[VanishingPoint]

So really in the end it probably comes down to the driver. Looks like the EVO and STI are to close in performance that a good driver against a fair driver would win with either car.

IMO, out of the box, the EVO sounds like a better track car and the STI a better DD street car. Which one is more important to you. Can the STI be made into a better track car, or the EVO a better street car?

I think that the existance of each makes the other better.

Tony

[steiner]

Originally Posted by VanishingPoint

So really in the end it probably comes down to the driver. Looks like the EVO and STI are to close in performance that a good driver against a fair driver would win with either car.

IMO, out of the box, the EVO sounds like a better track car and the STI a better DD street car. Which one is more important to you. Can the STI be made into a better track car, or the EVO a better street car?

I think that the existance of each makes the other better.

Tony

I think the script has been flipped in 2008. The STI now seems like the more aggressive choice while the new X seems more like an attempt to lure away Audi, Lexus and Infiniti owners.

[4wheelin]

Originally Posted by damstr

Very true when you can get that from regular IX's for around $3000 on stock turbos.

I think the reason they are so expensive is because only 100 were made like you said.

Show me where you can get a IX on stock turbos for $3000,i'll have 10 of those please

[steiner]

Originally Posted by 4wheelin

Show me where you can get a IX on stock turbos for $3000,i'll have 10 of those please

400hp on the stock turbo is very easy. I'm putting down close to 400hp AT THE WHEELS right now on my '05 VIII with an OEM turbo.

[4wheelin]

Originally Posted by steiner

400hp on the stock turbo is very easy. I'm putting down close to 400hp AT THE WHEELS right now on my '05 VIII with an OEM turbo.

I know,the way i read your post sounded like you were saying you could buy one foe $3k,thought you left out a 0,simply because the conversation was about price of the total vehicles,not upgrades.
I am aware of what can be accomplished from just boltons on the mivec headed IX.
For example a former co-worker of mine had an IX mr se,with an ams TB system,intake,ivey tune,and gsc 272 cams,and he made roughly 380 whp for roughly $3k.
And i own an VIII,which dollar for dollar what i have into it,there aren't many STI's' that can compete with it,fuly built with a gt35r upgrade,well capable of 700whp,already broke the 500 mark and heading into the 600 range.
Unfortunately it's for sale,as i have other priorities right now so anyone interested,please pm me you will not be dissapointed
I'll end with one last note,IMHO the evoX is just plain ugly,the new STI on the other hand has grown on me rather rapidly,because a month or 2 ago i simply could not beleive subaru would actually release something as hideous as the sneak pics showed.

[damstr]

Originally Posted by 4wheelin

Show me where you can get a IX on stock turbos for $3000,i'll have 10 of those please

What? Are you talking about the IX Turbos? They are just large 16Gs. You can get them for about $900. Here is one with a 10.5 hotside @ lancershop.com. They also have some with a 20G conversion for about the same price...$935.

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 8, 9 Turbo Performance Parts EVO VIII, IX - Evolution 9 Stock Turbo 10.5TH

Or were you talking about getting that kind of power from a stock IX turbo Evo for $3000? If so, Cams $500 $350 installed, Meth $600 $300 installed, $400 for full intercooler hard piping, manual boost controller $85, $150 TurboSmart BOV, $90 for a Walbro Fuel pump, $700 for a Turboback exhaust. $150 for a pro retune (for me since I've been tuned at my shop before)

Puts me at around $3300 or so and over 400 all wheel horsepower and torque. Thats about the limit for a stock turbo IX. No offenese but this is one of the reason I choose the Evo over the STI.

I haven't seen any STI's make this kind of power on stock turbos without a lot of money invested into them. Reason is becaue STI's have smaller turbos with less lag which IMO is the reason they are better DD. That and the 2.5 liter of displacement over the Evo's 2.0.

[4wheelin]

Originally Posted by damstr

What? Are you talking about the IX Turbos? They are just large 16Gs. You can get them for about $900. Here is one with a 10.5 hotside @ lancershop.com. They also have some with a 20G conversion for about the same price...$935.

