Why did I get this one over the other two populat models? For one I have heard of a ton of Mishimoto failures, and a few Koyo failures. Ron Davis seems to have a pretty good reputation.
The other reasons is because I wanted an oil cooler, but not an air-oil unit, but a coolant-oil one. This one has a built-in oil cooler (-10an fittings provided). It is supposed to bolt-in just like OEM.
Nice LittleBlueGT!!! I'm ordering one this summer! Lachute is making a custom Stainless Steel upper radiator tube for me, which will be paired to fit with the Ron Davis Radiator!
Did you order directly from them? I was quoted around $1500 CAD, so I'm intrigued to hear that you got it at $1000
Let us know how you like it
Are you going to run an AOS with the built-in oil cooler?
Talked with Julien (Julian, Julianio :lol about it. I beleive they were one of the shops that said they had issues with the cheaper rads, but it might have been someone else.
I was ordering like $7000 worth of stuff from KNS brakes, and Ken hooked me up with a deal, I think it was a bit less then a grand USD (which is like a million CAD :crying.
AOS as in Air Oil Seperator with the oil cooler, not sure how they are really related?
You use your sandwich adapter of choice (I will use a thermostatic one) and run custom lines to it. I might double up on it and still keep the OEM one in place, not entirely sure how I will do that yet.
I see, so you still have to use a sandwhich plate adapter where the oil filter sits. Ok makes a lot more sense now. FWIW, this is the setup that the Subaru Road Racing team used for their CTSCC STI. Was the first time I heard about Ron Davis Racing radiator with the built in oil cooler. But when I called up the staff they couldn't tell me exactly how the oil lines hooked up to the radiator so I never ordered one :rofl:. Would love to see how it performs for the weekend warrior. For now I'll make due with my Koyo radiator and OEM oil cooler.
It's great that companies are doing this, but it isn't theoretically any different than whats on the market currently. In fact, perrins oil cooler, has a temp gauge that allows it to enter only when it's reached optimum temp, thus allowing for you oil to heat quicker. You can get a koyo rad, perrin oil cooler, all fittings, 2 guages, a sandwich adapter, all new lines, for less than this radiator oil cooler combo.
Again, I like that there is developement, but the prices that some of these companies are charging is getting excessive.
You know Ron Davis list that as an auto trans oil cooler. Yes I understand it can be plumbed for engine oil cooling, but in my mind how efficient is that? I suspect it is similar to OEM type radiators in that a separate cooler is plumbed in the bottom of the radiator assembly.
I'm almost positive it'll be like the GM trans coolers and oil coolers on the side tanks of trucks etc. I think this product is geared more towards your weekend racer and daily driver than it is to the full on race nut.
Only testing will tell.
I know places like LIC do a 7/8 core with an air to oil cooler but I'm not sure if that's suitable for a daily driver. I know their GD version was FRO.
Nice radiator. Using another high end unit on our 05, but almost went with a R-D rad. It's a great piece and you got a really good price. A high end radiator costs twice as much as the more common rads most run, and there's good reason. They are significantly more efficient! You can use a smaller radiator that takes just as much abuse, or more.
On the oil cooler, I'd be tempted to keep the OEM one since it's more a heater than cooler and you need all the help you can get. Or, if you ditch it, get the highest temp thermostatic that you can.
I will keep the OEM one, just thinking about running a sandwich adapter on-top of (or underneath) the OEM one, I think I have enough space.
I will wait til lmy first couple of track-days, and see my oil temps. Now that I have two oil temps gauges (one in the sump, and one top of the block in a galley-plug) I will use them to assess what I need in the way of oil cooling. I will just use some expensive Motul V300 5w40 oil so I am safe for now.
Once I can comfortably keep my oil temps to 230ish then I will feel more comfortable running T6, even at the track.
(actually, I really want to see how my two oil-temps gauges read in the -25F to -30F range. I would love to be able to run your oil pan, so we will see.)
Ron Davis makes well built radiators. We run them in our 8 truck for racing the baja1000 ect. I had a cbr radiator built just like that for my frs I was very happy with the lowered temps on the track. Best part it the oil should run 220-230 with water under 200.
We use Jiffy-Tite fittings regularly. They are inexpensive and work well. Although, I wouldn't trust them on an unconnected high pressure circuit. That's not what they are intended for. A ball valve with Viton seals is pretty bullet proof. This is coming from a guy that also believes less is more. Which is why the ball valve makes more sense than a quick connect that has seals and springs on both ends of each connection. Ball valve is two seals, you only need one, costs a lot less, no drips when you disconnect (yes they do drip some), and it's one less thing to do.
Installed the rad last night. Couple things of note:
-it is easily 2-3 times as big as the stock rad (which is really really small in comparison).
-it is not quite 100% p-n-p, like they sais (is anything really???)
-I had to cut off about 3/4" off of both ends of the upper rad hose (it is very close to rubbing, but after a fairly hard drive last night) there are no signs of any rubbing).
-I had to cut about 1.25" off the lower rad hose (end that connects to rad)
-had to cut a bit off the the other smaller hoses that connect to the upper reservoir.
