Subaru Impreza WRX STI Forums: IWSTI.com

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-   -   *OFFICIAL* GR Piston Failures Thread - Collecting Data from All 2008+ STI owners (http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/152495-official-gr-piston-failures-thread-collecting-data-all-2008-sti-owners.html)

snowstorm 02-07-12 08:31 PM

Re: *OFFICIAL* GR Piston Failures Thread - Collecting Data from All 2008+ STI owners
 
THESE ARE NOT WEAK ENGINES! Flogging a little engine is super hard on the oil.
I think the majority of this thread stems from unrealistic expectations.
This isn't a typical car. There are two fundamental mistakes being made with our vehicles. Guys who keep them stock think they can drive them like Higgins & maintain them like a Buick. Guys who mod them are shocked when they fail & aren't covered by SOA.

The fact is for over ten years this platform, with late '90s technology, has held its own against expensive imports & muscle cars while meeting ever tightening emissions laws.
They are well engineered. Enthusiasts have wrung even more out of them until they've become legendary. But, they just don't have the potential to perform at the levels we're used to seeing on videos without serious financial outlay.

REALITY CHECK: These are former 2.5 liter, daily driven, econobox, four bangers that were turbo'd to do what was unheard of before their introduction. They are capable of a 50% power increase for many 1000s of miles WITH THE PROPER CARE. There are just too many people that are reliably running 350 whp for me to consider these engines pathetic.

COMPARISON: I have a work colleague who has just purchased a 370z that he can't track for more than 12 minutes because it overheats....now that's pathetic. They won't tell you about that little flaw at the Nissan dealership. 370z is a great autox buy, but on HPDE at minute 13 you'll find out who has the better car as you pass him.

The RX7 FDs were beautiful cars. Mod it, get a knock event & its over. Are they junk engines? Absolutely not. With the correct AFR they can rev out to 9k rpm & with a big turbo make close to 450awhp over 4500 rpm of their power band! But there are rules. Same with our engines. For those that don't like these rules, get a different platform.

OUR RESPONSIBILITY: I'm still early in the life of my engine. Work output from this car has probably been the equivalent of 40k miles on my Nissan Maxima. Therefore I check & change the oil more often than suggested as I'm no longer stock, have an OTS tune & drive it hard when appropriate ;).
i.e. My responsibility to monitor this engine rises as I ask more from it.
Fluids are the lifeblood of these vehicles. If you lack in anyone of them, it will cost you dearly! It's your job to check, modified or not!

BACK TO BASICS:
Are you logging knock events? Is your engine pulling timing? If so, do you know why & what are you doing different, now that you know?
Running high injector IDCs - maybe its time for a better fuel pump or injector upgrade.
Oil smelling like fuel - need an early change or some oil analysis?
What's your oil consumption rate - did you keep a log of usage vs driving style vs oil viscosity?
How's that intercooler look? - Did you forget an AOS on your stage 2 upgrade?
Datalogs look iffy - Protune may be needed.
Plugs the right temp selection?
Did you mess with the intake at all? - Did you retune for that?
Did you ask your tuner to max your mods out? -
Did you warm her up well before you pull out on the main road & get into it?
How's your AFR? What should it be? Are you using a wideband? Do you have a tuner with whom you can ask questions?
If you're adding parts or racing your stock car & don't have a grasp of the basics you're awfully vulnerable & SOA shouldn't have to pick up the tab for your ignorance.

MODDING RULE: You bolt after market stuff on your car, that aspect of your car is no longer under warranty. If you're not in the financial position to fork out the cash to rebuild your engine do NOT mod it. If you do mod it, I'd think it reasonable to perform routine condition monitoring.

BACK UP PLAN: When I upgraded my car I accepted the fact that if my engine fails it more than likely is as a result of what i've done, not what FHI did. If/when it fails, I won't like it, but I'm ready. You should be too.

STOCK CAR FAILURES: The folks that I really feel bad for are those who have a stock car, take proper care of it and take it to HPDE or autox & have failures due to the tune, oil pick ups breaking etc & told there's no warranty. That's not right in my opinion. However, racing a car without added gauges means running blind. Recording engine data from the OBDII is a must. If you're pushing a car, you cannot assume that the manufacturer has got everything perfect to make it bulletproof under those conditions. Datalogging is vital. I'll give SOA credit for backing up a bunch of folks who had gone stage 2 or more. IMHO, that's pretty commendable. Try that with an EVO.

