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limits of stock intake
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Old 01-11-17, 12:42 PM   #11
DaveC113
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Default Re: limits of stock intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by killerbmotorsport View Post
who are you and how did you get in here?

That's like saying I have too much money, or I have sex too much

Eh, I like the dual personality a turbo motor can have, doing downpipe + intake on a stock turbo takes that away to the point the turbo is always wanting to spool, even if you just want light acceleration to keep up with traffic. IMO, the stock turbo is too small after freeing up the intake and exhaust, I'd prefer a turbo that spools a bit later and has a lot more power.

Not sure why that seems strange, I'm not a teenager anymore and don't go WOT stoplight to stoplight like a retard.
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Old 01-11-17, 12:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: limits of stock intake

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Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
Not sure why that seems strange
because it's backward from typical STi social convention of wanting better response.

If you find the response too reactive, go up a gear when you're at speed or short shift . This would induce more lag, decreasing responsiveness.
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Old 01-11-17, 12:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: limits of stock intake

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Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
.....even if you just want light acceleration to keep up with traffic. IMO, the stock turbo is too small after freeing up the intake and exhaus......
Get it pro-tuned and have you tuner do a new throttle map. I did that and the car drive so smooth that it's like driving a NA car when I don't apply more than 30% pedal travel. I instructed my tuner to maintain a linear relationship between pedal travel and throttle opening before 30% pedal travel then accelerate throttle opening after 30% pedal travel.
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Old 01-11-17, 01:05 PM   #14
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Default Re: limits of stock intake

^ That's a great point since ~08 the throttle mapping got funky (IMO). Most good tuners will tweak them to bring back the more linear feel.

Also, with the VA gen, can you just run in I-mode to dial back the responsiveness?
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Old 01-11-17, 01:32 PM   #15
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Default Re: limits of stock intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by killerbmotorsport View Post
because it's backward from typical STi social convention of wanting better response.

If you find the response too reactive, go up a gear when you're at speed or short shift . This would induce more lag, decreasing responsiveness.
Well, the real issue is the space in between lugging and spooling is super narrow, you have to accelerate very slowly if you don't want the turbo to start spooling. Stock, you can accelerate normally/gently with no boost. Also, it's super easy to make it spool at low rpms/high gears on th3e highway which isn't ideal as far as excessive low rpm cylinder pressures.

I thought I'd like the responsiveness but to me it just feels like the turbo is way too small, it's like driving a turbo diesel. I think the car would probably be more efficient off-boost with a larger turbo, you can drive around town without boost and then get a lot more power when you actually want it, after downshifting and at higher rpms.

I mean, look at the stock power curve, it drops a good bit by redline indicating the turbo is already a bit on the small side, then freeing up intake and exhaust just make it even more obvious the car should have a larger turbo.

A friend of mine runs a Dom 3.5, it might be a little on the large side but it only spools 500rpm or so above stock while making tons more power... I'd pick something 50+ lb/min as my ideal turbo*.








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Old 01-11-17, 02:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: limits of stock intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by killerbmotorsport View Post

Also, with the VA gen, can you just run in I-mode to dial back the responsiveness?
I drive in i-mode most of the time, with cobbs stage 1 sf map, its smooth, only 8 psi, and fuel efficient.
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Old 01-11-17, 03:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: limits of stock intake

I went with a KStech 73mm intake when I went E85 tune a few years ago. Have never run OTS maps previously. Who knows if it makes a difference. Sounds pretty cool. I would say stock intake is adequate for most applications but aftermarket intakes are cheap enough that you don't feel like too much of a dic when they don't produce gains.
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Old 01-11-17, 04:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: limits of stock intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
Well, the real issue is the space in between lugging and spooling is super narrow, you have to accelerate very slowly if you don't want the turbo to start spooling. Stock, you can accelerate normally/gently with no boost. Also, it's super easy to make it spool at low rpms/high gears on th3e highway which isn't ideal as far as excessive low rpm cylinder pressures.

I thought I'd like the responsiveness but to me it just feels like the turbo is way too small, it's like driving a turbo diesel. I think the car would probably be more efficient off-boost with a larger turbo, you can drive around town without boost and then get a lot more power when you actually want it, after downshifting and at higher rpms.

