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Have you had Ringland Failures?

*OFFICIAL* GR Piston Failures Thread - Collecting Data from All 2008+ STI owners

273K views 2K replies 289 participants last post by  Dozer888 
#1 · (Edited)
***DISCLAIMER***
Please disregard the Yes/No Poll in this thread as that is not the "Survey". Take the numbers with a grain of salt. Assuming 2500-3000 STIs sold annually from 2008+ and the small sample rate it is likely that the risk of failure is low. Just educate yourself on this motor and it's weak points and address those weak points based on the intended use of the vehicle.

***Failures on stock engines that have had warranty denied***
If you have any year STI and have experienced a failer due to piston rings, file a complaint with NHTSA. Here is the link: Do your part and maybe Subaru of America will start standing behind their cars instead of putting owners through hardship. It is not so much a safety concern but if Subaru does not cover your motor with a warranty and it is stock we should be filing some complaint somewhere.

Office of Defects Investigation (ODI), File A Safety Complaint



Survey is closed

Results:
***UPDATE 2/1/2012****


Just as a quick check on my survey, out of 117 responses to failures, 23 of those were 2nd failures from the same user name so I removed those (some of those blew from a built engine with aftermarket turbo etc....)

So out of 94 failures on my survey since I started this survey in January 2009 keep in mind...

91% occurred prior to 30k miles, 54% before 15k miles

57% covered under warranty (54), 27% not covered

Out of 94 responses, 17 more were reported in addition that have had more than one failure but I cannot confirm their user names to see if they responded more than once. So if I work the numbers to look better, my survey showed 77 to 94 unique persons have suffered failures from the 117 reported. So 23 - 40 that had more than 1 failure which honestly could be from a large number of reasons. (Installation, not finding existing damage, bad built motor (which really should be removed if it wasn't subaru replacing it).

52 of the 94 reported occurred with BUILD DATES before September 2008... 36 occurred with build dates from October 2009 to Present. So out of 94, 52 were in the first year of production... Something to think about.

13 of the cars were part of the ECU recall in the early build dates and did not get the reflash, while the rest of those build dates did.

42 of the 94 were either Stock, or Stock with the ECU recall flash. (Again who knows what damage was already done before the reflash)

36 failures occurred on cars that were Stage 2 or higher, At least another 10-15 occurred from Stage 1 modifications (tune).

29 Failures occurred while using 91 octane fuel

1 on 87 octane (Throw that one out? )

4 didn't know what octane they used (scary! )

41 Cars participated in some form of racing (Autocross, Lapping days, etc)

43 Reports claimed to have hit the rev limiter numerous times

Again take it for what it is. A not very accurate summary of failures that have been reported on a website on the internet over the course of 3 years... If you consider how many GR STI are on the road, knowing that on this survey alone the majority of the failures came on the first year of production I am not too concerned by this thread.

But again I can throw out numbers and at the end of the day it is only worth what you want it to be worth. People will always have their opinions. I can sort through the results more and I could easily remove those that had reported modifications that are above Stage 2 (we are talking some of these failures that were running e85, or 400+hp) It is not a big surprise some cars failed.
 
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#289 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

I will be reaching out to some of people that I know have had issues to get this started.
I think it should be noted that technically they did not warranty mine. They reimbursed me the $11k+ it cost to get a new assembly line engine put in, as a "goodwill" gesture after learning I'd bought 5 new Subarus in 3 years.

They won't be so kind on my second popped engine, I'm sure. I'm sure it's another broken ringland as it did the smoking and oil consumption thing and whichever cylinder is closest to the driver's feet is doing 75 psi while all the others are doing 140. There's also a coolant and oil leak on the curbside of the engine.
 
#3 ·
#196 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

Build date: 11/07
Vin 8: 8L820836
Which one: piston #2
Notes:

We have a thread on it here: http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-liter-litre-factory-motor/130134-another-dead-piston.html

I would also like to point out that the rings were gapped a bit on the small side when we put them back into the factory bores, and mesured.
Gapped on the small side?!?

That sure would contribute to a broken ringland when they expand enough to butt up the ends and try to keep expanding.
 
#4 ·
#6 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

Same here.
 
#10 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

Jeff Perrin just caught the leaking sound on start up, so now I am off to Subaru to get a compression test. sucks. I will report more asap.
Sorry to hear that. Let us know what you find out for sure. I would also be curious to know who you take it to and how they dealt with the issue (Carr, Wentworth, etc...).
 
#8 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

I was able to contact about 6 or 7 users that I could recall and will look at that thread again (thats where I got most of my names already).

I have a feeling that this may not bring us the results we hope for because even the 09 WRX seem to be having similar failures but its worth a shot.

I have 2 responses so far.
 
#11 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

I've had a theory about this for a while and wanted to bring it up to see if you can add it to your research.

Do we know whether the failures are more common with A bore vs B bore pistons? Is there a trend that piston #4 (which seems to be the one that fails more frequently than others) is more often one bore than another?

Like I said, it's just a theory I've had for a while since I started reading about all this. I don't know how many people who've experienced failures even know what the bore was on the faulty piston.
 
#12 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

I've had a theory about this for a while and wanted to bring it up to see if you can add it to your research.

Do we know whether the failures are more common with A bore vs B bore pistons? Is there a trend that piston #4 (which seems to be the one that fails more frequently than others) is more often one bore than another?

Like I said, it's just a theory I've had for a while since I started reading about all this. I don't know how many people who've experienced failures even know what the bore was on the faulty piston.
Yeah I think you will be hard pressed to find people that have that information.
 
