[GotSTI?]

So, we know what the MSRP is... but I want to know what the invoice price is. Anyone know? If I bought one they damn well better give it to me just over invoice since I bought two already! I got my 06' for just under 32k so I am spoiled.

Here are some other questions:

ok so we have 305 hp at 6k RPM... but wasn't it 300 hp at 4k RPM before SAE ratings stepped in? I would think it's better to have that power at 4k RPM no? I am ok with the 305 hp rating since it's 12 more hp than the 07. If you looked at the rating before SAE this car would be 312, correct?

Lastly, the 290 torque is down from 293 on the 07, correct? How is this an improvement? All I recall from you technically intelligent people is that torque is the most important.

Signed,

Your We Todd STI enthusiast.

[Rootus]

Originally Posted by GotSTI?

So, we know what the MSRP is... but I want to know what the invoice price is.

Well, MSRP went up about 4.5% over last year, so if you figure that invoice did too, it should be ~$33,031.

ok so we have 305 hp at 6k RPM... but wasn't it 300 hp at 4k RPM before SAE ratings stepped in?

No, it was 6K. 300 horsepower at 4K RPM would require almost 400 ft-lbs of torque. That would be nice .

All I recall from you technically intelligent people is that torque is the most important.

Torque is good, yes. Most important is area under the curve. Peak numbers are for magazines.

[Digitalfiend]

As Rootus said, it is area under the curve that matters and this new STI has that in a big way.

Here is a comparison:

2007 STI:
243 HP & 290LB-FT @ 4400 RPM
293 HP & 256LB-FT @ 6000 RPM

2008 STI:
221 HP & 290LB-FT @ 4000 RPM
305 HP & 267LB-FT @ 6000 RPM

The new STI makes 290lb-ft @ 4000 rpm instead of 4400 rpm. Note, the horsepower looks lower at 4K on the 08, simply because HP = (TQ*RPM)/5252. I think it is safe to assume the new STI also makes 290LB-FT (or there abouts) at 4400rpm; so it effectively has more power, earlier, and noticeably more top end. It wouldn't suprise me to see the 08 dyno with a really fat torque curve starting around 3K.

The torque drop off for the new car might not be as drastic as the old car. The new car also has dual AVCS which should help across the entire powerband.

Originally Posted by GotSTI?

So, we know what the MSRP is... but I want to know what the invoice price is. Anyone know? If I bought one they damn well better give it to me just over invoice since I bought two already! I got my 06' for just under 32k so I am spoiled.

Here are some other questions:

ok so we have 305 hp at 6k RPM... but wasn't it 300 hp at 4k RPM before SAE ratings stepped in? I would think it's better to have that power at 4k RPM no? I am ok with the 305 hp rating since it's 12 more hp than the 07. If you looked at the rating before SAE this car would be 312, correct?

Lastly, the 290 torque is down from 293 on the 07, correct? How is this an improvement? All I recall from you technically intelligent people is that torque is the most important.

Signed,

Your We Todd STI enthusiast.

[philswrx04]

dual AVCS should improve toruqe and hp bands should it not,
so the new motor should have greater tq earler (already proven with peak numbers) but also hold it longer.
which should help with economy? and tuning for more power.
i wouldnt be suprised if the motor could make more power with a simple tune. to the 330 numbers people were expecting

[dareseven]

Man I hope you guys are right. Thanks for making me feel a little better about the 08.

[blaznwrx]

dual avcs will improve the area under the curve and it should put out high numbers on the buttdyno.

[GotSTI?]

This is encouraging.

[manticus]

Originally Posted by Digitalfiend

Here is a comparison:

2007 STI:
243 HP & 290LB-FT @ 4400 RPM
293 HP & 256LB-FT @ 6000 RPM

2008 STI:
221 HP & 290LB-FT @ 4000 RPM
305 HP & 267LB-FT @ 6000 RPM

Good point - here's some very basic geometric math for you to determine the area under the curver comparison... (ninja-texted the boring math stuff)

Assuming the graph is generically a straight line between the two points, let's compare the area under each graph, from 4400-6000.

