Which to buy first: Downpipe or AP stage 1?

DSTI · 02-16-2006, 08:14 AM

Okay, let me say first real quick, I've been on here for a couple years and I know about the search button but I can't decide between the two of these. I have some Subie Bucks and have found a dealer that I can them on aftermarket parts. But I don't know what to buy with the $400.

Either a Helix catted DP or just go with the AP and pay the extra amount.

So far I just have a cat-back exhaust.

What would you do? Which one is more of a increase in the butt dyno?

Thanks in advance.

DSTI

DSTI · 02-16-2006, 08:16 AM

I just looked at my Sig and GOD I don't post really at all. 9??? lol

***nandanrp*** · 02-16-2006, 08:26 AM

Get the AP. You don't want to run a TBE (Downpipe + catback) without engine management. Well at least I don't, because of fears of running lean, boost creep (although EM won't cure creep), etc.

I just bought an AP and will be going stage 1...down the road I'll be purchasing a Cobb catted DP. When I do, I'll already have the AP, so it's just a matter of flashing to stage 2

From what I hear AP stage 1 will be noticable...stage 2 moreso.

**twiSTies** · 02-16-2006, 08:53 AM

Buy the AP first, run Stage 1.

DSTI · 02-16-2006, 08:58 AM

Thanks for the quick response.

I just have heard conflicting things about the AP stage 1. Some say that you can tell a differance. And others say that it's just a smoother output of power. I don't know which one to do.

I thought you can run a CATTED DP and cat-back and not get boost creep?

And some say that even with a DP and no engine management, that there will be a noticable differance.

I don't know...

***nandanrp*** · 02-16-2006, 09:10 AM

Even if you don't get boost creep with a catted TBE, I personally wouldn't want to risk running a TBE without EM, run lean and kill my engine...

I think you'll be able to feel it with Stage 1. I can't speak from my experience yet, as I haven't reflashed yet, but it turns up the boost...so I am guessing it will be noticable.

You will feel a difference with a TBE and no EM, but first of all you'll make more power by adding EM (and even more if you get protuned), and 2nd you're risking your motor in the event it runs lean.

I personally think it's a no-brainer, but it's your car man.

DSTI · 02-16-2006, 09:25 AM

You're right, man... I don't want to do anything harmful to the car and I definately don't want to take the wrong route just to save a few bucks.

I'm already pleased with the stock power with my cat-back. There's already enough (don't flame me when I say enough... lol... There's NEVER enough of anything) to enjoy with everyday driving so I'll need to re-think things. I just can't justify only stage 1 for $645 without getting a DP at the same time. And unfortunately, that's not in the budget at this time.

Maybe some springs...

jsh139 · 02-16-2006, 09:26 AM

Without engine management, a downpipe by itself might cause problems. Not only is the boost not turned up, but the boost cut <i>limit</i> is lower. So, your ECU may cut fuel and give you a check engine light if you go over the stock max boost level.

jsh139 · 02-16-2006, 09:30 AM

As for the AP, buy used! Here's one for $600 (a little high IMO):

FS - Cobb AccessPort for 2005 STi

**Chris05STi** · 02-16-2006, 10:00 AM

AP FOR SURE....def need that before the DP....you will love and so will your engine!

jays05 · 02-16-2006, 10:56 AM

What everybody else said... go with the AP first. You should be able to feel the difference - I did. Especially in the 3k-5k range.

jlp7t · 02-16-2006, 08:00 PM

The main advantage to the AP at stage 1 will be that it will let your boost come on much quicker. The stock ECU aims for 14.5 psi at 4k RPM, the AP will let you build boost as fast as the turbo can, which will make the car feel much more responsive in the low-mid range. Read about it here: http://reviews.hspn.com/articles/112...uck-on-The-STi

mofoSTI · 02-16-2006, 08:10 PM

If you go with the AP first it will gain about the same HP. Then when you get the down pipe you can go stage 2 and that is like doubble the amount of power for half the money ( rather than getting DP then AP ). Stage 2 is nutts btw.

VetteVert · 02-17-2006, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsh139

As for the AP, buy used! Here's one for $600 (a little high IMO):

FS - Cobb AccessPort for 2005 STi

Quite high...you can buy them for that new...shipped even.

VV

lokutus1 · 02-17-2006, 08:11 AM

+1 for getting ap first.

02-16-2006, 08:14 AM	#1
DSTI Junior STI Driver Car: 05 CGM STI Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 63 IWSTI Addict since: Oct 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Which to buy first: Downpipe or AP stage 1? Okay, let me say first real quick, I've been on here for a couple years and I know about the search button but I can't decide between the two of these. I have some Subie Bucks and have found a dealer that I can them on aftermarket parts. But I don't know what to buy with the $400. Either a Helix catted DP or just go with the AP and pay the extra amount. So far I just have a cat-back exhaust. What would you do? Which one is more of a increase in the butt dyno? Thanks in advance. DSTI This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

02-17-2006, 08:11 AM	#15
lokutus1 Spec C Club Car: 05 WRB WRX STi Fav Mod: FYI, I'm a dude Location: Burlington, MA Posts: 2,369 IWSTI Addict since: Mar 2005 Trader Rating: (10)	+1 for getting ap first. This ad is not endorsed by this member. Please register or login to hide this ad.

