[Lastchild]

I know alot of people say MPG is not something thats a big concern with a performance vehicle.

Most people unless they are very wealthy however believe cost is. MPG of course is more and more of an added cost to owning a car. That besides the environmental issues ( even if global warming is wrong, pollution is essentially not a good thing), and of course the energy independence issue .

Too the point. Although the Hatch look may or may not be ugly depending on your viewpoint. How much does it gain in the aero dept?

Most mileage ratings for HWY are based on 55-65mph I assume. It is well known that after 55 mph for most cars the effeciencies start to drop dramatically.

Where I live in NY state the NY state thruway is a 65 MPH road and almost everybody does 80mph. In fact you can go by a trooper at 78 79 Mph and they dont even look at you. You have to be going faster then traffic which is going at a solid 80 besides a few slopokes in the left lane.

I am also going to assume that at 80mph with the new design the MPG may be significantly better then my 05 with a shape like a brick, a giant scoop and a park bench bolted to the trunk.

As oil prices rise these incremental differences may make an even bigger difference in affordability for certain people, especially those who the car is a DD.

It will be intersting to see what the difference is in the real world where most people drive these cars outside the range of where testing computes effeciencies.

I guess for stock cars the SI drive or whatever its called may also help with the MPGs if it changes the ecu to a less aggressive tune for long trips.

Any thoughts ?

[daesharacor]

I drive the 90 all the time from Buffalo to Syracuse, and yeah, 80mph is pretty typical... I'd much rather have a nice streamlined hatch and get the extra couple of miles per gallon. My father owns a protege hatch, and my friend owns a 4-door protege (same engine, same year) and my dad gets an easy 4/5 or more mpg on highway trips over the 4-door.

[Pre]

I'm curious to this as well. I can afford the gas it's just that I'm not going to pay over X amount per month on gas. Cost of ownership for me is payment/insurance/maintenance/fuel. If gas was going to go back down a little (under $3.00 for premium) or lock-in at today's price for quite sometime it wouldn't be as much of a concern. We will see $4, then $5, it's only a matter of time. I want the new STi but I'm going to wait for 1 year from right now until I decide. It's between the EVO and Sti and during the next 12 months I'll get to see what the oil barrel will trade for. If it goes up more and more it'll be time to start thinking about my performance orientated habits and buy some fuel efficient diesel instead

[Lastchild]

Originally Posted by daesharacor

I drive the 90 all the time from Buffalo to Syracuse, and yeah, 80mph is pretty typical... I'd much rather have a nice streamlined hatch and get the extra couple of miles per gallon. My father owns a protege hatch, and my friend owns a 4-door protege (same engine, same year) and my dad gets an easy 4/5 or more mpg on highway trips over the 4-door.

That definately lends some credence to my assumptions. If he is really getting 4/5 in those conditions that is a serious difference.

I would also assume their would be a bigger difference with the sti design because of the added drag of the giant scoop and wing where as the protege presumably has the same front end and isnt running the park bench in sedan trim.

[EESTI]

With the 07 gearing and the variable exhaust cam gear I'm sure it'll do better than ours.

[Daweism]

Shut up I was ticketed for 79 in a 65 zone.

[Digitalfiend]

I'm not quite sure why people complain about MPG when buying an AWD turbocharged car. You know the MPG isn't going to be the best. Yes, DI should improve things once Subaru gets around to it, but the fact is, most sports sedans/cars are not overly fuel efficient, especially when offering the performance of AWD and 300+hp.

If you need a fuel efficient car and gas is truly a concern (due to commuting/travel) then you really should be looking at a different car. That's not to say Subaru shouldn't try to improve things but, let's face it, a sports car is never going to get the mileage of an economy car.

[layza4sti]

Originally Posted by Digitalfiend

I'm not quite sure why people complain about MPG when buying an AWD turbocharged car. You know the MPG isn't going to be the best. Yes, DI should improve things once Subaru gets around to it, but the fact is, most sports sedans/cars are not overly fuel efficient, especially when offering the performance of AWD and 300+hp.

If you need a fuel efficient car and gas is truly a concern (due to commuting/travel) then you really should be looking at a different car. That's not to say Subaru shouldn't try to improve things but, let's face it, a sports car is never going to get the mileage of an economy car.

as you are 100% correct, but that is not his point he already has a sti and is just talking about how much more mpg you will get with the hatch vurse are so called brick of a car... to me i would love to get better mpg but are cars are so much fun to drive it all make up for the mass amount of fuel i use...

[Lastchild]

Originally Posted by Digitalfiend

I'm not quite sure why people complain about MPG when buying an AWD turbocharged car. You know the MPG isn't going to be the best. Yes, DI should improve things once Subaru gets around to it, but the fact is, most sports sedans/cars are not overly fuel efficient, especially when offering the performance of AWD and 300+hp.