2007 STI
Area under the torque graph from 4400-6000
= (1600 * 256) + (1600 * 34 / 2)
= 409600 + 27200
= 436800

Area under the HP graph from 4400-6000
= (1600 * 243) + (1600 * 50 / 2)
= 388800 + 40000
= 428800

2008 STI
(need to determine slope first y = mx + b)
For torque line: Y = -0.0115 X + 336
At 4400RPM, the engine would produce 285.4 tq
Area under the torque graph from 4400-6000
= (1600 * 267) + (1600 * 18.4 / 2)
= 427200 + 14720
= 441920

For HP line: Y = 0.042 X + 53
At 4400RPM, the engine would produce 237.8 hp
Area under the HP graph from 4400-6000
= (1600 * 237.8) + (1600 * 67.2 / 2)
= 380480 + 53760
= 434240

.... So, to compare:

Using these calculations, the 2008 STI has a 1.2% increase in torque and a 1.3% increase in HP through the 4400-6000 RPM range. Factor in a 12HP difference accounting for SAE corrections on the 2008 and you would adjust the HP increase to 5.7%. On a butt-dyno, a 5.7% increase would be very noticeable. Combined with only a small increase in weight, this could be very effective.

Of course, all this math work and it is still completely flawed because no torque/hp curve is straight and we can't see what happens pre-4400 RPM. Oh, and that other thing called "brake horsepower", that doesn't always translate into "wheel horsepower" on a perfect scale. Heh. Wasted time!

[mckman]

Using these calculations, the 2008 STI has a 1.2% increase in torque and a 1.3% increase in HP through the 4400-6000 RPM range. Factor in a 12HP difference accounting for SAE corrections on the 2008 and you would adjust the HP increase to 5.7%. On a butt-dyno, a 5.7% increase would be very noticeable. Combined with only a small increase in weight, this could be very effective.

The 2007 and 2008 numbers use the same SAE standard and are directly comparable.

The percentage increase at 6,000RPMs from 2007 to 2008 is 12/293 = 4.1% Should be noticeable, but not quite as much as 5.7%.

How did you get 5.7%?

Without the full plot of torque or horsepower it is hard to tell for sure, but the curves will likely cross at some point (at 4,400 for sure unless the torque curve of the 2008 is very flat). However, the AVCS will likely allow the 2008 STi to have a flatter torque curve overall, thus giving it more total area under the curve.

This is good for acceleration, but other factors such as weight (as you point out), gearing, electronic controls, etc. could wipe out or accentuate the gains in engine performance.

The new 18's aren't doing the 2008 any favors in straight line performance, although they should give more grip in the corners.

[JAYMAC10]

I'm guessing that no one knows the actual specs of the car yet... like what kind of Turbo they put in the sucker?

[Kirv]

Originally Posted by jaydow11

I'm guessing that no one knows the actual specs of the car yet... like what kind of Turbo they put in the sucker?

and can we use our 5 x 114.3 wheels on the 08? I assume we can but haven't seen the specs yet.

[JAYMAC10]

Haven't seen these pics before.... Can anyone tell what the goods are, meaning upgrades from the 07's.

I'm going to assume that those arn't forged pitsons/rods (or whatever you call them) or a bigger turbo....

What is that on the bottom right? One of the Dif's?

[manticus]

Originally Posted by mckman

The 2007 and 2008 numbers use the same SAE standard and are directly comparable.

The percentage increase at 6,000RPMs from 2007 to 2008 is 12/293 = 4.1% Should be noticeable, but not quite as much as 5.7%.

How did you get 5.7%?

Yeah, I got the 5.7% assuming that 2008 was corrected and 2007 was not - apparently not the case as you pointed out. The area under the "line" is only about 2% different then (as per the calculations).

But, as always, year over year dyno comparisons are completely unreliable anyhow. I own a '04 Saturn Redline and every year they claimed 205bhp numbers and this could range anywhere between 180whp to 220whp, depending on the ECU.

[sn00py]

2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STI
Five door body style w/ 6 speed manual transmission & VDC
The base MSRP on this model is $35,640.
The base invoice on this model is $33,655.

2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STI w/ BBS Pkg
Five door body style w/ 6 speed manual transmission & VDC
The base MSRP on this model is $37,640.
The base invoice on this model is $35,512

your welcome.

[Chiznarles]

good work man