POWER WITH A WARRANTY: You want big horsepower with a warranty, get a new Z06. You'll love it....insurance premiums are rough though, especially on the younger guys. And that cuts to the heart of the matter...a lot of guys own an STI because they can't afford the Z06/Porsche/M3/etc. IF you can't afford the Z; you probably can't afford the consequences of STI mods gone wrong or of sloppy maintenance.

That said, I hope you guys get past these issues & can enjoy your cars again!

Tobamory 02-08-12 04:13 AM

Re: *OFFICIAL* GR Piston Failures Thread - Collecting Data from All 2008+ STI owners
 
What a great post and bang on the nail.

Fly'n Brian 02-09-12 09:30 PM

Re: *OFFICIAL* GR Piston Failures Thread - Collecting Data from All 2008+ STI owners
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by snowstorm (Post 3484722)
THESE ARE NOT WEAK ENGINES! Flogging a little engine is super hard on the oil.
I think the majority of this thread stems from unrealistic expectations.
This isn't a typical car. There are two fundamental mistakes being made with our vehicles. Guys who keep them stock think they can drive them like Higgins & maintain them like a Buick. Guys who mod them are shocked when they fail & aren't covered by SOA.

The fact is for over ten years this platform, with late '90s technology, has held its own against expensive imports & muscle cars while meeting ever tightening emissions laws.
They are well engineered. Enthusiasts have wrung even more out of them until they've become legendary. But, they just don't have the potential to perform at the levels we're used to seeing on videos without serious financial outlay.

REALITY CHECK: These are former 2.5 liter, daily driven, econobox, four bangers that were turbo'd to do what was unheard of before their introduction. They are capable of a 50% power increase for many 1000s of miles WITH THE PROPER CARE. There are just too many people that are reliably running 350 whp for me to consider these engines pathetic.

COMPARISON: I have a work colleague who has just purchased a 370z that he can't track for more than 12 minutes because it overheats....now that's pathetic. They won't tell you about that little flaw at the Nissan dealership. 370z is a great autox buy, but on HPDE at minute 13 you'll find out who has the better car as you pass him.

The RX7 FDs were beautiful cars. Mod it, get a knock event & its over. Are they junk engines? Absolutely not. With the correct AFR they can rev out to 9k rpm & with a big turbo make close to 450awhp over 4500 rpm of their power band! But there are rules. Same with our engines. For those that don't like these rules, get a different platform.

OUR RESPONSIBILITY: I'm still early in the life of my engine. Work output from this car has probably been the equivalent of 40k miles on my Nissan Maxima. Therefore I check & change the oil more often than suggested as I'm no longer stock, have an OTS tune & drive it hard when appropriate ;).
i.e. My responsibility to monitor this engine rises as I ask more from it.
Fluids are the lifeblood of these vehicles. If you lack in anyone of them, it will cost you dearly! It's your job to check, modified or not!

BACK TO BASICS:
Are you logging knock events? Is your engine pulling timing? If so, do you know why & what are you doing different, now that you know?
Running high injector IDCs - maybe its time for a better fuel pump or injector upgrade.
Oil smelling like fuel - need an early change or some oil analysis?
What's your oil consumption rate - did you keep a log of usage vs driving style vs oil viscosity?
How's that intercooler look? - Did you forget an AOS on your stage 2 upgrade?
Datalogs look iffy - Protune may be needed.
Plugs the right temp selection?
Did you mess with the intake at all? - Did you retune for that?
Did you ask your tuner to max your mods out? -
Did you warm her up well before you pull out on the main road & get into it?
How's your AFR? What should it be? Are you using a wideband? Do you have a tuner with whom you can ask questions?
If you're adding parts or racing your stock car & don't have a grasp of the basics you're awfully vulnerable & SOA shouldn't have to pick up the tab for your ignorance.

MODDING RULE: You bolt after market stuff on your car, that aspect of your car is no longer under warranty. If you're not in the financial position to fork out the cash to rebuild your engine do NOT mod it. If you do mod it, I'd think it reasonable to perform routine condition monitoring.

BACK UP PLAN: When I upgraded my car I accepted the fact that if my engine fails it more than likely is as a result of what i've done, not what FHI did. If/when it fails, I won't like it, but I'm ready. You should be too.