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 8, 9 Turbo Performance Parts EVO VIII, IX - Evolution 9 Stock Turbo 10.5TH

Or were you talking about getting that kind of power from a stock IX turbo Evo for $3000? If so, Cams $500 $350 installed, Meth $600 $300 installed, $400 for full intercooler hard piping, manual boost controller $85, $150 TurboSmart BOV, $90 for a Walbro Fuel pump, $700 for a Turboback exhaust. $150 for a pro retune (for me since I've been tuned at my shop before)

Puts me at around $3300 or so and over 400 all wheel horsepower and torque. Thats about the limit for a stock turbo IX. No offenese but this is one of the reason I choose the Evo over the STI.

I haven't seen any STI's make this kind of power on stock turbos without a lot of money invested into them. Reason is becaue STI's have smaller turbos with less lag which IMO is the reason they are better DD. That and the 2.5 liter of displacement over the Evo's 2.0.

I explained in the earlier post,i was talking about getting that power from a IX turbo.
The turbo is not the special sauce,but rather the mivec head,cause basically a IX turbo on an VIII is pointless.
I own an VIII,and wouldn't waste my time with that setup if i were trying to make alot of power.
Don't get me wrong you can get good gains with the 10.5 hotside on an VIII
but you will spend alot more than $3300.

[B.Money]

hey so i downloaded it but it seemed like the old evo x vs 06-07 sti video.

anyone have the link or is it out yet for the evo x vs 08 sti? sorry too lazy to read thru 2 pages... yeah its that bad...lol

[steiner]

Originally Posted by 4wheelin

...The turbo is not the special sauce,but rather the mivec head,cause basically a IX turbo on an VIII is pointless...

I'm sorry to hijack this thread but the special sauce (if that's what we're calling it) is NOT the MIVEC head. They do flow marginally better than an VIII head because of the larger diameter coolant passages and they do help to bring on linear power earlier in the powerband. Peak numbers is not what MIVEC is about though. It's the OEM 16G IX turbo that enables the Evo IX to baseline significantly higher than its predecessors. It's the special sauce. I know because I have one on my '05 VIII. Untuned it produced an additional 6whp and 13wtq over the stock 16G turbo. After a 91 octane tune it netted 14whp/12wtq over my VIII turbo. On 100 octane it stretched its legs even more. Compared to my high octane tune on the VIII turbo, I picked up 23whp and 14wtq with the IX turbo. That being said, the IX turbo comes out in February and a 20G EvoGreen goes in.

[bigd]

I'll jump in here since I own a IX... The MIVEC does help, but the turbo adds to it. stock for stock, mod for mod, the IX's typically get 30-40 more whp for identical upgrades over the VIII. Its not any one particular item, but a cumulative effect. The Evo is cheaper to mod and is quite a bit easier to work on due to the engine config. Spark plug swap takes 10 minutes if you're lazy.

Aside from that, the comparison between Evo and STi hasn't changed. When I compared my 04 STi to my 06 Evo, it was exactly the same, the only difference is that the car's have both grown up a little and become a little more refined. Every review I have read says the exact same thing for the last 4 years.

Here's my personal opinion...

The Evo "feels" better and is more accurate, this is undeniable and the car is more fun to drive because you can find its limits more comfortably, and you can place it better on the track. When it gets out of line there are NO surprises, the car feels VERY comfortable at the edge (if being driven correctly). The tech goodies on the Evo allow it to go beyond its natural limits, and it does so in the way good tech should, seamlessly in transition. The Evo is a scalpel. The new model is heavier, but the underlying personality hasn't changed.

The STi on the other hand may be quicker in some respects, but its more of a brawler and to be fast, it needs to be driven in a manner that tends to feel more abusive. The STi isn't so much "graceful" as it is just plain damn strong, and if driven correctly to its mannerisms it can be very fast. Its not fast because the car electronically empowers you to do so like the Evo, its fast because it responds to authoritative commands... That doesn't mean the car has to be beaten to be fast, it can be graceful and smooth, but the driver has to know how to persuade the car to be fast.

Sounds familiar? (:
Throw in some mods and its anyone's guess.