-things get close to the air-pump bracket, it pushes the overflow canister closer to the engine. But I think it will be fine. (I don't have an air-pump anymore, but still use that bracket as a FPR holder)
I heard before that a thicker rad will result in less cooling when the car is not moving, and that seems to be true. I had the car half in the garage last night after an installation lap, and the coolant temps went up to 212F and both fans ran for a long time to get it too drop back down to 195F. (outside temps were in the 30s F) Maybe not all the air was out of the system, but the AP displayed coolant temp seemed very stable???
I think there will be room to run the oil-coolant lines above the header and to a sandwich adapter. I will worry about that in a month or so.
A side point. Talked to the guys and RonDavis yesterday, and they said the sell a ton of these rads to the rally guys. (maybe they only just came out with it on the open market recently, IDK)
But apparently a coolant to oil cooler is much more efficient then an air-to-oil one, which I believe.
It apparently should have no issues bring oil down to within 20-30F of the coolant temps (so 230F max) without over cooling it. (not talking about -35 warm-up here)
I have heard of guys still having oil temps in the 240-250 range with an air-to-oil cooler (albeit tracking in the 90-100s).
Sounds right on track. Thicker radiator = less charge tube area (as a percentage) exposed to air. So without the airflow (parked) the transfer rate drops. I've also found the larger radiators run the fans longer because the thermal mass is bigger, which is the other side of the sword. The good news is, the OEM fans are REALLY good.
Bump for an update from OP. I may be looking into this radiator sooner than later myself. I'm currently running stock power with Koyo radiator 50/50 coolant mix and stock oil cooler. I hit 225 F temps on track after about 15 minutes, 82 F ambient. I imagine my oil temps are at least 30-40 F higher than that (if not more), so between 255 and 265 F, which is too hot for my liking. Ideally want my coolant temp to remain below 210 F.
Monitor your oil temps, you may be surprised at where they are.
225° coolant is 15° higher than I'd tolerate. You have a good fan and checked functionality? Also, reduce your mix to 80/20 or pure water for track use.
I have a track day coming up in two weeks, I'm going to revise my mix to 30% coolant / 70% water to see if that helps. I bought a bottle of redline water wetter but am hesitant to use it after I read about it causing black sludge. Strange how much temp a stock engine makes, I can't even imagine how much heat an engine making 400 rwhp+ makes...
LOL its been a long week man :lol:. But yes, the heat these engines make on track during a 20-25 min session is STAGGERING. Like I mentioned, with a 50/50 mix and Koyo Racing radiator, I hit 225 F, on stock power, in 82 F ambient temps, and that's with the inside heater on full blast cooking my feet and front windshield :rofl:
Careful with the old heater trick. I cracked my windshield doing that. Pulled into the pits after the last session of my day and let the car run for a bit with the AC on while I loaded up my gear and kapow windshield spider.
I always thought air to air coolers were more efficient especially since the temp of the oil increasing will actually increase the temp of the coolant which is the opposite of what you are trying to do.
Something to keep in mind when talking about air vs 'active' liquid coolers is transfer rates. Dictated by the transfer rate of the media and its delta. While a liquid to air cooler has lower transfer rate the delta is Hot-to-Ambient and an active liquid to liquid setup is Hot-to-Nearly Hot. For a street setup with excess cooling capacity the liquid setup should certainly take the edge off some oil temp peaks, but more importantly IMO is heating the oil so you can load the engine much sooner. For a track car (or any car pushed to its components limits) having separate dedicated and controlled systems will make them both more efficient, once up to temp and on boil.
For LittleBlue's environment and usage, I think he's got himself an ideal setup
Something to keep in mind when talking about air vs 'active' liquid coolers is transfer rates. Dictated by the transfer rate of the media and its delta. While a liquid to air cooler has lower transfer rate the delta is Hot-to-Ambient and an active liquid to liquid setup is Hot-to-Nearly Hot. For a street setup with excess cooling capacity the liquid setup should certainly take the edge off some oil temp peaks, but more importantly IMO is heating the oil so you can load the engine much sooner. For a track car (or any car pushed to its components limits) having separate dedicated and controlled systems will make them both more efficient, once up to temp and on boil.
For LittleBlue's environment and usage, I think he's got himself an idea setup
Q = mH CpH (THin - THout) = mC CpC (TCout - TCin), where
mH = mass flow rate of hot fluid, slugs/hr,
CpH = heat capacity of the hot fluid, Btu/slug-oF
mC = mass flow rate of cold fluid, slugs/hr,
CpC = heat capacity of the cold fluid, Btu/slug-oF,
The closer your dT gets, the slower your heat transfer, and the further apart the quicker it transfers heat.
Yes, liquid to liquid is more efficient, but cold air to hot liquid is going to be much more efficient because of the dT. So even though it is thicker, the Ron Davis Radiator may actually be heating your engine more than a cheapo mishi rad.
You can calculate it out pretty easy if you find all your unkowns.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
IW STi Forum
4.1M posts
121.3K members
Since 2001
A forum community dedicated to Subaru Impreza and STI owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, engine builds, exhaust, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!