STOCK CAR FAILURES: The folks that I really feel bad for are those who have a stock car, take proper care of it and take it to HPDE or autox & have failures due to the tune, oil pick ups breaking etc & told there's no warranty. That's not right in my opinion. However, racing a car without added gauges means running blind. Recording engine data from the OBDII is a must. If you're pushing a car, you cannot assume that the manufacturer has got everything perfect to make it bulletproof under those conditions. Datalogging is vital. I'll give SOA credit for backing up a bunch of folks who had gone stage 2 or more. IMHO, that's pretty commendable. Try that with an EVO.

POWER WITH A WARRANTY: You want big horsepower with a warranty, get a new Z06. You'll love it....insurance premiums are rough though, especially on the younger guys. And that cuts to the heart of the matter...a lot of guys own an STI because they can't afford the Z06/Porsche/M3/etc. IF you can't afford the Z; you probably can't afford the consequences of STI mods gone wrong or of sloppy maintenance.

That said, I hope you guys get past these issues & can enjoy your cars again!

Sounds like a Subaru employee defending their shoddy engineering.

LaW 02-09-12 09:47 PM

Re: *OFFICIAL* GR Piston Failures Thread - Collecting Data from All 2008+ STI owners
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fly'n Brian (Post 3487502)
Sounds like a Subaru employee defending their shoddy engineering.

I don't know, I do agree with a lot of what he posted there.

bassolis 02-10-12 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaW (Post 3487510)
I don't know, I do agree with a lot of what he posted there.

I agree also.

Snow633 02-14-12 06:22 PM

Re: *OFFICIAL* GR Piston Failures Thread - Collecting Data from All 2008+ STI owners
 
No failure here. 2011 STi been stage 1.5 since 1000 miles. Just did a compression test at 10,000 miles and had 140psi on all cylinders (think it may have been higher than that but it took me about an our just to get all the plugs out) No oil burning either (rotella T6 since 500 miles)

jwalker72 02-17-12 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowstorm (Post 3484722)
THESE ARE NOT WEAK ENGINES! Flogging a little engine is super hard on the oil.
I think the majority of this thread stems from unrealistic expectations.
This isn't a typical car. There are two fundamental mistakes being made with our vehicles. Guys who keep them stock think they can drive them like Higgins & maintain them like a Buick. Guys who mod them are shocked when they fail & aren't covered by SOA.

The fact is for over ten years this platform, with late '90s technology, has held its own against expensive imports & muscle cars while meeting ever tightening emissions laws.
They are well engineered. Enthusiasts have wrung even more out of them until they've become legendary. But, they just don't have the potential to perform at the levels we're used to seeing on videos without serious financial outlay.

REALITY CHECK: These are former 2.5 liter, daily driven, econobox, four bangers that were turbo'd to do what was unheard of before their introduction. They are capable of a 50% power increase for many 1000s of miles WITH THE PROPER CARE. There are just too many people that are reliably running 350 whp for me to consider these engines pathetic.

COMPARISON: I have a work colleague who has just purchased a 370z that he can't track for more than 12 minutes because it overheats....now that's pathetic. They won't tell you about that little flaw at the Nissan dealership. 370z is a great autox buy, but on HPDE at minute 13 you'll find out who has the better car as you pass him.

The RX7 FDs were beautiful cars. Mod it, get a knock event & its over. Are they junk engines? Absolutely not. With the correct AFR they can rev out to 9k rpm & with a big turbo make close to 450awhp over 4500 rpm of their power band! But there are rules. Same with our engines. For those that don't like these rules, get a different platform.

OUR RESPONSIBILITY: I'm still early in the life of my engine. Work output from this car has probably been the equivalent of 40k miles on my Nissan Maxima. Therefore I check & change the oil more often than suggested as I'm no longer stock, have an OTS tune & drive it hard when appropriate ;).
i.e. My responsibility to monitor this engine rises as I ask more from it.
Fluids are the lifeblood of these vehicles. If you lack in anyone of them, it will cost you dearly! It's your job to check, modified or not!

BACK TO BASICS:
Are you logging knock events? Is your engine pulling timing? If so, do you know why & what are you doing different, now that you know?
Running high injector IDCs - maybe its time for a better fuel pump or injector upgrade.
Oil smelling like fuel - need an early change or some oil analysis?
What's your oil consumption rate - did you keep a log of usage vs driving style vs oil viscosity?
How's that intercooler look? - Did you forget an AOS on your stage 2 upgrade?
Datalogs look iffy - Protune may be needed.
Plugs the right temp selection?
Did you mess with the intake at all? - Did you retune for that?
Did you ask your tuner to max your mods out? -
Did you warm her up well before you pull out on the main road & get into it?
How's your AFR? What should it be? Are you using a wideband? Do you have a tuner with whom you can ask questions?
If you're adding parts or racing your stock car & don't have a grasp of the basics you're awfully vulnerable & SOA shouldn't have to pick up the tab for your ignorance.