Originally Posted by VanishingPoint

So really in the end it probably comes down to the driver. Looks like the EVO and STI are to close in performance that a good driver against a fair driver would win with either car.

IMO, out of the box, the EVO sounds like a better track car and the STI a better DD street car. Which one is more important to you. Can the STI be made into a better track car, or the EVO a better street car?

I think that the existance of each makes the other better.

I agree 1000000%.

[steiner]

Originally Posted by bigd

I'll jump in here since I own a IX... The MIVEC does help, but the turbo adds to it. stock for stock, mod for mod, the IX's typically get 30-40 more whp for identical upgrades over the VIII. Its not any one particular item, but a cumulative effect. The Evo is cheaper to mod and is quite a bit easier to work on due to the engine config. Spark plug swap takes 10 minutes if you're lazy.

30whp-40whp might be a little steep. It is definitely more though if you're talking about bolt-ons. Last summer one of the local tuners had a dyno day and it became pretty evident...

http://www.evolutionmr.net/img/image.../dynosheet.gif

[bigd]

Originally Posted by steiner

30whp-40whp might be a little steep. It is definitely more though if you're talking about bolt-ons. Last summer one of the local tuners had a dyno day and it became pretty evident...

http://www.evolutionmr.net/img/image.../dynosheet.gif

I think you're right, now that I think about it, it did seem to average around 20-30whp gains were more common.

[Nexus_One]

Is there a non-torrent version available for download?

[MikeO]

Originally Posted by bigd

I'll jump in here since I own a IX... The MIVEC does help, but the turbo adds to it. stock for stock, mod for mod, the IX's typically get 30-40 more whp for identical upgrades over the VIII. Its not any one particular item, but a cumulative effect. The Evo is cheaper to mod and is quite a bit easier to work on due to the engine config. Spark plug swap takes 10 minutes if you're lazy.

Aside from that, the comparison between Evo and STi hasn't changed. When I compared my 04 STi to my 06 Evo, it was exactly the same, the only difference is that the car's have both grown up a little and become a little more refined. Every review I have read says the exact same thing for the last 4 years.

Here's my personal opinion...

The Evo "feels" better and is more accurate, this is undeniable and the car is more fun to drive because you can find its limits more comfortably, and you can place it better on the track. When it gets out of line there are NO surprises, the car feels VERY comfortable at the edge (if being driven correctly). The tech goodies on the Evo allow it to go beyond its natural limits, and it does so in the way good tech should, seamlessly in transition. The Evo is a scalpel. The new model is heavier, but the underlying personality hasn't changed.

The STi on the other hand may be quicker in some respects, but its more of a brawler and to be fast, it needs to be driven in a manner that tends to feel more abusive. The STi isn't so much "graceful" as it is just plain damn strong, and if driven correctly to its mannerisms it can be very fast. Its not fast because the car electronically empowers you to do so like the Evo, its fast because it responds to authoritative commands... That doesn't mean the car has to be beaten to be fast, it can be graceful and smooth, but the driver has to know how to persuade the car to be fast.

Sounds familiar? (:
Throw in some mods and its anyone's guess.


I agree 1000000%.

Hey top gear...

All that has been said on the differences of the STI and the EVO is true. The reason i bought an STI over an EVO aside from those reasons was the fact that Mitsubishi is a company that has consistently manufactured ****y unreliable cars. They have poor consumer ratings, and i never can or could see myself owning one.

I'm not saying the EVO is unreliable as i have never read up on the matter. However, with friends who have owned galants, GSX's, other eclipses etc i have seen and heard my fair share of unreliability. And from a manufacturing stand point, if they can't do it right with all of their cars, i wouldn't own one of their cars.

Anyways it's all apples and oranges really, everyone has their own personal preference. Anyone can took good care of an unreliable car and keep it in good working order. Anyone can break a reliable car. Hell... with enough money anyone can make a slow car fast.

Man... i am in a ranting mood tonight.


Anyways... when can we expect a true comparison video?

[steiner]

Mitsubishi's vehicle reliability isn't as bad as people think. It's also greatly improved since the days of the DSM's and the 3000GT...

Toyota is slipping, Consumer Reports says - MSN Money