I mean, look at the stock power curve, it drops a good bit by redline indicating the turbo is already a bit on the small side, then freeing up intake and exhaust just make it even more obvious the car should have a larger turbo.

A friend of mine runs a Dom 3.5, it might be a little on the large side but it only spools 500rpm or so above stock while making tons more power... I'd pick something 50+ lb/min as my ideal turbo*.








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I don't even know where to begin here lol. The issues of controlling spool in low rpm/high gear and lugging will greatly depend on your foot. Simple downshift can correct that. The general idea for forced induction I'm sure as you know is to get air into and out of the engine as quickly and efficiently as possible. Almost everyone that is interested in forced induction wants quick response, fast spool, and big power. Thats why we like boost, for that amazing power delivery feeling.

Having a current configuration stock sti with a large turbo will be like driving a bus. It would shift that power curve way up. If our cars stock spool up at give or take 3500rpm just imagine a large turbo on stock configuration. Just imagine hitting boost at 5000rpm, think about how fast you would have to be going anyway at 5,000rpms right before you get into boost. Most people do not cruise around 5,000rpms nor would you want to down shift the engine to get it to 5k just come alive. By adding a larger turbo to the car, you would really be taking away the quickness and pep that the sti has in its stock form. The car stock spools decently quick and is able to do quick enough to get out of plenty of quick thinking oh shit moments. Just imagine trying to get out of those moments when power doesn't come on until 5,000rpms.

Now your friend with the Dom 3.5, the reason that car spools so quick is because the car also has supporting mods for that turbo set up. Im sure that car isn't running stock size exhaust, headers, intake, cooling, and fueling systems. Im sure it has all aftermarket components that will complement the flow capacity of that turbo and help achieve its sweet spot in terms of power delivery. I would imagine a Dom 3.5 on a stock sti would be horrible lol. Maybe your fuel economy would go up considering that boost would be always out of reach but aggressive driving always finds a way.

Me personally, it would be cool to have a 500whp sti but not if I had to wait a light year before I got use it. I would much rather enjoy a quick spool 400whp sti that makes and delivers power quickly. Basically a spooliator and or EFR twin scroll set up. But hey, to each their own. Different strokes for different folks

And finally....To the OP:

Stock intake correct me if I'm wrong is good for about a basic stage 2. You should really speak to your tuner on what your limitations will be running a stock intake on his tunes. I've herd that the Cobb short ram intake is very very loud. I would imagine that a CAI intake will be a little quieter since the filter is in the fender but Its definitely not going to be as quiet as stock.

Last edited by Jay11STI; 01-11-17 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 01-11-17, 05:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: limits of stock intake

im at 412whp on stock intake speed density tune.
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Old 01-11-17, 08:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: limits of stock intake

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussellX View Post
...
Once you get a pro tune, stock intake limit is more than your stock turbo can handle.
I'll "kind of" disagree with this statement...to the extent that the stock intake upper is beyond what the stock turbo can handle. Once you're at a high level tune with the stock turbo, there are still potential gains(incremental perhaps, but gains nonetheless).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay11STI View Post
...
Stock intake correct me if I'm wrong is good for about a basic stage 2. You should really speak to your tuner on what your limitations will be running a stock intake on his tunes. I've herd that the Cobb short ram intake is very very loud. I would imagine that a CAI intake will be a little quieter since the filter is in the fender but Its definitely not going to be as quiet as stock.
I'll agree more with this statement...

Reason being that I stayed stock intake on my GD all these years, and (on same Mustang dyno and with same tuner) hit max 290/325 even with all my mods. But this was with keeping my car stealthy in mind (driving out to clients' houses, etc.).

Had the itch to get a little louder, and with a VA intercooler, Cobb SF intake, and Tomei Expreme (formerly Cobb exhaust w/ 3" mod) being the additional differences, was able to get up to 312/325 with a re-tune. As you can see, torque peak did not change, but instead of my plot "sloughing off" starting at 4500 rpm, these add'l mods kept nearly flat until 5300 rpm, and then began trending noticeably down....

for OP: Unless you want the noise and the whoosh, spending money on the Cobb SF intake probably isn't necessary until late in the upgrade game (stock turbo) IMO. You can't go wrong with the stock intake--hell it's included with the car LOL. There are bigger gains to be had elsewhere, so look at those first...
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