New To Site?	Need Help?	More
REGISTER FOR FREE! IWSTI Rules/Signature Rules Create a Member Journal Bookmark IWSTI Tell your friends about IWSTI	Frequently Asked Questions Did you forget your password? Make a suggestion or report a bug Mark Forums Read Contact Us	Member Journals Forum Pictures & Photography Forum GR Series (08+) Marketplace GD Series (03/04-07) Marketplace Hot eBay Deals Forum Beyond Off Topic

02-16-2006, 08:16 AM	#2
DSTI Junior STI Driver Car: 05 CGM STI Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 63 IWSTI Addict since: Oct 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	I just looked at my Sig and GOD I don't post really at all. 9??? lol

02-16-2006, 08:26 AM	#3
*nandanrp* Indiatr0n in yo IWDPL Car: 05FTW OBP STi Fav Mod: Brum Brum Location: downtown Chicago Posts: 48,821 IWSTI Addict since: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (11)	Get the AP. You don't want to run a TBE (Downpipe + catback) without engine management. Well at least I don't, because of fears of running lean, boost creep (although EM won't cure creep), etc. I just bought an AP and will be going stage 1...down the road I'll be purchasing a Cobb catted DP. When I do, I'll already have the AP, so it's just a matter of flashing to stage 2 From what I hear AP stage 1 will be noticable...stage 2 moreso.

02-16-2006, 08:53 AM	#4
twiSTies Gold Member Car: 05 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: T2s and Recaros Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 3,398 IWSTI Addict since: Oct 2005 Trader Rating: (7)	Buy the AP first, run Stage 1.

02-16-2006, 08:58 AM	#5
DSTI Junior STI Driver Car: 05 CGM STI Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 63 IWSTI Addict since: Oct 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	Thanks for the quick response. I just have heard conflicting things about the AP stage 1. Some say that you can tell a differance. And others say that it's just a smoother output of power. I don't know which one to do. I thought you can run a CATTED DP and cat-back and not get boost creep? And some say that even with a DP and no engine management, that there will be a noticable differance. I don't know...

02-16-2006, 09:10 AM	#6
*nandanrp* Indiatr0n in yo IWDPL Car: 05FTW OBP STi Fav Mod: Brum Brum Location: downtown Chicago Posts: 48,821 IWSTI Addict since: Jun 2004 Trader Rating: (11)	Even if you don't get boost creep with a catted TBE, I personally wouldn't want to risk running a TBE without EM, run lean and kill my engine... I think you'll be able to feel it with Stage 1. I can't speak from my experience yet, as I haven't reflashed yet, but it turns up the boost...so I am guessing it will be noticable. You will feel a difference with a TBE and no EM, but first of all you'll make more power by adding EM (and even more if you get protuned), and 2nd you're risking your motor in the event it runs lean. I personally think it's a no-brainer, but it's your car man.

02-16-2006, 09:25 AM	#7
DSTI Junior STI Driver Car: 05 CGM STI Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 63 IWSTI Addict since: Oct 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	You're right, man... I don't want to do anything harmful to the car and I definately don't want to take the wrong route just to save a few bucks. I'm already pleased with the stock power with my cat-back. There's already enough (don't flame me when I say enough... lol... There's NEVER enough of anything) to enjoy with everyday driving so I'll need to re-think things. I just can't justify only stage 1 for $645 without getting a DP at the same time. And unfortunately, that's not in the budget at this time. Maybe some springs...

02-16-2006, 09:26 AM	#8
jsh139 How YOU Doin? Car: 2006 Audi S4 Fav Mod: OMGHI2U! Location: Philly 'burbs Posts: 7,710 IWSTI Addict since: Apr 2004 Trader Rating: (8)	Without engine management, a downpipe by itself might cause problems. Not only is the boost not turned up, but the boost cut <i>limit</i> is lower. So, your ECU may cut fuel and give you a check engine light if you go over the stock max boost level.

02-16-2006, 09:30 AM	#9
jsh139 How YOU Doin? Car: 2006 Audi S4 Fav Mod: OMGHI2U! Location: Philly 'burbs Posts: 7,710 IWSTI Addict since: Apr 2004 Trader Rating: (8)	As for the AP, buy used! Here's one for $600 (a little high IMO): FS - Cobb AccessPort for 2005 STi

02-16-2006, 10:00 AM	#10
Chris05STi The Godfather of Meth Car: 2005 Subaru WRX STi Fav Mod: Every single one! Location: NJ Posts: 10,317 IWSTI Addict since: Jun 2005 Trader Rating: (30)	AP FOR SURE....def need that before the DP....you will love and so will your engine!

02-16-2006, 10:56 AM	#11
jays05 Spec C Club Car: Blue 05 STI Fav Mod: 4th gear wheelspin Location: Upstate NY Posts: 2,095 IWSTI Addict since: Nov 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	What everybody else said... go with the AP first. You should be able to feel the difference - I did. Especially in the 3k-5k range.

02-16-2006, 08:00 PM	#12
jlp7t Professional STI Driver Car: 04 Subaru WRX STi Location: McLean, VA Posts: 466 IWSTI Addict since: Dec 2003 Trader Rating: (0)	The main advantage to the AP at stage 1 will be that it will let your boost come on much quicker. The stock ECU aims for 14.5 psi at 4k RPM, the AP will let you build boost as fast as the turbo can, which will make the car feel much more responsive in the low-mid range. Read about it here: http://reviews.hspn.com/articles/112...uck-on-The-STi

02-16-2006, 08:10 PM	#13
mofoSTI S204 Racer Car: 08 STI,sr20det 510 Fav Mod: boob job for wife Location: springtuckey, OR Posts: 2,540 IWSTI Addict since: Sep 2004 Trader Rating: (0)	If you go with the AP first it will gain about the same HP. Then when you get the down pipe you can go stage 2 and that is like doubble the amount of power for half the money ( rather than getting DP then AP ). Stage 2 is nutts btw.