#13 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

Do we really need to include VIN's?

I think it would be interesting to know if the car was stock or not, the mileage of the car when diagnosed, and if they replaced the entire shortblock or just the pistons. I've PM'ed my info.
 
#14 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

I think the last 6 digits are helpful... why not? I guess the build date is good enough as well but any information I can get.

I am not as intrested in modifications because we have seen that it has happend with stock cars with few miles, stock with many, modded cars with few and modded cars with many. But if it will help I can add it to the list I guess.
 
#15 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

09/2007
828210
Piston #4
4,700 miles
Cobb Stage 1 for 4,000 miles
Piston and supporting parts


Car is going back in this week because I am smelling oil at startup, along with smoke and burning a good amount of oil.

Compression test is getting done AGAIN, on Tuesday. No CEL yet, this time but im pretty positive either #4 is off again or another is going out.
 
#17 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

09/2007
828210
Piston #4
4,700 miles
Cobb Stage 1 for 4,000 miles
Piston and supporting parts


Car is going back in this week because I am smelling oil at startup, along with smoke and burning a good amount of oil.

Compression test is getting done AGAIN, on Tuesday. No CEL yet, this time but im pretty positive either #4 is off again or another is going out.
Are you sure its 828210 and not 820210? Just verifying
 
#16 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

Thank you, sorry to hear of your problems. I have about 6 people recorded and still waiting for a few more details from them. So far they are all from September through December 07 builds.
 
#21 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

Thank you, I will be posting a more Official thread in a day or 2 with an ongoing update of the list for everyone to have access to. :)
 
#24 · (Edited)
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

Thanks for compiling all of this. It's somewhat disappointing that there really is no rhyme or reason with these. At first, I was thinking more that if it doesn't go within the first 5K miles or so, that you may be ok, but now we see that cars with 10K+ miles on the clock are also going kaboom with or without an AP. Its really hard to say/guess what the issue is now, perhaps more than ever. If its faulty pistons and the strength/quality is questionable, seems like they can go at any time.
 
#25 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

I am somewhat relieved so far that it appears to be early Production months but I am still waiting on additional data. Figure some of the motors popping now may have been sitting on the lot since Feb or earlier...

Mine was in Dec 07 and I have about 4 of those on the list and within 200 units of a few but I am running 14k+ miles with oil analysis each oil change. I am about to go Stage 2 myself. Its hard to say what it could be...

I am curious if production tolerances were loosened more at some point? who knows...

What I have noticed so far is that there are NOT that many on this site as many make it out to be. You have to figure a lot of the failures will end up over here when they go on the internet and search for the subject.

We should make this a stick up top or we should just create a new thread.
 
#26 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

I hear ya Law, my production date is Feb '08, and I'm right on the line with going Stage 2 or not, but am still somewhat uncertain at this point, especially after seeing the 2 cars with 10k+ miles. I may just end up doing a CBE and suspension and shortshifter, other little goodies for now, track a few more times, and then go stage 2 later in this summer after I feel a little better about things. This way, if something goes wrong, SOA won't have much to stand on with a CBE for any repair denial.
 
#27 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

I hear ya Law, my production date is Feb '08, and I'm right on the line with going Stage 2 or not, but am still somewhat uncertain at this point, especially after seeing the 2 cars with 10k+ miles. I may just end up doing a CBE and suspension and shortshifter, other little goodies for now, track a few more times, and then go stage 2 later in this summer after I feel a little better about things. This way, if something goes wrong, SOA won't have much to stand on with a CBE for any repair denial.

Luckily we have 60k miles :) haha Don't get me wrong though, I still drive the car as I would with or without hearing about these problems. We are still talking ~1% of all 08/09 STI's produced. So good odds that you won't have a problem.
 
#30 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

My compression test after the piston replacement shows everything is all good. Now stage 2 with a tune and HM Intake. A bit more fun. Still feels slow though :(

Are you 100% sure on the VIN you gave me with that build date? Seems a little high and out of order with the rest?

Good to hear that everything feels good! Did you get to dyno the new setup?
 
#33 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

I posted in his thread, hope to hear from him.

Again, I don't think the numbers are THAT high. There is definately a problem, you would be blind if you couldn't admit it but it could really be ANYTHING.
 
#34 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

Build Date: don't know
Last 6 digits of your VIN Number (Sequential production number):coming soon
Which Piston failed you: Number 4. It got a 95 on the test. The rest were 140-150
Miles on the car at failure 12,500
Modded or not Modded: Cat back only.
Replaced Entire Shortblock or Piston: yet to be decided. I had to have Perrin run a compression test because my dealer didn't want to waste the time and money...
 
#35 ·
Re: GR Owners that have had Piston Failures - Please Read (Collecting Data)

Build Date: don't know
Last 6 digits of your VIN Number (Sequential production number):coming soon
Which Piston failed you: Number 4. It got a 95 on the test. The rest were 140-150
Miles on the car at failure 12,500
Modded or not Modded: Cat back only.
Replaced Entire Shortblock or Piston: yet to be decided. I had to have Perrin run a compression test because my dealer didn't want to waste the time and money...
same with me, since there was no CEL they refused to do a compression check so i was forced to put out my own money to find that cylinder 2 was low. They wound up replacing the piston, said there was no damage to cylinder walls...would have liked to have a new short block since they just dropped in a new piston and god only knows how that is gonna hold up in there.
 
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