If you need a fuel efficient car and gas is truly a concern (due to commuting/travel) then you really should be looking at a different car. That's not to say Subaru shouldn't try to improve things but, let's face it, a sports car is never going to get the mileage of an economy car.

Well I disagree. Lotus elise is a sports car and gets near econo mileage. My corvette when not driven hard sips gas and is capable of 30 plus on the hwy. My 98 SS camaro was also really quite good on gas when put in 6th on the HWY.

Of course none of those cars are AWD and therefore not practical in inclement weather, 2 are decent DD and one not so much. None of them are as practical as a STI- especially the hatch.

For alot of long trips I use the corvette becasue it is more economical then the other mundane vehicles I own.

Alotta people cant afford multiple vehicles. I was just pointing out that the new body style might be helpful with MPG and be a good thing for certain people when looking at cost of ownership. Not mention better aero is good for going fast.

[dxpsycho]

if your so worried about fuel economy, get a hybrid!! I get like 10mpg... i do over a buck every time I get on the road... I'll save gas by letting my gf drive! lol

[CaliberFX]

I am actually thinking of putting a cf subaru rs hood once i get a front mount intercooler because cops will stop giving me tickets and aero.

[Rootus]

Originally Posted by Lastchild

Well I disagree. Lotus elise is a sports car and gets near econo mileage. My corvette when not driven hard sips gas and is capable of 30 plus on the hwy. My 98 SS camaro was also really quite good on gas when put in 6th on the HWY.

All the cars you listed are also sporting high compression naturally aspirated motors. In addition to AWD drivetrain loss, the low compression engine in the STI is less fuel efficient. It's the price you pay for safe boost .

I was just pointing out that the new body style might be helpful with MPG and be a good thing for certain people when looking at cost of ownership. Not mention better aero is good for going fast.

Are you sure the new car is aerodynamically superior? In frontal area it's probably similar to the 02-07 sedan. If anything, the sharper, taller dropoff at the rear may cause more drag (think of that nice big vacuum you are pulling behind the car). We've seen aero tests of the 06 STI and the air flows over the top and at least as far as the back of the trunk very smoothly. From there it's going to swirl around much like the air coming off the roof of the hatch, only the height of the void is half.

I'd guess in the end the '08 STI will get 20-25 mpg, just like the current model, depending on driving style and situation more than anything else.

[Digitalfiend]

Originally Posted by Lastchild

Well I disagree. Lotus elise is a sports car and gets near econo mileage.

True, but that isn't really a practical daily driver; at least I wouldn't want to drive that to work every day.

Originally Posted by Lastchild

My corvette when not driven hard sips gas and is capable of 30 plus on the hwy.

That's true. Vettes have great aerodynamics, a very overdriven 6th, and high compression V8. But you are correct, that is a good example. I guess I was more referring to driving around town, having fun AND getting good gas mileage. I don't think those go hand-in-hand.

Originally Posted by Lastchild

Alotta people cant afford multiple vehicles. I was just pointing out that the new body style might be helpful with MPG and be a good thing for certain people when looking at cost of ownership. Not mention better aero is good for going fast.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be an ass or come down on you. As Rootus said, I'm not sure the aerodynamics are that much better on the 08s. I don't think Subaru focuses much on aerodynamics because the rally cars aren't built for 190+mph. They focus on bursts of 20-100mph and ultimate chassis stability, overall handling, and durability.

Considering the AWD, crappy aerodynamics, and turbocharger, the STI does a reasonable job at getting OK gas mileage. I think I managed 540km on one tank, once, while cruising up to Ottawa. To put that into perspective though, I drove to Ottawa and BACK with my wife's Civic using just over 3/4 of a tank (~730-ish km.)

[Digitalfiend]

I was just reading through the 2008 STI Canadian-spec sheet and it looks like the drag co-efficient is now 0.36 vs 0.33 for the old car. Now, CD is just one aspect of overall aerodynamics, with frontal area being the next big one. I wonder if the overall frontal area of the 08 is better than previous years?

[STInk]

The thing I hate about my STI is I get crappy mileage if I flog it, and I get crappy mileage if I baby it. It just dumps fuel for fun, apparently. My buddy has a Haldex Audi TT with 320wtq and averages 32mpg on his daily commute. On longer trips he still sees 36 every so often. In my STI I see 23 on long trips. I think Subaru uses pretty old/simple/archaic sensors, and has a sloppy tune, and sloppy learning AI. Direct injection will help, but there's more to it; and where the heck is direct injection anyway? MPG is a BIG priority for me for my next purchase. Not really about money, just feel like being responsible with my hoon hobbies. Better MPG is possible, so let's have it.