MODDING RULE: You bolt after market stuff on your car, that aspect of your car is no longer under warranty. If you're not in the financial position to fork out the cash to rebuild your engine do NOT mod it. If you do mod it, I'd think it reasonable to perform routine condition monitoring.

BACK UP PLAN: When I upgraded my car I accepted the fact that if my engine fails it more than likely is as a result of what i've done, not what FHI did. If/when it fails, I won't like it, but I'm ready. You should be too.

STOCK CAR FAILURES: The folks that I really feel bad for are those who have a stock car, take proper care of it and take it to HPDE or autox & have failures due to the tune, oil pick ups breaking etc & told there's no warranty. That's not right in my opinion. However, racing a car without added gauges means running blind. Recording engine data from the OBDII is a must. If you're pushing a car, you cannot assume that the manufacturer has got everything perfect to make it bulletproof under those conditions. Datalogging is vital. I'll give SOA credit for backing up a bunch of folks who had gone stage 2 or more. IMHO, that's pretty commendable. Try that with an EVO.

POWER WITH A WARRANTY: You want big horsepower with a warranty, get a new Z06. You'll love it....insurance premiums are rough though, especially on the younger guys. And that cuts to the heart of the matter...a lot of guys own an STI because they can't afford the Z06/Porsche/M3/etc. IF you can't afford the Z; you probably can't afford the consequences of STI mods gone wrong or of sloppy maintenance.

That said, I hope you guys get past these issues & can enjoy your cars again!

Sounds like very level headed and well thought out post.

snowstorm 02-18-12 09:00 AM

Re: *OFFICIAL* GR Piston Failures Thread - Collecting Data from All 2008+ STI owners
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fly'n Brian (Post 3487502)
Sounds like a Subaru employee defending their shoddy engineering.

I guess my post might sound like that of a SOA employee but I can assure you I'm not. I'm not a fan of cool-aid either.

SOA doesn't have shoddy engineering. In stock form the JDM STI complies with its build premise. Because Americans really didn't like the lack of torque of the 2.0 boxer WRX, FHI tried to grow market share by giving us the 2.5 engine. Look at what we got!!! As the CAFE standards 'worsened' the factory tune was tweaked as was the exhaust. If SOA was guilty of anything it was continuing to import a performance car with low end drivability under ever more stringent emissions governance. That decision left them with little near term option but to 'tighten' the tune or rush an unproven engine to the market (God forbid).

Since the 2007 Supreme Court CO2 ruling, FHI & SOA have been busy.

Obama's new tightened CAFE requirements demanding 35.5mpg average by 2016 will more than likely kill off the STI as we know it. Hence SOA's need to abandon AWD, use a DI 2.0 liter engine, & lighten the car...resulting in the BRZ & the new engines for the Impreza.

I love the car we have now. It seats 4. Hauls all kinds stuff. Its fast & getting faster all the time.

Tobamory 02-19-12 06:45 AM

Re: *OFFICIAL* GR Piston Failures Thread - Collecting Data from All 2008+ STI owners
 
my god i just looked up that Z06

512 hp 7.0 Litre LS7 V8 engine

85000 UK pennies
Id need a petrol station to run that beast.
Wow it even has a perfomance Package for another 11k LOL whats that give me

Fuel consumption: urban12.3 mpgFuel consumption: extra-urban28.2 mpgFuel consumption: combined19.2

12.3 MPG no thanks well not in the UK. The Scooby is as low as i,ll go, maybe one day i,ll push the boat out for a Black Edition Nissan GTR, or i may get super OLD and get a 5 series BMW

I do however like the sound of the new GM Ampera 318 MPG more like it :)

blargle 02-19-12 02:04 PM

Re: *OFFICIAL* GR Piston Failures Thread - Collecting Data from All 2008+ STI owners
 
Eloquent post, but large bore and short stroke on a 20 year engine platform, detonation prone design, and soft pistons equals a weak motor. Out of 6 local guys with an EJ25, 4 of them had failures.. some stock, some protuned. I'd consider a strong 4 cylinder to be something like a Honda B-Series (alumunum block, capable of 500whp stock), EJ207, or or 4G63.


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