does it actually detonate? That's terrible. Was that on 91 or 93?

02-19-2008, 12:33 PM	#6
waktasz Professional STI Racer Car: 02 Penis Extender Fav Mod: Autotrader.com Location: Philly Posts: 812 Join Date: Jan 2006 Trader Rating: (1)	Re: The real question about the tune: does it actually detonate? Didn't Subaru release a reflash for the 07s after this issue came about?

02-19-2008, 04:45 PM	#8
Turninconcepts.com Authorized Vendor Posts: 4,811 Join Date: Jul 2003 Trader Rating: (50)	Re: The real question about the tune: does it actually detonate? Didn't want to work from an OTS map as Jorge wanted to see the effects of avcs on the exhaust cams a step at a time. I would be very interested in seeing the IDC's for the OTS map though as mine were maxed out with only a .5 psi increase in boost.

02-20-2008, 04:30 AM	#11
Turninconcepts.com Authorized Vendor Posts: 4,811 Join Date: Jul 2003 Trader Rating: (50)	Re: The real question about the tune: does it actually detonate? Jorge and I were talking about this. Obviously the EPA has a greater presence in car tuning and design now more than ever. Being the synical people we are we feel Subaru's stance is if 20% of the cars have issues and 80% of those cars with issues mod them, then they only have to deal with 4% of the overall population of buyers who are having problems as they have denied warranty claims for the modded owners. That allows them to deal with the EPA and their regulations without having to worry as much about issues down the road. Of course it may have played out differently in reality, but that's our thoughts. The tune really is that bad. Oh, and Subaru has instituted a great safety measure for the engine. When the traction control is activated after 5000 rpm and you are at WOT, the ECU leans out the car to 18:1 for the hell of it and holds that until you release the throttle. Sure, it could cut boost, but instead it lets the car continue on at full boost with less fuel. Sounds safe to me....idiots. Moral of the story: make sure traction control is turned completely off while on the dyno. Tony

02-20-2008, 04:41 AM	#12
rj45 Junior STI Driver Car: Silver '08 STi w/BBS Fav Mod: WC Lathe Werks Copolymer Sphere Shift Knob Posts: 85 Join Date: Jan 2008 Trader Rating: (0)	Re: The real question about the tune: does it actually detonate? Tony, sorry to go off topic, but how far back-ordered are the WC Lathe Works black sphere copolymer shift knobs? I'm interested in one. TIA P.S. - do you deal with the special order knobs too, or must one purchase them directly through WC? Last edited by rj45 : 02-20-2008 at 04:45 AM.

02-20-2008, 05:52 AM	#14
Turninconcepts.com Authorized Vendor Posts: 4,811 Join Date: Jul 2003 Trader Rating: (50)	Re: The real question about the tune: does it actually detonate? .5 increase from stock. Not sure. I was just referencing the IDC numbers calculated in the Pro tuner. They were running up to 98% in the upper rpm ranges at 11.8:1 afr.